Private Timberlands Charging for Access. What's next? What can we do?

[t6]

Interesting to see we have some new posters here.  How many work for Weyco?   

I've said my peace....raise their taxes to reflect the property is now recreational.  If they don't like it, they can close it down.  If they close it down, take away their extra permits they use to limit the number of bears and other predators they have. 

Its not a dead issue because its big timber.  All we have to do is fight. 

How do you eat an elephant?  One bite at a time. 

I wont buy a permit. 

[skidynastar33]

I started this topic so we could come together and come up with some ideas to fight this and do something. I am amazed at how much you fellow hunters want to just argue and fight on here like it's doing any good? It amazes me even more how many of you are fine with just bending over and taking it over and over again. How bout next year the price goes to 500$, then $1000. When will it stop?? The answer is when you want it to stop. All you got to do is do something about it. If hunters were more united we could get a lot more productive things done to improve our chances.
Thank you fireweed and humptulips and a few others for actually giving ideas!!

[idahohuntr]

I think the state should find a way to not allow the harvest of the publicly owned wildlife on private timberlands for corporate profit.  Carve out the timber company land into special units and shut down all hunting so access permits have little or no value.  Let Big Timber do whatever the hell they want with their land, except they will not be profiting off of the public's wildlife while they get huge tax breaks and other public benefits.  Enough is enough....this in no way infringes on private property rights and with the surplus of animals on the timber ground they will increase populations on the non-timber ground that is accessible to the public.  Win-win.  Oh, and if the timber company starts to call wdfw and complain about wildlife damage...put them on speaker phone so the whole office can join in on the hysterical laughing!    

[longwalker]

I started this topic so we could come together and come up with some ideas to fight this and do something. I am amazed at how much you fellow hunters want to just argue and fight on here like it's doing any good? It amazes me even more how many of you are fine with just bending over and taking it over and over again. How bout next year the price goes to 500$, then $1000. When will it stop?? The answer is when you want it to stop. All you got to do is do something about it. If hunters were more united we could get a lot more productive things done to improve our chances.
Thank you fireweed and humptulips and a few others for actually giving ideas!!

i would love it if the prices went up. just thin out the *censored* bags even more and give these company's more incentive to keep the tree farms instead of selling to tribes. the whole get angry at "big timber " sure sounds a lot like the enviro terrorist cry of death to "big oil" or the anarchist and 99%ers blood lust for "big industry"

humptulips, funny how your first reaction to me parking in your yard was wanting to charge me a fee. i thought that was the evil of "big timber" and that right to manage your property how you see fit should be abolished. interesting

[MADMAX]

When I firsted started to hunt there at ST helens near kid valley Weyerhauser had free maps to show tree damaged areas
They wanted us there
Now the meth-heads, vandalism and trash dumping has brought it to this.
very sad
It used to be the go to spot for my group for elk archery.

[NWHydroprint]

For those who think this is a westside problem only or this is a great idea you are sadly misinformed.
1) Rural economies benefit from hunters and fisherman coming in from Aug-Jan. This is going to cost small towns jobs.
2) It might seem that you will have a better experience for a year or 2 but the real goal will to be lease big tracts of land to private clubs or other corporations.
3) $150.00-$200.00 is not a lot of money but when it starts to cost $1000.00 a year or $10000.00 how many can really afford that?
4) Displaced hunters will be hunting state land and eastern WA how long will it take before these herds are at critical points?
5) Alot of these timberland were deeded to big timber by the state or traded to them for small parcels to expand towns and cities this is why there is a lot of state land that is landlock behind there gates.
6) If they change there business structure from solely timber harvest to recreation also why should they not pay taxes like other business in the state?
7) How much money does the WDFW pay timber companies for animal damage? Maybe we shouldn't be at all.
Why are we allowing these corporations to hire our state WDFW employees and equipment to patrol their land? What in it for the people of WA?
   The list could go on and on but bottom line we as hunters will suffer in the end whether you are in favor of this now or not I bet that the Timber companies at some point will go to the WDFW and ask that they be allowed to sell Deer and Elk permits for hunting on their land and if this does happen remember that for a $150.00-$250.00 access to hunt was a bargain

[Humptulips]

I started this topic so we could come together and come up with some ideas to fight this and do something. I am amazed at how much you fellow hunters want to just argue and fight on here like it's doing any good? It amazes me even more how many of you are fine with just bending over and taking it over and over again. How bout next year the price goes to 500$, then $1000. When will it stop?? The answer is when you want it to stop. All you got to do is do something about it. If hunters were more united we could get a lot more productive things done to improve our chances.
Thank you fireweed and humptulips and a few others for actually giving ideas!!

i would love it if the prices went up. just thin out the *censored* bags even more and give these company's more incentive to keep the tree farms instead of selling to tribes. the whole get angry at "big timber " sure sounds a lot like the enviro terrorist cry of death to "big oil" or the anarchist and 99%ers blood lust for "big industry"

humptulips, funny how your first reaction to me parking in your yard was wanting to charge me a fee. i thought that was the evil of "big timber" and that right to manage your property how you see fit should be abolished. interesting

You don't get it do you? I didn't want to charge you for camping. The issue is paying twice. We are already paying for access to tree farms through a tax break and then they turn around and charge. So what do we get for the tax break now?
I have the feeling you'll be perfectly happy to be the only hunter until the price gets to high or HSUS tries to outlaw hunting and then you'll wonder why nobody is around to help you stop them from taking away your right to hunt.

[logger]

hump, I have a question because I don't know all the ins and outs, but when it comes time to harvest and they pay the timber tax I was under the assumption that was to make up the difference in the lower tax rate. Am I on the wrong track?

[Landowner]

I've said my peace....raise their taxes to reflect the property is now recreational.  If they don't like it, they can close it down.  If they close it down, take away their extra permits they use to limit the number of bears and other predators they have.   

They will shut it down.  And if property taxes get raised because of retribution by counties pressured by hunters who feel they have some inherent right to hunt wherever they want---even though they don't own the timber land---then the timber company will pass on the cost of increased taxes to the consumers.  That's how it works----consumers will pay more for the wood products needed and desired in today's world. 

Or, maybe the timber companies instead break their ground up into 20 or 40  cabin sites and sell them, perhaps thousands of them.  Those private parcel owners will need roads to get to those cabin sites, and elk don't like roads.   And there goes the "open space". 

150 bucks sounds like a smoking hot deal to me compared to hunting in Texas and other states on private ground.  But even better, how about the hundreds of thousands of acres of public ground owned by the state and feds that are open for hunting.  Some of the nicest elk and deer I've seen in the Blues have come off the abundant public grounds available for hunting and recreation.   

[t6]

If they shut it down completely, then they would only be Timberlands and should be taxed as such.  If the build cabins, sell permits or leases..... they should be charged for having recreational property.          Thats all thats being said.   

[buckfvr]

Dont look for it to ever get better..................the signs of the future.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

It seems that the big timber companies have already been thinning the herd with their herbacides that have been over dosed in many areas. They are seeing lower populations thanks to the lack of forage for the wildlife leading to malnutrition which leads to lower tolerance to disease, like hoof rot and hairloss syndrome.

Then there's the things dying you don't even think about like bees. Bees are responsible for your food production.

[fireweed]

I started this topic so we could come together and come up with some ideas to fight this and do something. I am amazed at how much you fellow hunters want to just argue and fight on here like it's doing any good? It amazes me even more how many of you are fine with just bending over and taking it over and over again. How bout next year the price goes to 500$, then $1000. When will it stop?? The answer is when you want it to stop. All you got to do is do something about it. If hunters were more united we could get a lot more productive things done to improve our chances.
Thank you fireweed and humptulips and a few others for actually giving ideas!!

i would love it if the prices went up. just thin out the *censored* bags even more and give these company's more incentive to keep the tree farms instead of selling to tribes. the whole get angry at "big timber " sure sounds a lot like the enviro terrorist cry of death to "big oil" or the anarchist and 99%ers blood lust for "big industry"

humptulips, funny how your first reaction to me parking in your yard was wanting to charge me a fee. i thought that was the evil of "big timber" and that right to manage your property how you see fit should be abolished. interesting

You don't get it do you? I didn't want to charge you for camping. The issue is paying twice. We are already paying for access to tree farms through a tax break and then they turn around and charge. So what do we get for the tax break now?
I have the feeling you'll be perfectly happy to be the only hunter until the price gets to high or HSUS tries to outlaw hunting and then you'll wonder why nobody is around to help you stop them from taking away your right to hunt.

We are not already paying for access through a tax break. You really need to spend some time understanding the tax laws before making statements like this. They are taxed at the rate they are because they have produced and follow a timber harvest plan. And this is all that is required of them to receive that tax rate.

Timber plans aren't needed for large parcels and aren't stated anywhere in state law as the "reason" for the reduced tax rate.  I think you might be thinking about two other classifications (open space-open space) and (open space-timberland).  The open space timberland is for small (less than 20 acres) pieces and does in most counties need a plan.

Open space-open space is for areas without logging and has what is called a weighted benefit system where you get so much (say 10%) reduction in taxable value for each public benefit on your land--public access can get you part of that reduction.  So this idea of less taxes for public access is already being used in that category.

[fireweed]

hump, I have a question because I don't know all the ins and outs, but when it comes time to harvest and they pay the timber tax I was under the assumption that was to make up the difference in the lower tax rate. Am I on the wrong track?

The 5% state excise tax that is levied on the value of logs at harvest is not to compensate for a low PROPERTY tax, it is for the value of the Timber that has been on that property without any tax for the time it was growing.  When homeowners pay property taxes a county places value of your land AND then has a separate value for your house or other improvement , but you have to pay on the value of BOTH every year.  Trees are treated differently.

Because timber takes so long to grow, and can have a really high value, for tax purposes they have separated the trees from the land.  What we've been discussing for changing only affects the land value, not the trees no matter what their value may be.  If you never log, you never pay any tax on the trees no matter their value. 

[Humptulips]

Just to be 100% clear you pay the timber excise tax whenever you harvest trees. It doesn't matter if your land is a tree farm or a lot in the city.