Free: Contests & Raffles.
Thats it in a nutshell......go with Agenda 21 and move everyone out of rural areas....almost all of historic winter range is full of ranches and homes.....and worse.
Quote from: AspenBud on May 12, 2014, 06:29:43 AMQuote from: wolfbait on May 12, 2014, 05:31:06 AMSince the beginning of the wolf issue on W-H, the agenda driven pro-wolfers have touted more habitat is needed, my question is, why haven't they ever been for better predator control and more hunting to control game herds. Why is there such a push for more habitat? And now I wonder why they are pushing back so hard on questions concerning the use of public lands when hunting petters out? ID do you think there will ever be public trapping or public hunting with hounds to control cougars/bears in WA? Idaho uses all three methods to control predators. Maybe you could explain to me why you think WA won't see a huge impact on its game herds with out of control predators? Wacoyote doesn't seem to think WA has a cougar problem yet either, even though some counties are showing increasing cougar problem each year. Do you think it has to do with wolves driving the cats down, or is it because there are just too many cougars. Maybe not enough game for the amount of predators WA now has.How long will it take for WDFW to recognize the predator problems, will WA end up looking like the Lolo elk herd? Will WDFW suddenly leap to their feet with amazement and claim it's climate change?Again, you can't expect WDFW to do bring back trapping and hound hunting when the people at the ballot box made it illegal. The people of Idaho never did that.You need to depart your small world and convince the general public and not just people on hunting forums. You also need to stop with the conspiracy theories, the people who matter aren't buying it and in fact you're arguably hurting the predator management cause with it.I'm sure if WDFW really wanted to "manage" predators more efficiently they could. You say I am hurting the predator management cause, do I have that much pull with WDFW? What conspiracy theories? I ask what will WDFW and the environmentalists do with all the land they are buying when uncontrolled predators curtail hunting. It's a question, A-bud.
Quote from: wolfbait on May 12, 2014, 05:31:06 AMSince the beginning of the wolf issue on W-H, the agenda driven pro-wolfers have touted more habitat is needed, my question is, why haven't they ever been for better predator control and more hunting to control game herds. Why is there such a push for more habitat? And now I wonder why they are pushing back so hard on questions concerning the use of public lands when hunting petters out? ID do you think there will ever be public trapping or public hunting with hounds to control cougars/bears in WA? Idaho uses all three methods to control predators. Maybe you could explain to me why you think WA won't see a huge impact on its game herds with out of control predators? Wacoyote doesn't seem to think WA has a cougar problem yet either, even though some counties are showing increasing cougar problem each year. Do you think it has to do with wolves driving the cats down, or is it because there are just too many cougars. Maybe not enough game for the amount of predators WA now has.How long will it take for WDFW to recognize the predator problems, will WA end up looking like the Lolo elk herd? Will WDFW suddenly leap to their feet with amazement and claim it's climate change?Again, you can't expect WDFW to do bring back trapping and hound hunting when the people at the ballot box made it illegal. The people of Idaho never did that.You need to depart your small world and convince the general public and not just people on hunting forums. You also need to stop with the conspiracy theories, the people who matter aren't buying it and in fact you're arguably hurting the predator management cause with it.
Since the beginning of the wolf issue on W-H, the agenda driven pro-wolfers have touted more habitat is needed, my question is, why haven't they ever been for better predator control and more hunting to control game herds. Why is there such a push for more habitat? And now I wonder why they are pushing back so hard on questions concerning the use of public lands when hunting petters out? ID do you think there will ever be public trapping or public hunting with hounds to control cougars/bears in WA? Idaho uses all three methods to control predators. Maybe you could explain to me why you think WA won't see a huge impact on its game herds with out of control predators? Wacoyote doesn't seem to think WA has a cougar problem yet either, even though some counties are showing increasing cougar problem each year. Do you think it has to do with wolves driving the cats down, or is it because there are just too many cougars. Maybe not enough game for the amount of predators WA now has.How long will it take for WDFW to recognize the predator problems, will WA end up looking like the Lolo elk herd? Will WDFW suddenly leap to their feet with amazement and claim it's climate change?
Quote from: JLS on May 12, 2014, 08:04:37 AMAll the summer range in the world is useless without unfragmented migration corridors and winter range.Thats it in a nutshell......go with Agenda 21 and move everyone out of rural areas....almost all of historic winter range is full of ranches and homes.....and worse.
All the summer range in the world is useless without unfragmented migration corridors and winter range.
Quote from: AspenBud on March 28, 2014, 10:25:54 AMQuote from: wolfbait on March 27, 2014, 02:56:32 PMQuote from: AspenBud on March 27, 2014, 10:10:56 AMQuote from: wolfbait on March 26, 2014, 11:51:33 PMOne way to do that is to increase the endangered list by a record 757 new species by 2018. Two species with the greatest impact on private development are range birds, the greater sage grouse and the lesser prairie chicken. Among the environmental groups who specialize in using the Endangered Species Act are the Wildlife Guardians and the Center for Biological Diversity who have been party to more than one thousands lawsuits between 1900 and the present. The Center has made no secret of wanting to end fossil-fuel production in the U.S.Like I said Wolfbait, where were you before the wolf? You don't give one hoot about "the end of hunting" unless it applies to the animals you like to hunt.Actually Aspenbud, I didn't know too much about the ESA until the wolves, since then I have learned quite a bit as have several others. I guess the fraud of the wolf introduction has alerted several about the ESA, EPA, DOE and the crooks that run them. What we are seeing here on W-H are those who support crooks also support the wolves that were Illegally introduced. My guess is you know right from wrong, but the agenda and $$$$ means more.What I see here is a double standard. You go railing against wolves and belly ache about how it is supposed end to all hunting and then turn around and effectively say "the hell with upland birds if it messes with my land or grazing rights." Upland bird hunters talk about hunting sage grouse and prairie chickens because they don't know how much longer they'll be able to. Why? Because their habitat is disappearing thanks to development and the grazing practices of some ranchers on leases further degrades what's there. To be fair, a number of ranchers have gotten religion and started working with people trying to save the birds, but for anyone to single out these birds, birds that people like to hunt, because it interferes with their property rights just tells me that they don't really care about what happens to hunting. They care about their pocket book or political ideology.Well, there's no double-standard in this thread that I can see. No one's talking about upland birds except for you, so that's way out of left field. And, since it sounds like you don't know the facts, I'll give one to you; licensed hunters have NEVER caused the extinction of an animal in the US, ever. So, have your rant that has nothing to do with anyone at all. We'll go back to talking about greenies who are using the ESA to forward their extreme agendas.
Quote from: wolfbait on March 27, 2014, 02:56:32 PMQuote from: AspenBud on March 27, 2014, 10:10:56 AMQuote from: wolfbait on March 26, 2014, 11:51:33 PMOne way to do that is to increase the endangered list by a record 757 new species by 2018. Two species with the greatest impact on private development are range birds, the greater sage grouse and the lesser prairie chicken. Among the environmental groups who specialize in using the Endangered Species Act are the Wildlife Guardians and the Center for Biological Diversity who have been party to more than one thousands lawsuits between 1900 and the present. The Center has made no secret of wanting to end fossil-fuel production in the U.S.Like I said Wolfbait, where were you before the wolf? You don't give one hoot about "the end of hunting" unless it applies to the animals you like to hunt.Actually Aspenbud, I didn't know too much about the ESA until the wolves, since then I have learned quite a bit as have several others. I guess the fraud of the wolf introduction has alerted several about the ESA, EPA, DOE and the crooks that run them. What we are seeing here on W-H are those who support crooks also support the wolves that were Illegally introduced. My guess is you know right from wrong, but the agenda and $$$$ means more.What I see here is a double standard. You go railing against wolves and belly ache about how it is supposed end to all hunting and then turn around and effectively say "the hell with upland birds if it messes with my land or grazing rights." Upland bird hunters talk about hunting sage grouse and prairie chickens because they don't know how much longer they'll be able to. Why? Because their habitat is disappearing thanks to development and the grazing practices of some ranchers on leases further degrades what's there. To be fair, a number of ranchers have gotten religion and started working with people trying to save the birds, but for anyone to single out these birds, birds that people like to hunt, because it interferes with their property rights just tells me that they don't really care about what happens to hunting. They care about their pocket book or political ideology.
Quote from: AspenBud on March 27, 2014, 10:10:56 AMQuote from: wolfbait on March 26, 2014, 11:51:33 PMOne way to do that is to increase the endangered list by a record 757 new species by 2018. Two species with the greatest impact on private development are range birds, the greater sage grouse and the lesser prairie chicken. Among the environmental groups who specialize in using the Endangered Species Act are the Wildlife Guardians and the Center for Biological Diversity who have been party to more than one thousands lawsuits between 1900 and the present. The Center has made no secret of wanting to end fossil-fuel production in the U.S.Like I said Wolfbait, where were you before the wolf? You don't give one hoot about "the end of hunting" unless it applies to the animals you like to hunt.Actually Aspenbud, I didn't know too much about the ESA until the wolves, since then I have learned quite a bit as have several others. I guess the fraud of the wolf introduction has alerted several about the ESA, EPA, DOE and the crooks that run them. What we are seeing here on W-H are those who support crooks also support the wolves that were Illegally introduced. My guess is you know right from wrong, but the agenda and $$$$ means more.
Quote from: wolfbait on March 26, 2014, 11:51:33 PMOne way to do that is to increase the endangered list by a record 757 new species by 2018. Two species with the greatest impact on private development are range birds, the greater sage grouse and the lesser prairie chicken. Among the environmental groups who specialize in using the Endangered Species Act are the Wildlife Guardians and the Center for Biological Diversity who have been party to more than one thousands lawsuits between 1900 and the present. The Center has made no secret of wanting to end fossil-fuel production in the U.S.Like I said Wolfbait, where were you before the wolf? You don't give one hoot about "the end of hunting" unless it applies to the animals you like to hunt.
One way to do that is to increase the endangered list by a record 757 new species by 2018. Two species with the greatest impact on private development are range birds, the greater sage grouse and the lesser prairie chicken. Among the environmental groups who specialize in using the Endangered Species Act are the Wildlife Guardians and the Center for Biological Diversity who have been party to more than one thousands lawsuits between 1900 and the present. The Center has made no secret of wanting to end fossil-fuel production in the U.S.
Quote from: pianoman9701 on March 28, 2014, 10:35:09 AMQuote from: AspenBud on March 28, 2014, 10:25:54 AMQuote from: wolfbait on March 27, 2014, 02:56:32 PMQuote from: AspenBud on March 27, 2014, 10:10:56 AMQuote from: wolfbait on March 26, 2014, 11:51:33 PMOne way to do that is to increase the endangered list by a record 757 new species by 2018. Two species with the greatest impact on private development are range birds, the greater sage grouse and the lesser prairie chicken. Among the environmental groups who specialize in using the Endangered Species Act are the Wildlife Guardians and the Center for Biological Diversity who have been party to more than one thousands lawsuits between 1900 and the present. The Center has made no secret of wanting to end fossil-fuel production in the U.S.Like I said Wolfbait, where were you before the wolf? You don't give one hoot about "the end of hunting" unless it applies to the animals you like to hunt.Actually Aspenbud, I didn't know too much about the ESA until the wolves, since then I have learned quite a bit as have several others. I guess the fraud of the wolf introduction has alerted several about the ESA, EPA, DOE and the crooks that run them. What we are seeing here on W-H are those who support crooks also support the wolves that were Illegally introduced. My guess is you know right from wrong, but the agenda and $$$$ means more.What I see here is a double standard. You go railing against wolves and belly ache about how it is supposed end to all hunting and then turn around and effectively say "the hell with upland birds if it messes with my land or grazing rights." Upland bird hunters talk about hunting sage grouse and prairie chickens because they don't know how much longer they'll be able to. Why? Because their habitat is disappearing thanks to development and the grazing practices of some ranchers on leases further degrades what's there. To be fair, a number of ranchers have gotten religion and started working with people trying to save the birds, but for anyone to single out these birds, birds that people like to hunt, because it interferes with their property rights just tells me that they don't really care about what happens to hunting. They care about their pocket book or political ideology.Well, there's no double-standard in this thread that I can see. No one's talking about upland birds except for you, so that's way out of left field. And, since it sounds like you don't know the facts, I'll give one to you; licensed hunters have NEVER caused the extinction of an animal in the US, ever. So, have your rant that has nothing to do with anyone at all. We'll go back to talking about greenies who are using the ESA to forward their extreme agendas. Passanger Pigeon maybe
wolfy I'm not against predator management. I am against anybody or anyone that advocates against public lands. Just like Id, Mt, Wy...Washington- even without wolf trapping/hunting will not see some statewide decimation of deer and elk. There have been wolves down in SE wa for years, yet there are still large deer and elk herds. Even if wolf numbers increase there will still be lots of deer and elk hunting...in fact, down in SE where public land is very limited its not running out of game that concerns me...its running out of places to hunt that will cause the demise of hunting! Aspen is spot on...not you individually wolfy, but the many folks like you running around with your conspiracy theories and crazy talk is the most detrimental thing to hunting in washington. You just don't understand the politics of washington. If guys like aspen and wacoyote and jls were who all those west siders saw/heard when they went to the ballot box we probably would still have hound hunting/baiting in WA...sadly its always the crazies who get the press and so its wolfy type folks who those non-hunting voters see and hear before they vote
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but I certainly don't see it as Agenda 21. I don't see any push to move people out of these areas. Rather, I see an attempt to maintain at least some of the integrity of these wintering areas. The tactics of WDFW are no different than those of Montana FWP, Idaho F&G, Wyoming G&F, and the RMEF.
WA does not need any corridors, WDFW needs to manage predators like they do the game herds, have liberal hunting seasons on them with multiple tags-IDFG-now realize they don't have a habitat problem they have a predator problem. My guess is when the predators put the game herds in a predator pit the environmentalists-WDFW will insist that it is because there are no corridors. Which is total BS, because WA now has more habitat then it did before WDFW started protection predators. After seeing WDFW's wolf plan anyone should be able to see the connection. I'm sure ID, and his followers will jump on this as more conspiracy theories. It does not surprise me at all, as I have seen them do the same when anyone mentions the USFWS and WDFW planting wolves.
Quote from: wolfbait on May 12, 2014, 12:07:49 PMWA does not need any corridors, WDFW needs to manage predators like they do the game herds, have liberal hunting seasons on them with multiple tags-IDFG-now realize they don't have a habitat problem they have a predator problem. My guess is when the predators put the game herds in a predator pit the environmentalists-WDFW will insist that it is because there are no corridors. Which is total BS, because WA now has more habitat then it did before WDFW started protection predators. After seeing WDFW's wolf plan anyone should be able to see the connection. I'm sure ID, and his followers will jump on this as more conspiracy theories. It does not surprise me at all, as I have seen them do the same when anyone mentions the USFWS and WDFW planting wolves. wolfy-go read bearpaws link on IDFG elk management plan regarding the lolo herd. they state they have predator AND habitat problems very clearly. If you don't think there are habitat issues in the lolo you are clueless.And yes, wolfy, you are spouting more conspiracy bs. WDFW has never transplanted wolves. They migrated in naturally from Idaho and neighboring states. This is just another one of your perpetual lies for which you can only explain through massive cover-up and conspiracy because there is not one shred of evidence that wdfw transplanted any wolves. It didn't happen...get over it and go back to figuring out where they are hiding the aliens at area 51 or whatever it is you do when your not on this forum lying about wolves.
Quote from: idahohuntr on May 12, 2014, 12:36:44 PMQuote from: wolfbait on May 12, 2014, 12:07:49 PMWA does not need any corridors, WDFW needs to manage predators like they do the game herds, have liberal hunting seasons on them with multiple tags-IDFG-now realize they don't have a habitat problem they have a predator problem. My guess is when the predators put the game herds in a predator pit the environmentalists-WDFW will insist that it is because there are no corridors. Which is total BS, because WA now has more habitat then it did before WDFW started protection predators. After seeing WDFW's wolf plan anyone should be able to see the connection. I'm sure ID, and his followers will jump on this as more conspiracy theories. It does not surprise me at all, as I have seen them do the same when anyone mentions the USFWS and WDFW planting wolves. wolfy-go read bearpaws link on IDFG elk management plan regarding the lolo herd. they state they have predator AND habitat problems very clearly. If you don't think there are habitat issues in the lolo you are clueless.And yes, wolfy, you are spouting more conspiracy bs. WDFW has never transplanted wolves. They migrated in naturally from Idaho and neighboring states. This is just another one of your perpetual lies for which you can only explain through massive cover-up and conspiracy because there is not one shred of evidence that wdfw transplanted any wolves. It didn't happen...get over it and go back to figuring out where they are hiding the aliens at area 51 or whatever it is you do when your not on this forum lying about wolves.19000 head of elk in the Yellowstone before the wolf introduction, slaughtered down to 4000 by 2010. Was it habitat or wolves? or climate change? I would think even someone as quick as you are can figure out what the changed was. And as you and WDFW claim all the wolves migrated into WA, trotted through several miles of prime elk country to settle a few miles out of Twisp WA. Yep, Yep, Yep. Nothing slow about you at all. all day long.
Quote from: wolfbait on May 12, 2014, 03:49:31 PMQuote from: idahohuntr on May 12, 2014, 12:36:44 PMQuote from: wolfbait on May 12, 2014, 12:07:49 PMWA does not need any corridors, WDFW needs to manage predators like they do the game herds, have liberal hunting seasons on them with multiple tags-IDFG-now realize they don't have a habitat problem they have a predator problem. My guess is when the predators put the game herds in a predator pit the environmentalists-WDFW will insist that it is because there are no corridors. Which is total BS, because WA now has more habitat then it did before WDFW started protection predators. After seeing WDFW's wolf plan anyone should be able to see the connection. I'm sure ID, and his followers will jump on this as more conspiracy theories. It does not surprise me at all, as I have seen them do the same when anyone mentions the USFWS and WDFW planting wolves. wolfy-go read bearpaws link on IDFG elk management plan regarding the lolo herd. they state they have predator AND habitat problems very clearly. If you don't think there are habitat issues in the lolo you are clueless.And yes, wolfy, you are spouting more conspiracy bs. WDFW has never transplanted wolves. They migrated in naturally from Idaho and neighboring states. This is just another one of your perpetual lies for which you can only explain through massive cover-up and conspiracy because there is not one shred of evidence that wdfw transplanted any wolves. It didn't happen...get over it and go back to figuring out where they are hiding the aliens at area 51 or whatever it is you do when your not on this forum lying about wolves.19000 head of elk in the Yellowstone before the wolf introduction, slaughtered down to 4000 by 2010. Was it habitat or wolves? or climate change? I would think even someone as quick as you are can figure out what the changed was. And as you and WDFW claim all the wolves migrated into WA, trotted through several miles of prime elk country to settle a few miles out of Twisp WA. Yep, Yep, Yep. Nothing slow about you at all. all day long.Those elk in Yellowstone were going to die one way or another be it by expanded hunting or by wolves. That was always intended and never a secret.You like to post up this article and that article quite frequently about how far wolves travel and how quickly they reproduce and yet you want to act surprised that they are in Twisp? That people just had to drop them off? Give me a break.
"WDFW has never transplanted wolves." Call me a skeptic, but after living and working in the Methow for 30+ years and knowing some of the "goings on" I would disagree with the above quote.I'll say this, Its nice to know "people" who work and live in the "outdoors" NOT just on a 9 to 5 , Monday thru Friday routine!! and have eye's and ear's
