Is it just me? DNR land question

[steeliedrew]

This morning I decided to ride the mountain bike back into a secluded cut on some DNR land in the 407.  My plan was to still hunt the edge of the cut hoping to catch something coming out to sun itself after a night down in the 20's. I had scouted this area once 3 years ago and i must have thought it looked good back then and just kind of had a good feeling about it today.

What I noticed when I got back there was that everything is thicker than dog snot and just how sloppy the cut itself is. The cut is way overgrown, and Alder choked with trees laying all over the place around the tree line like dead fall making it almost impossible to penetrate the timber without breaking a leg if you slip between the logs.  It was like the whole area is one big slash pile. Looking back on a lot of the other DNR lands I've hunted in 407, 448, and 460 cuts like this have been the trend.

Just last week I spent 3 days hunting a small chunk of Port Blakely land in another unit and was amazed at how clean their cuts and the surrounding timbers are.  Consequently I got on 17 deer plus bumped one that I didn't see to make it an even 18 deer in 3 days. Only had one in range for a second before getting busted. All the rest busted me from further out. 

So to sum up this rant, it seems to me that Port Blakely and Weyco lands from what I've seen are cared for differently than DNR lands and thus, possibly easier to hunt?  Anybody else notice DNR lands being pretty choked out in certain units or areas? Or maybe it's just me like the thread title asks?

The simple answer is to stop whining, scout better throughout the year and find some lands that I want to hunt and get dialed in or maybe purchase a Weyco or Hancock permit next year, but I'm really more of a mule deer guy anyhow.  I've mostly only pursued blacktail as late season is coming to an end. 

[MtnMuley]

We could and Hancock strictly manages their land for timber/sales. To the DNR, the timber is just part of the package. Hence, the private timber company land dresses up their land for future board feet, while the DNR gets their quota for the year and moves on.

[Firedogg]

Shoot, you haven't spent much time wandering the Hancock reprod with all the slash undr the ferns and brush waiting to take out your ankles.  And some of the roughest area I've been in was Port Blakely property between Riffe Lake and the Green River that was almost impossible to pass through because of their thinning practices. Weyerhauser land in the Winston unit with blow downs on the edges of clear cuts stacked higher than I could climb, yet I watched blacktails get on there knees to go under, so I followed suit to never see them again.

  Find an area to your liking. All land holders have properties that are rough, thick, and full of downed wood that wants to break a leg. either that or buy a large section or two to maintain the way you like it.

[jackelope]

460?
I've made a fairly solid effort at trying to hunt some DNR land in 460 and absolutely hate it. Not to sound like a whiner, but I feel fortunate when I don't break my leg in that crap.

[steeliedrew]

460?
I've made a fairly solid effort at trying to hunt some DNR land in 460 and absolutely hate it. Not to sound like a whiner, but I feel fortunate when I don't break my leg in that crap.

460, 448, and 407.  Haha. Just DNR land in general.

[Firedogg]

You would think DNR would have a better cleanup clause in their contract.

[HornHoarder]

I've heard that is there new way of doing things. Just scatter all the debris across the ground, instead of piling/burning it.

[addicted2hunting]

yup DNR is all about production, cut, stack, go. good thing its not eastern Washington or it would be one hell of a fire!

[HornHoarder]

I'm in eastern Wa. near Spokane, and they are doing that here as well. I've seen several parcels of DNR land post logging, and what a mess.

[JimmyHoffa]

 

I've heard that is there new way of doing things. Just scatter all the debris across the ground, instead of piling/burning it.

I heard that too, so it would better simulate a forest and let the soil build up and filter water.

[dreamunelk]

More structure equals more diversity equals more wildlife.  If it is nice and clean and easy to walk through it is not good for wildlife in the long term.

[lokidog]

More structure equals more diversity equals more wildlife.  If it is nice and clean and easy to walk through it is not good for wildlife in the long term.

Not really, imo.  Brush/branches/deadfall doesn't necessarily mean more diversity, especially when all that is replanted is doug fir and herbicides are sprayed on everything.  However, the newer ideas of "reforestation" include leaving the dead (future decomposing) material scattered where it falls so the nutrients are available over the whole area not just in concentrated piles.  Unfortunately, for us hunters, it makes moving through these areas much more difficult.  I loved hunting the coastal BLM lands in Oregon back in the burning days of the 80's, you could cover a lot of ground relatively quietly.  And, when it came to dragging something out, you didn't need a forklift or helicopter.

[steeliedrew]

Thanks for the replies guys. Keep em coming. I will agree that I have seen some nasty stuff on Weyco and port Blakely land but find way more good than bad on their lands. I see about 3/4's more sign on their lands also compared to DNR it seems.

[logger]

As one who has to deal with the slash it drives me bat crap crazy to scatter it around or pile it and then they half ass burn it. I say go back to slash burns and stop spraying! Not that many years ago campbell group would go in after we logged and seed the skid trails and exposed soil with a mix that was for the deer and elk, worked great!

[lokidog]

Thank you spotted owl. You have ruined everything imo.

Not sure you can blame anything where the trees are actually cut on the Spotted Owls...?   

[Special T]

To the OP I think you just need to go a little farther inside the timber. borders do seem to have lots of blow down but if you go 50 yards or so inside the cuts edge it normally clears up some. 

I know that in the SE GMU they spray and burn/stack slash more than up here in the 407. I think up here they do it for soil erosion prevention, down south they worry more about fire. Up north we have a VERY small fire season by comparison.

[fishnfur]

Sounds to me like you got into an area of slash/release work.  The DNR contracts companies out to get the unit down to around 300 trees per acre (TPA).  That is about a 12 foot spacing between trees.  When you are in an area where alder was planted, normally at 600 TPA, which I believe is the standard planting, then around the six year mark, they go in and remove half of the trees.  The initial heavy planting helps the trees grow up rather than branch out.  After six years, they are big enough that an adjacent tree 12 feet away will provide enough shade to keep them going up rather than produce low branches.  The release treatment allows the fastest growth of the alder plantations and stops fir plantations from being overtopped by alder, which ultimately will kill the fir trees.

On fir planted units, DNR uses the same spacing but leaves an alder (if available) when slash/release treatments are performed.   We all know how effective alder is at overtaking a clearcut.  Six year post-planting, that leaves a lot of dead six inch alder laying around.  If you want to hunt these spots, look for the trails through the slash or work the edges.  Forget trying to walk through that stuff.  I think the deer still use the area extensively, at least based on the trails I see through the slash.

I believe the private timber companies use more herbicides intended to kill alder at a younger age.  Weyco lands are incredibly barren of alder and brush until the fir are well established.  Brown and dead - everywhere.  They seem to have special cocktails of 2-4D and Glyphosate (round up) herbicides that kill alder extremely well while only causing minor damage to the fir plantation.  It seem to make for a lot easier hunting down the road too. 

That's my guess about what you are experiencing.  Thankfully, the alder rots incredibly quick.  5 - 8 years of ground contact and that stuff will literally melt into the forest floor.

[steeliedrew]

To the OP I think you just need to go a little farther inside the timber. borders do seem to have lots of blow down but if you go 50 yards or so inside the cuts edge it normally clears up some. 

This is true. But not in this spot. haha. We tried, and as we were walking through slash and knee to waist high blowdown inside the timber and not seeing an ounce of deer sign we said NOPE and bailed out.

[steeliedrew]

fishnfur,

That's some good info there. The cut was full of spaced out Christmas trees of some kind that were 3-4' tall. didn't really pay attention to species. Now that I think back they were probably somewhere in the neighborhood of ten plus feet apart.

[JimmyHoffa]

Thank you spotted owl. You have ruined everything imo.

Not sure you can blame anything where the trees are actually cut on the Spotted Owls...?   

I think the soil management is more for fish protection than owl protection.

[WSU]

Thank you spotted owl. You have ruined everything imo.

Not sure you can blame anything where the trees are actually cut on the Spotted Owls...?   

That's what I was thinking. I don't know the whole story, but I thought the issue with Spotted Owls was that people, especially the feds, no long cut big timber in giant swaths?