Wash. reports new wolf pack found

[bearpaw]

no coyotes singing at 3am....and in 4 days I never crossed a single yote track.

A lot of people on here tried to say that doesn't happen when wolves move in. Now you see it does. They literally kill and displace the buggers.

The same is true of pet dogs, hunting dogs, and herd dogs, the wolves literally try to kill them! 

[AspenBud]

Myself and many others have posted the data numerous times proving certain ungulate declines in several specific ungulate herds were caused by wolves, cougars, bear, and/or coyotes in studies documented by state wildlife biologists. It's also true and I don't think anyone disagrees that habitat and hunters play a role in herd numbers, but those are not the only factors, predators have been proven to have varying degrees of impact on herds.

Obviously the proven fact that wolves have impacted certain herds does not mean that myself or others think all predation on ungulates is caused by wolves or cougars, or that all declines in herds is caused solely by wolves or cougars. There are certainly many other predators and factors that can impact ungulate herds more or less depending on which area is being discussed. But, there are proven instances where wolves and cougars in particular are the primary factor impacting herds or keeping herds from rebounding, why not just admit that fact rather than try to twist the facts as if wolves and cougars never have an impact?

I find it disheartening that fellow hunters would argue that that these impacts do not occur when they know full well and have seen the evidence that wolves and cougars can be a major impact on herds. Who is really feeding the other side what they need to try and stop hunting of predators? 

I'm not denying they have an impact. I'm just saying if ungulates are having a hard time rebounding in some areas because of predators and not others the next logical question is why are they able to coexist in some areas and not in others? And if that can't be fixed, is it really worth spending the time to eradicate predators that will likely starve to death anyhow if the prey population is dying off? You can have too much of a "good thing" and wolves can be that, no denying that, but I don't buy that everywhere they go it's the end of all game.

I think a lot of wildlife is in trouble in this state these days. Predators play a role but so does habitat loss and degradation and there are likely other factors in play too. I know a guy who has had two Roosevelt elk literally walk onto his property in the off season this year, fall over, and die, and they had hoof rot. I know another who got into a herd of them a last week and he tells me not a single one was walking around without at least one foot showing signs of hoof rot including the one they got and hauled off the mountain. Yet the state has done relatively little, that I'm aware of, to find out why they are coming down with it and by all accounts they almost acted surprised when someone suggested timber companies spraying herbicides and pesticides might have a role when they rolled into Longview. It was like they had never thought of it before.

From upland birds to other small and big game the state's wildlife, by my eye, isn't fairing well anywhere. Some of it is obvious, some of it less so.

And with that I'm bowing out again.

[AspenBud]

no coyotes singing at 3am....and in 4 days I never crossed a single yote track.

A lot of people on here tried to say that doesn't happen when wolves move in. Now you see it does. They literally kill and displace the buggers.

The same is true of pet dogs, hunting dogs, and herd dogs, the wolves literally try to kill them! 

VERY true.

[jasnt]

I live in the middle of wolf country,  the wedge,  where it all started for WA - ground zero if you will.

Every time I go out I see wolf sign in my old hunting areas and effects of wolves on the landscape,  I see carcasses all the time. 



this is not new for me.


I went Elk hunting last week in an area I knew had wolves, normally I'd avoid those areas but now I figure I can't get away from them, they're everywhere...but even I was shocked at the almost total desertion of large game.   Dale has been saying it all along, but until you witness devastation with your own eyes you won't get it.

Yes there was still some Elk there, but the herds were tiny and constantly moving.  I wasn't able to find a herd that was holed up for even a day or two.  I should have seen or heard of some success from other Elk hunters but no..I seen no dead heads, no horns in the back of trucks, no gut piles or ravens, no coyotes singing at 3am....and in 4 days I never crossed a single yote track.

I tried to get on here and share my experience, but I was instead mocked.

I'm not a piss poor hunter, I'm not a moron, nor a politician.  I'm not sad or pathetic, I'm not a lousy hunter nor don't know chit about Elk.

this is what I'm seeing too. I don't live as far north as kf but 90% of my hunting is north of me.  Many of the carcasses' have busted off or crushed nose. Some are not hardly eaten but mostly buried and rotten.  My fav hunting spot is few miles away its few square miles that I normally grid work several days a week(seasonal worker) from Dec 15th to end of march I found 11 such kills on this property alone

[bearpaw]

I live in the middle of wolf country,  the wedge,  where it all started for WA - ground zero if you will.

Every time I go out I see wolf sign in my old hunting areas and effects of wolves on the landscape,  I see carcasses all the time. 



this is not new for me.


I went Elk hunting last week in an area I knew had wolves, normally I'd avoid those areas but now I figure I can't get away from them, they're everywhere...but even I was shocked at the almost total desertion of large game.   Dale has been saying it all along, but until you witness devastation with your own eyes you won't get it.

Yes there was still some Elk there, but the herds were tiny and constantly moving.  I wasn't able to find a herd that was holed up for even a day or two.  I should have seen or heard of some success from other Elk hunters but no..I seen no dead heads, no horns in the back of trucks, no gut piles or ravens, no coyotes singing at 3am....and in 4 days I never crossed a single yote track.

I tried to get on here and share my experience, but I was instead mocked.

I'm not a piss poor hunter, I'm not a moron, nor a politician.  I'm not sad or pathetic, I'm not a lousy hunter nor don't know chit about Elk.

this is what I'm seeing too. I don't live as far north as kf but 90% of my hunting is north of me.  Many of the carcasses' have busted off or crushed nose. Some are not hardly eaten but mostly buried and rotten.  My fav hunting spot is few miles away its few square miles that I normally grid work several days a week(seasonal worker) from Dec 15th to end of march I found 11 such kills on this property alone

Those areas up by KF used to be excellent for deer, elk, and moose. We had to change some of our hunting areas due to impacts from wolves, sad to see how they can impact an area. Just like what happened in certain areas of Idaho and Montana.

[idahohuntr]

I think we can all take away from this thread that broad generalizations about the factors that influence deer/elk abundance are very difficult to defend.  Predators- cougars, wolves, etc. definitely can have an impact on the abundance of deer and elk...and those impacts can range from negligible to severe.  Add in other mortality factors and even the moderate predation can be devastating. As I mentioned earlier, I believe more often predation gets the attention while habitat issues are the silent killer.  But that should not be taken to mean that predators don't or will not have potentially severe impacts.   

My perspective is there is actually a whole lot more common ground than disagreement than comes across in these threads.  Naturally it is the microscopic focus on disagreements that results in more posts/debate and so it skews just how much of the big picture we all can probably agree on.   

[bearpaw]

I think we can all take away from this thread that broad generalizations about the factors that influence deer/elk abundance are very difficult to defend.  Predators- cougars, wolves, etc. definitely can have an impact on the abundance of deer and elk...and those impacts can range from negligible to severe.  Add in other mortality factors and even the moderate predation can be devastating. As I mentioned earlier, I believe more often predation gets the attention while habitat issues are the silent killer.  But that should not be taken to mean that predators don't or will not have potentially severe impacts.   

My perspective is there is actually a whole lot more common ground than disagreement than comes across in these threads.  Naturally it is the microscopic focus on disagreements that results in more posts/debate and so it skews just how much of the big picture we all can probably agree on.   

I hope so! 

[CAMPMEAT]

We're not seeing as many deer over here like we used to. The hunters I know that live here say, they haven't seen the amount of coyotes, or even hearing them like the used too.

[nwwanderer]

I apologize if this point has been made.  I have attended a few prowolf meeting around the state just for the education and entertainment value.  It is very hard to maintain control at these functions, the pucker factor and muzzle (read mouth not gun) control is difficult.  The WDFW has openly stated many times that they are just shocked that Canadian canids have become a problem in such a short time.  Some have gone so far as to say they do not expect the department to be 'up to speed' before 2020. Delisting is a nightmare scenario for most of them.  Do not expect packs to be confirmed or even the definition of a pack to be static.

[Stein]

If half the MT hunters unhappy about wolves went out and bought and filled a tag, there wouldn't be any "problem" in Montana - or any other state that has legal wolf hunting.  Heck, if 10% of the hunters went after wolves one or two days a year the picture would be much different.  Even as a non-resident, I can pick up a MT tag for $50 OTC (5/year) and hunt pretty much anywhere - not to mention ranchers who would probably welcome the help.  I know a bunch of MT hunters and have yet to meet one that ever even bought a tag.

Washington will be the same way I bet, wolves reproduce, get unlisted and then hardly anyone hunts them.  It's always easier to complain than it is to do something productive.

[wolfbait]

If half the MT hunters unhappy about wolves went out and bought and filled a tag, there wouldn't be any "problem" in Montana - or any other state that has legal wolf hunting.  Heck, if 10% of the hunters went after wolves one or two days a year the picture would be much different.  Even as a non-resident, I can pick up a MT tag for $50 OTC (5/year) and hunt pretty much anywhere - not to mention ranchers who would probably welcome the help.  I know a bunch of MT hunters and have yet to meet one that ever even bought a tag.

Washington will be the same way I bet, wolves reproduce, get unlisted and then hardly anyone hunts them.  It's always easier to complain than it is to do something productive.

Wolves smarten up pretty darn quick, they are not as easy to hunt as some might think. It has been said that wolves are 10% smarter then dogs.

[wolfbait]

We can go back and forth all day long about the predation on the game herds, the one thing that points at the wolves is history. Before wolves the game herds could keep up if tags etc. were limited in areas for a year or two, that had a bad winter. The introduction of the Canadian wolves tip the scale on predation of ungulates and livestock. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise, either doesn't have a clue or they like playing head games.

[wolfbait]

You guys are spitting into the wind. Those people who so dearly love their wolves won't admit there's a problem even when the ungulates are gone and they have lost their outdoors opportunities. We lost this battle to environmental extremists three years ago with the help of a stacked wildlife commission with a watchable wildlife mentality. The WDFW will self-destruct as the people who support it (the hunters and fishers) go away and find their opportunities elsewhere. We have a very sad state of affairs in WA and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, if it ever does.

 Actually we lost to the environmentalists longer then three years ago, but the end results will be the same, the times are changing and for those of us who enjoy hunting etc..

[idahohuntr]

We can go back and forth all day long about the predation on the game herds, the one thing that points at the wolves is history. Before wolves the game herds could keep up if tags etc. were limited in areas for a year or two, that had a bad winter. The introduction of the Canadian wolves tip the scale on predation of ungulates and livestock. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise, either doesn't have a clue or they like playing head games.

see below.

I think we can all take away from this thread that broad generalizations about the factors that influence deer/elk abundance are very difficult to defend. 

[jasnt]

If half the MT hunters unhappy about wolves went out and bought and filled a tag, there wouldn't be any "problem" in Montana - or any other state that has legal wolf hunting.  Heck, if 10% of the hunters went after wolves one or two days a year the picture would be much different.  Even as a non-resident, I can pick up a MT tag for $50 OTC (5/year) and hunt pretty much anywhere - not to mention ranchers who would probably welcome the help.  I know a bunch of MT hunters and have yet to meet one that ever even bought a tag.

Washington will be the same way I bet, wolves reproduce, get unlisted and then hardly anyone hunts them.  It's always easier to complain than it is to do something productive.

you must not know too many predator hunters from Montana, spend a little time browsing predator.asters and you will see there are plenty of wolf hunters there. Here's one account to get ya started

 http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2718741&nt=1&page=2


I look forward to my first wolf hunt and "I  know a bunch of" predator hunters that feel the same as I.