WDFW's "Final Solution": Euthanize Severely Affected Elk

[DIYARCHERYJUNKIE]

They most likely aren't tasked with managing Washington's wildlife. 

Why do would one need permission to test elk?  Why can't they get Roosevelt elk and test them independently from wdfw?  I would think environmentalist, wildlife advocates and independent research labs would be all over this.

they can do whatever research they want.  all they need is a scientific collecting permit...not hard to get because elk are not Esa protected...I guess it's easier to just throw stones at others than to do your own work??

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[pianoman9701]

They don't know what's causing this. Therefore, they can't know that the meat is safe. I find it interesting that nothing but treponemes has been mentioned in this release - nothing - even though they don't know what's causing this. They're trying to lead the reader in a specific direction even as they say they're ignorant of the cause. If you guys are fine with what they've told you about the animals, especially those of you who hunt this area, there's nothing more to be said.

Personally, I don't believe we're being given all the facts and I don't believe the WDFW wants to discover all of the facts. There's a lot more here at play then simple wildlife management. I'm sure that Idahohntr has full faith and confidence in the WDFW and their "science". As a matter of fact, there seems to be nothing the WDFW does with which he doesn't agree, which is interesting to note. He can eat all the hoof diseased elk he wants to. You won't catch me out there or eating the meat from those animals.

[idahohuntr]

They don't know what's causing this. Therefore, they can't know that the meat is safe. I find it interesting that nothing but treponemes has been mentioned in this release - nothing - even though they don't know what's causing this. They're trying to lead the reader in a specific direction even as they say they're ignorant of the cause. If you guys are fine with what they've told you about the animals, especially those of you who hunt this area, there's nothing more to be said.

Personally, I don't believe we're being given all the facts and I don't believe the WDFW wants to discover all of the facts. There's a lot more here at play then simple wildlife management. I'm sure that Idahohntr has full faith and confidence in the WDFW and their "science". As a matter of fact, there seems to be nothing the WDFW does with which he doesn't agree, which is interesting to note. He can eat all the hoof diseased elk he wants to. You won't catch me out there or eating the meat from those animals.

Yes, I believe wdfw is using best available science in working on this complex hoof rot problem...and their analyses of the tissues and internal filtering organs do not indicate the meat is in any way unsafe to consume.  Similar to livestock sold in grocery stores that was slaughtered because they had hoof rot. 

You will be happy to know I don't agree with all they do.  I think they completely mismanage the private lands access program, have unnecessarily complicated hunting regulations, and an enforcement program that needs a serious overhaul.

[headshot5]

I'm just interested how they are going to run the euthanization of limpers.  Contract shooters?  Master Hunters?  Shouldn't the Master Hunters want to decline the honor, since they are supposedly the most ethical and moral of the hunting population?  Wouldn't wholesale eradication of so many elk be beyond what they find acceptable.   How about butchering the meat, are the environmental groups going to help foot the bill or are they going to remain silent since elk are not wolves.  Or are these groups going to protest this and stop progress at every turn...  Or a better question yet... are wolves going to mysteriously appear in large #'s on the West side do to the natural dispersion.  I'm guessing once the wolf gossip gets out that their is easy prey in SW Washington they will naturally disperse to the easy prey promise land in large packs. 

In all seriousness however, I am for the eradication of the limping elk.  Even though they (WDFW) do not have a firm grasp on exactly what is causing it.  All  indication point to it being do to direct contact with either infected elk, or infected soil near infected elk.   This hypothesis is pretty much proven since you can pin point on a map the first location "Boisfort area" and follow the reports year by year in a circle around this location as it spread.   I saw first hand how year after year it moved North and West from Ryderwood to Pe Ell and along HWY 6 to the coast.  Every year limping elk found 5-10 miles further along.

       

[Bob33]

Shouldn't the Master Hunters want to decline the honor, since they are supposedly the most ethical and moral of the hunting population?  Wouldn't wholesale eradication of so many elk be beyond what they find acceptable.         

Wholesale killing of species is not necessarily immoral or unethical. Most people I know would put down a dog that is suffering severely and has no hope of recovery.

Entire bighorn sheep herds have been eradicated in this state on numerous occasions. It's the right and moral thing to do sometimes.

[pianoman9701]

One glaring point that bothers me about this announcement is that after a year of the working group meeting for many hours (thanks to those concerned hunters who participated), and after several public meetings, nothing has changed in the WDFW's course of action or theories. Were I a member of the working group (and I requested to be a member and got no response), I'd be torqued at the time I'd wasted. I don't think they ever intended to change their path. They only wanted it to appear that they gave a crap and used the volunteers on the working group to accomplish that.

As far as killing the elk is concerned, I agree that suffering animals should be put down. I won't be participating as a Master Hunter. I'll continue to do my volunteering on habitat improvement and Hunter Education, but won't endorse their course with my participation.

[bbarnes]

Idaho if you think this is contained to the foot,you have never seen one of these animals.Eating one of these elk is dangerous to your health,ask Eric Cole from the US FW service.He couldn't believe they were still selling hunting licensees,to hunters to hunt these sick Elk.Quit trying to be the fire extinguisher here,people need to know how inept this agency is by allowing this to happen.They also need to know of the lack of agency's oversight on this issue.Again eat that sandwich you have put no facts up on this sight only the WDFW s info do a little research yourself post up some fact of how these toxins are great for the animals.

[pianoman9701]

He's a company shill, BB. Don't waste your breath.

[bbarnes]

I quit share he works for WDFW but not for long ,there broke according to the director so layoffs are coming 

[headshot5]

So at what point do we find ourselves being the hypocrite.  We make the argument that putting them down is the right course of action.  We agree we would put down a suffering dog...  But do we allow a highly contagious dog to wait 20 years before taking action?  Apparently we do.  If putting down sick animals is morally/ethically just, then we have sat on our thumbs for 20 years.  As citizens of Washington State our flaw is that we expect the WDFW to do all the dirty work and then let us reap the benefits, while they take any blame for things gone awry.  I'm not calling a certain group all I'm calling us all out.  I'm not for vigalante justice or anarchy.  I'm for progress in the right direction. 

I hate to say it, but I'm agreeing with Idaho Huntr on the hoof rot issue.  We are letting the WDFW be our mouthpiece, our wildlife investment bankers, and then crucifying them at every step.  Since we the sheeple don't want to take action ourselves we are stuck with the WDFW doing the work.  So why are we working against them?  If we willingly let them manage "our" wildlife, why are we against what they do?

Whose fault is it really that trapping and hound hunting became banned?  WDFW's?  No, it is your fault and my fault.     

     

[bbarnes]

I can say I'm not to blame here's why I've been involved from day one and ask the tough questions nobody wants to answer.My self and others have attended every meeting and forced them to look into what they thought would go away on its own .i talked to every law maker in the state etc etc etc.i have the right to call them out for the lack luster job they've done I'm tired of being lied to and funding employees that only care about there job.

[pianoman9701]

So at what point do we find ourselves being the hypocrite.  We make the argument that putting them down is the right course of action.  We agree we would put down a suffering dog...  But do we allow a highly contagious dog to wait 20 years before taking action?  Apparently we do. If putting down sick animals is morally/ethically just, then we have sat on our thumbs for 20 years.  As citizens of Washington State our flaw is that we expect the WDFW to do all the dirty work and then let us reap the benefits, while they take any blame for things gone awry.  I'm not calling a certain group all I'm calling us all out.  I'm not for vigalante justice or anarchy.  I'm for progress in the right direction. 

I hate to say it, but I'm agreeing with Idaho Huntr on the hoof rot issue.  We are letting the WDFW be our mouthpiece, our wildlife investment bankers, and then crucifying them at every step.  Since we the sheeple don't want to take action ourselves we are stuck with the WDFW doing the work.  So why are we working against them?  If we willingly let them manage "our" wildlife, why are we against what they do?

Whose fault is it really that trapping and hound hunting became banned?  WDFW's?  No, it is your fault and my fault.     

     

We don't get to make the decision when to start culling wildlife. There are hunters/citizens, a few posting on this thread, who've been involved in this and prodding the WDFW for years to take action. Game management is the responsibility of the WDFW or any F&G department. They're the ones with the tools to make science-based decisions to cull or not to cull, not the citizens of the state. I reject your assertion that it's the hunters in this state that have been sitting on their hands and doing nothing. That responsibility lies with the state.

[jongosch]

Boy, these treponema bacteria sure do a lot of traveling.     Along with SW Washington (where they spray herbicides), we have hoof rot up in the Snoqualmie Valley (where they spray herbicides), "bacterial leg deformities" in elk on timberland around Tillamook, Oregon (where they spray herbicides), and then I woke up to this in my inbox...

"The pesticide issue is everywhere across the West, its the elephant in the room. I am part of a new organization that is getting ready to launch a West wide survey project, regarding wildlife malformations. Most of the malformations we are looking at have been tied to pesticides. This survey will be done as a photo contest. You can see it here: http://www.westernwildlifeecology.org/ We plan to let this out ~Friday, and we need all the help and exposure we can get.
 
Joe Hutto, author of "Touching the wild" is seeing hoof problems in his deer around Lander WY, that look very much like the hoof rot that you guys are seeing in Elk. In 2006, and again in 2010, tens of thousands of acres of Fremont and Natrona Counties in Wyoming were sprayed with Dimilin, a chitin inhibitor, to ward off a "plague" of grasshoppers. The deer showed signs of hormone disruption prior to 2010, but after the 2010 spraying, the deer developed hoof problems, skull plate fractures, and antlers that did not loose their velvet, but did usually shed. This was accompanied by buck deer that did not rut.
 
Here is a small piece of what I am seeing here in Utah: http://westernwildlifeecology.org/research/orange-crush/    http://rutalocura.com/deer
 
All of the reference information on the malformations page is from Judy Hoy, out of Montana. She has been looking at a lot of this for almost 20 years now."

What seems more likely now?  That I'm a conspiracy theorist or that WDFW isn't doing their due diligence?   

[jongosch]

But wait... There's more.  As you read this remember that glyphosate is the most commonly used herbicide in our forests, and the active ingredient in Roundup.

Glyphosate, Brain Damaged Babies, and Yakima Valley – A River Runs Through It
http://farmwars.info/?p=11137

"A report released Tuesday by the Washington State Department of Health said that, since 2010, the neighboring counties of Yakima, Benton and Franklin have an unusually high number pregnancies affected by the birth defect anencephaly, which results in a newborns’ brains being severely underdeveloped."

"Glyphosate is also the main herbicide recommended for noxious weed eradication. Why? Because the FDA has declared that it is safe. And not only is the state of Washington using it on land and near irrigation outtakes, it is also entering the Yakima River through direct application because a lot of those pesky noxious weeds just love the water."

"Now let’s connect the dots, shall we? Three Washington counties – Yakima, Benton, and Franklin – experienced an unusually high number of birth defects at around the same time as Glyphosate was being used extensively for several years to eradicate noxious weeds on land and in the water. That birth defect is called anencephaly. Could there be a connection?"

"It appears that Yakima, Benton, and Franklin counties just happen to have three things in common – the Yakima River, a noxious weed eradication program using copious amounts of Glyphosate for years on both land and in the river, and an increase in anencephaly, which Glyphosate just happens to be suspected of causing."

Anencephaly and Glyphosate

"This is the smoking gun. Glyphosate has been linked to the same birth defect that the Washington State Department of Health reported to have found a high incidence of – anencephaly."

"Rull et al. provided evidence of an association between maternal exposure to glyphosate herbicides and anencephaly, a type of neural tube defect, as well as with neural tube defects (NTDs) in general [71,72]–consistent with retinoic acid-linked teratogenicity."

http://earthopensource.org/files/pdfs/Roundup-and-birth-defects/Antoniou-Teratogenic-Effects-of-Glyphosate-Based-Herbicides.pdf

[headshot5]

We don't get to make the decision when to start culling wildlife. There are hunters/citizens, a few posting on this thread, who've been involved in this and prodding the WDFW for years to take action. Game management is the responsibility of the WDFW or any F&G department. They're the ones with the tools to make science-based decisions to cull or not to cull, not the citizens of the state. I reject your assertion that it's the hunters in this state that have been sitting on their hands and doing nothing. That responsibility lies with the state.

Haha!  Legally we don't get to make the call...   If the WDFW are the ones with the tools to make science-based decisions, then why all the speculation of how they are handling it...  You point out above that "Game management is the responsibility of the WDFW or any F&G department" and yet their every move is questioned.  So, if the responsibility and the science based decisions belong to the state what is the problem? 

Please note I'm playing devil's advocate.  But seriously if it is WDFW responsibility and they have the tools then what do we have to cry about...  Oh yeah if they don't take responsibility and when they don't make science based decisions.  Where does it leave us?