WDFW's "Final Solution": Euthanize Severely Affected Elk

[Bob33]

since it does not affect the meat

I wouldn't feel too confident about that statement if I were you, idahohuntr.  This from the National Center for Biotechnology Information.  Published in 2011.  Remember that atrazine is one of the most commonly sprayed chemicals in our forests.

"The statistically significant difference between atrazine concentration in the serum and urine samples of the study and control groups indicated that atrazine in the feed ingredients ingested by cattle could be transferred in to the biological samples and could be a potential hazard for human health."

Can't see why elk or deer that've been eating this stuff would be any safer than cattle.  Here's the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481744/

Well then wouldn't that make EVERY elk around there tainted and unsafe? Not just the hoof rot elk?

sent from my typewriter

Not just "around there".

"Atrazine is not very volatile, reactive or flammable but dissolves readily in water and has been heavily used throughout the world especially applied to corn, sorghum and sugar cane (4). Atrazine usage have been increasing steadily since the 1960’s to the level of about 64 to 80 million 1bs each year in the United States, making it one of the two most widely used pesticides in that country (3)."

[jongosch]

since it does not affect the meat

I wouldn't feel too confident about that statement if I were you, idahohuntr.  This from the National Center for Biotechnology Information.  Published in 2011.  Remember that atrazine is one of the most commonly sprayed chemicals in our forests.

"The statistically significant difference between atrazine concentration in the serum and urine samples of the study and control groups indicated that atrazine in the feed ingredients ingested by cattle could be transferred in to the biological samples and could be a potential hazard for human health."

Can't see why elk or deer that've been eating this stuff would be any safer than cattle.  Here's the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481744/

Well then wouldn't that make EVERY elk around there tainted and unsafe? Not just the hoof rot elk?

sent from my typewriter

I would say that any elk that's been ingesting significant quantities of these chemicals is potentially tainted or unsafe to eat, whether or not they have hoof rot.  That's my opinion, but ultimately it's your body.  Everybody has to make their own decision on what they belief is safe at this point. 

[grundy53]

since it does not affect the meat

I wouldn't feel too confident about that statement if I were you, idahohuntr.  This from the National Center for Biotechnology Information.  Published in 2011.  Remember that atrazine is one of the most commonly sprayed chemicals in our forests.

"The statistically significant difference between atrazine concentration in the serum and urine samples of the study and control groups indicated that atrazine in the feed ingredients ingested by cattle could be transferred in to the biological samples and could be a potential hazard for human health."

Can't see why elk or deer that've been eating this stuff would be any safer than cattle.  Here's the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481744/

Well then wouldn't that make EVERY elk around there tainted and unsafe? Not just the hoof rot elk?

sent from my typewriter

Not just "around there".

"Atrazine is not very volatile, reactive or flammable but dissolves readily in water and has been heavily used throughout the world especially applied to corn, sorghum and sugar cane (4). Atrazine usage have been increasing steadily since the 1960’s to the level of about 64 to 80 million 1bs each year in the United States, making it one of the two most widely used pesticides in that country (3)."

I understand. I was just trying to make a point.

sent from my typewriter

[snowpack]

Atrazine is banned in the European Union.

[Bob33]

since it does not affect the meat

I wouldn't feel too confident about that statement if I were you, idahohuntr.  This from the National Center for Biotechnology Information.  Published in 2011.  Remember that atrazine is one of the most commonly sprayed chemicals in our forests.

"The statistically significant difference between atrazine concentration in the serum and urine samples of the study and control groups indicated that atrazine in the feed ingredients ingested by cattle could be transferred in to the biological samples and could be a potential hazard for human health."

Can't see why elk or deer that've been eating this stuff would be any safer than cattle.  Here's the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481744/

Well then wouldn't that make EVERY elk around there tainted and unsafe? Not just the hoof rot elk?

sent from my typewriter

Not just "around there".

"Atrazine is not very volatile, reactive or flammable but dissolves readily in water and has been heavily used throughout the world especially applied to corn, sorghum and sugar cane (4). Atrazine usage have been increasing steadily since the 1960’s to the level of about 64 to 80 million 1bs each year in the United States, making it one of the two most widely used pesticides in that country (3)."

I understand. I was just trying to make a point.

sent from my typewriter

Right. And not just elk. It would found in all wild herbivores near areas that are sprayed. It's in drinking water also.

"As of 2001, Atrazine was the most commonly detected pesticide contaminating drinking water in the United States."

[bbarnes]

Anyone one ever look up the term THEFT BY DECEPTION ? Pretty much is what's going on here.

[idahohuntr]

since it does not affect the meat

I wouldn't feel too confident about that statement if I were you, idahohuntr.  This from the National Center for Biotechnology Information.  Published in 2011.  Remember that atrazine is one of the most commonly sprayed chemicals in our forests.

"The statistically significant difference between atrazine concentration in the serum and urine samples of the study and control groups indicated that atrazine in the feed ingredients ingested by cattle could be transferred in to the biological samples and could be a potential hazard for human health."

Can't see why elk or deer that've been eating this stuff would be any safer than cattle.  Here's the link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481744/

Anyone who has purchased a hunting license ,and special permits have just been RIPPED OFF. WDFW has repeatedly told us hunters,these ELK are safe to eat B S.There no way this is contained to the hoof area,it's in there blood stream period.Ive said from day one this is a HEALTH AND SAFETY ISSUE to the public.Now I would like to know when they kill this infinite number of elk,if they will do any toxin test?I also will be warning all food banks,about the chance that these elk may have LEPTOSPIROSIS.All of us sportsman should be FURIOUS about the lack of leadership and being lied to.Any WDFW employee who has been part of the F ed up mess should be fired.If they had done this in the winter after hunting season, it would be a lot easier for some sportsman.But before we go out to hunt,and have spent our hard earned cash that's not alright.

This is one of the big issues I have with these hoof rot threads.  You guys confuse multiple issues together and blame WDFW haphazardly for all of it.

WDFW is trying to manage elk and determine the cause of hoof rot, which it looks like they are making significant progress on.  The elk with hoof rot are as safe to eat as the elk without hoof rot.  They are all probably as safe to eat as the livestock produced in those areas...maybe safer!

Your concerns about toxins in the environment is a global environmental concern that should be the responsibility of the EPA.  If you believe there are too many toxins in the environment (I don't disagree) then I think you need to be lobbying the EPA to restrict emissions, pollutants, herbicides, pesticides, fertilizer etc...now there will likely be some serious potential short-term economic harm by these increased federal regulations, but that is where your energy should be focused if you feel the meat of herbivores (both wild and domestic) is unsafe to consume in SW Washington. 

You guys frequently, without evidence, want to pin hoof rot directly on herbicide application and the evidence just doesn't support that theory.  Again, you appear to be trying to use a specific issue (hoof rot in elk) to push a global environmental concern that you have.  Which I have no issue with...less toxins would be better in the environment than more toxins...but using this hoof rot issue as your scape goat and blaming WDFW for it is just not logical. 

The closest connection I see is if this treponeme? bacteria has a life cycle that is favored by herbicide application in some way...but if we can't get past some of this non-sense of herbicide application being a direct cause of hoof rot how will we ever get after the root causes of hoof rot...which may well have nothing to do with herbicide application?  You're blinded by your desire to pin all of this on herbicide application and some of you clearly are not looking at this objectively which is a huge hindrance to solving complex problems.

[Coastal_native]

I don't understand why an animal with a debilitating bacterial infection would be deemed safe to eat, especially considering they're still not even sure they've correctly diagnosed the problem. 

Anyone who has frustrations over this is surely justified. 

[idahohuntr]

I don't understand why an animal with a debilitating bacterial infection would be deemed safe to eat, especially considering they're still not even sure they've correctly diagnosed the problem. 

Anyone who has frustrations over this is surely justified.

Livestock with hoof diseases of all types are slaughtered and consumed...deemed safe by the USDA 

[jongosch]

The elk with hoof rot are as safe to eat as the elk without hoof rot.  They are all probably as safe to eat as the livestock produced in those areas...maybe safer!

Idaho, I seriously doubt most people would knowingly let their livestock feed on land that had just been sprayed with these herbicide cocktails.  And if they were allowing them to graze on chemical-coated fields, then I certainly wouldn't buy my meat from them and I'll bet you wouldn't either.

Your concerns about toxins in the environment is a global environmental concern that should be the responsibility of the EPA.  If you believe there are too many toxins in the environment (I don't disagree) then I think you need to be lobbying the EPA to restrict emissions, pollutants, herbicides, pesticides, fertilizer etc...

We're all obviously aware that WDFW lacks control over what is being sprayed on timber lands or what the EPA is dubiously deeming to be safe.  However, WDFW is tasked with managing our wildlife resources and ensuring they are safe to consume.  In the opinion of thousands of people in this state, they are doing neither adequately.

You guys frequently, without evidence, want to pin hoof rot directly on herbicide application and the evidence just doesn't support that theory. 

You keep saying that we don't have evidence, but you must be aware that absolute scientific proof is always the last thing to come in these scenarios.  First you must have a hypothesis.  And then you must test it.  And then you may get your evidence.  Right now we are at the hypothesis stage.  Currently, no entity has tested these herbicides on live elk in a controlled setting to see what the effects might be.  So of course we have no evidence!  WDFW refuses to conduct the research!  Not only that, they've refused to grant permission to others to do the research.

Answer me this, Idaho.  Will you support an immediate study researching the effects of herbicides on live elk?

[Coastal_native]

I don't understand why an animal with a debilitating bacterial infection would be deemed safe to eat, especially considering they're still not even sure they've correctly diagnosed the problem. 

Anyone who has frustrations over this is surely justified.

Livestock with hoof diseases of all types are slaughtered and consumed...deemed safe by the USDA 

Well gee wiz, I wish I would've known that.  Pass me one of those safe bacterial infected hooves to gnaw on please. 

[DIYARCHERYJUNKIE]

Why do would one need permission to test elk?  Why can't they get Roosevelt elk and test them independently from wdfw?  I would think environmentalist, wildlife advocates and independent research labs would be all over this.

[idahohuntr]

[quote

Answer me this, Idaho.  Will you support an immediate study researching the effects of herbicides on live elk?
[/quote]

send me the details of your proposed study, including objectives, methods, sample sizes and power analyses regarding treatment effects and I will be happy to provide you comments on whether I consider your study as something that could help address the problem of hoof rot.


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[idahohuntr]

Why do would one need permission to test elk?  Why can't they get Roosevelt elk and test them independently from wdfw?  I would think environmentalist, wildlife advocates and independent research labs would be all over this.

they can do whatever research they want.  all they need is a scientific collecting permit...not hard to get because elk are not Esa protected...I guess it's easier to just throw stones at others than to do your own work??

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[idahohuntr]

I don't understand why an animal with a debilitating bacterial infection would be deemed safe to eat, especially considering they're still not even sure they've correctly diagnosed the problem. 

Anyone who has frustrations over this is surely justified.

Livestock with hoof diseases of all types are slaughtered and consumed...deemed safe by the USDA 

Well gee wiz, I wish I would've known that.  Pass me one of those safe bacterial infected hooves to gnaw on please.

not sure I would eat bacteria infected hooves...but the non infected steak will be just fine.

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