AKC has lost it.

[jetjockey]

Well, dont misrepresent yourself and claim you have run against AF people when the people you claim to have run against don't run dogs in AF.  You probably didn't realize I have met the man and watched his dogs run..   Oops!

[Happy Gilmore]

how can you claim to have a gun dog that doesn't retrieve live shot game in competition?

[jetjockey]

Go re-read the post.  The argument could easily be made "how can you claim to have a gun dog that doesn't hunt and find real wild birds in competition"!

[jetjockey]

Looks like there was a lot of backlash. 


On Saturday morning, AKC agreed to appear on Fox & Friends to discuss our thoughts on the use of e-collars for pet training, a buzzed about subject triggered from the release of a recent study.

The AKC has never called for a ban on e-collars. The AKC supports choice in training methods, as well as trusting the experts. Our thousands of field trial, performance and companion participants are the experts, those with the training experience and knowledge to obtain AKC titles on their dogs. It is our opinion that when placed in the informed hands of professionals, e-collars are an appropriate and effective tool for training dogs that are not only well behaved in the home but also competitive in the field. In fact, listed under the heading “Training Collars,” our position in support of e-collars as it pertains to AKC events, dog clubs and professional trainers has not wavered since it was adopted by the Board of Directors in 2001.

When we accept national media opportunities, we see them as a chance to talk to the nearly 57 million dog-owning households across the country who may not know about AKC’s resources and offerings. For better or worse, the vast majority of those owners will face struggles at the most basic level of training, not the complexities of handling performance-level dogs in the field or advanced companion work. When we appeared on Fox & Friends, it was our intention to speak to those novice owners who are seeking the best methods to create well-trained pets. Those methods do not include misuse or overuse of e-collars at the hands of amateur owners, an opinion with which I’m sure any dog expert can agree. AKC maintains its encouragement of positive reinforcement techniques for those beginner owners.

We continue to support the training techniques used by our experienced, responsible, and dedicated performance and companion competitors, and we apologize for not making that distinction clear during Saturday’s segment.

Sincerely,
James Crowley, Executive Secretary
American Kennel Club

[wildweeds]

Born and bred washington state dog.......... HOF National Champeen "Jerry's Runaway Bandit" Bred by Dale Davis and Owned/handled by Jerry Arlington.And next febuary a former washington resident will run at ames in the big show, setter female 2x AA CH Southwind Jetset Drifter.

[jetjockey]

For 6 years I've been saying I'm going to drive over and ride the AF Nationals at Ames.  Since this will probably be my last winter in GA before moving to CO, this might be my last chance to easily do it.  I rode the AKC Nationals there several years ago.  Those historic grounds are pretty amazing,  and surprisingly tight for an AA National. I'd love to ride the Continental as well, but that probably won't happen.  I'll be rooting for the Setter from the PNW.  It'd be cool to see a west coast dog standing at the steps.

[AspenBud]

Interesting... JJ besides  E collars what other things make AKC less sporting dog friendly?

Take a gander at an Irish Setter and then look at every other pointing dog on a show bench.

[AspenBud]

Jet you stated that AF promotes hunting dogs then why did NAVHDA break away from them because AF took a stand against shooting and killing birds.  It is quite easy to to train a dog to stand there pop a popgun then watch the bird fly away.  It is another thing to teach a dog to stand through wing and shot and retrieve to hand.  What good is a hunting dog that can't retrieve?   

I realize that we could argue about this all day, but AF likes to push wild bird trials and not just trials run on pen raised poultry.

You can't shoot wild birds in a trial.

There is also an argument in favor of saying that a dog that can handle wild birds can handle pen raised ones but the reverse is not always true. Retrieving is a trained skill and really has no bearing on whether or not a pointing dog will be an outstanding athlete or bird finder or whether the dog should ultimately be bred.

Discussions like this frequently become blood baths between NSTRA and AF guys. Both have a point.

[AspenBud]

The sad thing about this thread is it devolved to this or that registry being better rather than focusing on the fact that the country's biggest registry had a spokesperson openly come out against e-collars on national TV. One of the most relied on, fundamental, tools used by bird dog trainers has been deemed unacceptable and cruel by a registry that is supposed to support bird dog owners.

[10Key]

The sad thing about this thread is it devolved to this or that registry being better rather than focusing on the fact that the country's biggest registry had a spokesperson openly come out against e-collars on national TV. One of the most relied on, fundamental, tools used by bird dog trainers has been deemed unacceptable and cruel by a registry that is supposed to support bird dog owners.

nailed it

[Happy Gilmore]

The sad thing about this thread is it devolved to this or that registry being better rather than focusing on the fact that the country's biggest registry had a spokesperson openly come out against e-collars on national TV. One of the most relied on, fundamental, tools used by bird dog trainers has been deemed unacceptable and cruel by a registry that is supposed to support bird dog owners.

Actually they made it pretty clear that was her personal opinion and they performance dept will chime in shortly. The interview was barely even a couple minutes. The reaction is like PETA to a squirrel kill

[jetjockey]

Then she needs to be fired.  She CLEARLY references the AKC and says "we" believe there are better methods.  Never mind the fact that she is on National TV representing the AKC as there spokesman.   Nowhere in the interview did she EVER say it was her opinion!  She clearly stated it was the opinion of the AKC, and she was representing them as their spokesman.  The AKC is just trying to cover their Azz.

[AspenBud]

The sad thing about this thread is it devolved to this or that registry being better rather than focusing on the fact that the country's biggest registry had a spokesperson openly come out against e-collars on national TV. One of the most relied on, fundamental, tools used by bird dog trainers has been deemed unacceptable and cruel by a registry that is supposed to support bird dog owners.

Actually they made it pretty clear that was her personal opinion and they performance dept will chime in shortly. The interview was barely even a couple minutes. The reaction is like PETA to a squirrel kill

That's as it should be. Someone that far up the chain making comments like that on national TV, even for a couple of minutes, is incredibly bad PR that HSUS and PETA live for. She threw bird dog trainers and owners under the bus with a very misinformed opinion and represented it as AKC's stand on them. That can't go unanswered anymore.

[wildweeds]

E collars are far more humane approach than the way it used to be done, a LOT of dogs before E collars flat out got shot at in the hindparts. Truly talented trainers can get the job done with nothing but a checkcord,birds and patience,thing is about that............... most of them have been dead along time,those were men who didn't have the luxury of modern devices because of the time they lived in.What they were afforded however were lots of free birds  from mother nature to train on.

[Happy Gilmore]

Then she needs to be fired.  She CLEARLY references the AKC and says "we" believe there are better methods.  Never mind the fact that she is on National TV representing the AKC as there spokesman.   Nowhere in the interview did she EVER say it was her opinion!  She clearly stated it was the opinion of the AKC, and she was representing them as their spokesman.  The AKC is just trying to cover their Azz.

AF has an opportunity to make a stand and be influential. They should step up to the plate and do some interviews with Fox News on the subject and use their strong influential power on the east coast to shame the AKC and all the weaknesses of their registration, history and performance dept. history to show the nation.