Let The Methow Herd Destruction Begin

[huntnphool]

Issuing an additional 1200 doe tags a couple months after the fire without actually having a problem, definately didn't contribute anything positive to "rebuilding the Methow deer herd".

This wasn't done to "rebuild" the herd. It was done to prevent a massive die off n the event of a bad winter. It's too late to use this tactic after the fact and a bad winter hits. By the time you can respond, most of the animals are in starvation mode and weakened and the resources are stressed also and won't support a recovery as quickly as an area that hasn't been overgrazed.

 I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you SB, there was absolutely zero science used last year for their decision, it was a knee jerk reaction based solely on A GUESS, nothing more! They guessed, while it was still 70* in September mind you, and tried to predict what even the best scientists in the world can't do, what the weather is going to do 3 and 4 months down the road.

 At the time of the announcement, the herd was still healthy and even in their words had plenty of time to make decisions if the weather turned for the worst. Perhaps you should go back and read from the beginning of the thread.

 Admittedly by WDFW, the deer would be okay if they could get to December before a bad storm. Had that happened, they could have then issued the emergency tags.........but they jumped to premature conclusions..............again, based on a guess, neither "science or sound management"!

 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

You're right, we could argue all year and we probably wouldn't see eye to eye.  I know nothing about the Methow, That may give you reason to write off my opinion. But I know deer and I pay a lot of attention to management schemes and what works in other places including those I've never been. I have friends who are biologists including the head bio during the moose reduction I mentioned above and I ask a lot of questions and I try not to have preconceived ideas I'm not willing to move from. I also know that the states with the best deer management incorporate a lot of doe hunting in their management plans to keep herds balanced. I've spent over 50 years in the woods of Washington and Alaska and have seen numerous rises and falls of different game populations.

But none of that really matters. The results will reveal themselves in due time. And if the Methow takes a disastrous turn, there will be a lot of "I told you sos".  If the herd recovers because of the way it's being managed, I doubt I'll be hearing many say, "Well I'll be darned, I was wrong".

[huntnphool]

But none of that really matters. The results will reveal themselves in due time. And if the Methow takes a disastrous turn, there will be a lot of "I told you sos".  If the herd recovers

 What's done is done SB, future results will have no relevance to last year's fiasco, nice try though.

 Bottom line, they could have waited and instead made piss poor decisions based on speculation, even the most fervent WDFW supporter should see that.

[bigmacc]

You're right, we could argue all year and we probably wouldn't see eye to eye.  I know nothing about the Methow, That may give you reason to write off my opinion. But I know deer and I pay a lot of attention to management schemes and what works in other places including those I've never been. I have friends who are biologists including the head bio during the moose reduction I mentioned above and I ask a lot of questions and I try not to have preconceived ideas I'm not willing to move from. I also know that the states with the best deer management incorporate a lot of doe hunting in their management plans to keep herds balanced. I've spent over 50 years in the woods of Washington and Alaska and have seen numerous rises and falls of different game populations.

But none of that really matters. The results will reveal themselves in due time. And if the Methow takes a disastrous turn, there will be a lot of "I told you sos".  If the herd recovers because of the way it's being managed, I doubt I'll be hearing many say, "Well I'll be darned, I was wrong".

Sitka that is what we are saying, the herd in the methow has already taken a "disastrous turn" as you say, in fact many of them over the years. Those of us who have history in this valley see it, whether fire related,weather related or predator related. This herd is nothing like it was and continues to slide and the answer always seems to be "shoot more does" I guess we can add another to the "disastrous turn" list....management related!....as always,my opinion and my

[Igor]

One of the major reasons the Methow herd has taken a "disastrous turn" is that the valley is way more populated by people than it has ever been.  I have hunted there annually for thirty years.  In that time the winter range for mule deer has shrunk in a major way.  Every hilltop and hillside that used to be winter range for mule deer now has a house on it.  Thousands of acres which used to be covered with migrating mule deer now have no deer on them at all during the winter months.  It is a sad sight to see !!!!!

[boneaddict]

It is a sad sight to see, but you want to hear something ironic.   The private property is like a little game reserve. This will really fire up ole Sitka.   Those anti hunters might be what is saving any chance the herd might have.

That and the fire fighters dropping retardant around all the homes creating pockets of feed.   
Now, if they'd just control their dogs.

[Ridgeratt]

One of the major reasons the Methow herd has taken a "disastrous turn" is that the valley is way more populated by people than it has ever been.  I have hunted there annually for thirty years.  In that time the winter range for mule deer has shrunk in a major way.  Every hilltop and hillside that used to be winter range for mule deer now has a house on it.  Thousands of acres which used to be covered with migrating mule deer now have no deer on them at all during the winter months.  It is a sad sight to see !!!!!

We have a WINNER!!!!

But it is everywhere. You left out that they all have 3 dog's as well.

[Igor]

It is a sad sight to see, but you want to hear something ironic.   The private property is like a little game reserve. This will really fire up ole Sitka.   Those anti hunters might be what is saving any chance the herd might have.

That and the fire fighters dropping retardant around all the homes creating pockets of feed.   
Now, if they'd just control their dogs.

I guess you lost me there.  How do "Those anti hunters" save the mule deer herd in the Methow??

[JimmyHoffa]

It is a sad sight to see, but you want to hear something ironic.   The private property is like a little game reserve. This will really fire up ole Sitka.   Those anti hunters might be what is saving any chance the herd might have.

That and the fire fighters dropping retardant around all the homes creating pockets of feed.   
Now, if they'd just control their dogs.

I guess you lost me there.  How do "Those anti hunters" save the mule deer herd in the Methow??

All those unhuntable yards to hang out in all winter.

[boneaddict]

Escapement Igor.   

I'm not arguing with you Igor.  I've seen a lot of beautiful range turn into yards filled with dogs.

[wolfbait]

One of the major reasons the Methow herd has taken a "disastrous turn" is that the valley is way more populated by people than it has ever been.  I have hunted there annually for thirty years.  In that time the winter range for mule deer has shrunk in a major way.  Every hilltop and hillside that used to be winter range for mule deer now has a house on it.  Thousands of acres which used to be covered with migrating mule deer now have no deer on them at all during the winter months.  It is a sad sight to see !!!!!

During the winter months the deer that are so "impacted" by homes, hang out in the front yard for safety, I might add it use to be just the winter months but now you can see deer bedded down around homes year around, protection from predators.

I remember some bad winters that many of these same people bought hay for the deer when they were starving and pressured WDFW to help, which they finally did putting their pellet stations along the county roads.

It isn't the population of people that has caused the"disastrous turn""
 it's WDFW management.

How many livestock producers would be in business very long if they allowed predators to work their herds over day in and day out, and then take the same amount to the butcher shop every year?

[bobcat]

If winter range is lacking, I'd say that's the primary reason for low deer numbers, not WDFW's management. Or in other words- habitat, the most important factor of all.

[wolfbait]

If winter range is lacking, I'd say that's the primary reason for low deer numbers, not WDFW's management. Or in other words- habitat, the most important factor of all.

If winter range was lacking you would see it in ate down bitter brush etc. I can hike you through the Methow and show you this has not happened. Three years ago we had areas that always had deer in the winter time and it was void of deer, so it is not the lack of winter range it is the depletion of deer.

[huntnphool]

If winter range is lacking, I'd say that's the primary reason for low deer numbers, not WDFW's management. Or in other words- habitat, the most important factor of all.

If winter range was lacking you would see it in ate down bitter brush etc. I can hike you through the Methow and show you this has not happened. Three years ago we had areas that always had deer in the winter time and it was void of deer, so it is not the lack of winter range it is the depletion of deer.

 +1

[Igor]

If winter range is lacking, I'd say that's the primary reason for low deer numbers, not WDFW's management. Or in other words- habitat, the most important factor of all.

The lack of winter range is precisely the problem.  The deer that hang out in front yards are not migratory deer, for the most part.  They are resident deer which are used to being around people.  You can drive around the Methow on Memorial Day or Labor Day, and those deer are right there.  The winter range which used to be so prevalent is now filled up with houses and cabins.  The parts of the Methow which at one time provided the lowest levels of snow, as well as winter browse, are now filled up with houses.  This is one of the major factors in the decline of the mule deer migrations.