Losing birds

[UplandJoe]

Rookie question:
I have been hunting some of the release sites in Western Washington and on two occasions I have dropped a bird in relatively thick cover, with a reasonable sight on where it dropped only to completely lose it. My dogs (2) are more or less untrained... but do have noses and we just can't find the bird. (I have been training my lab/pointer with a dead bird and she usually finds it)
 
This morning I dropped a rooster as it was flying directly out and away from me and it dropped hard but I cased a 40 yard area with no luck

My thinking it my shot size (7) with my 20 gauge is too light and when they hit the ground they start running. Am I far off base with this line of thinking? am I just blind? are my dogs that terrible?

Thanks in advance!

[JODakota]

Move to 5's.  Pay attention to the dogs, it can be as subtle as a sniff and they move on. Your dos aren't that terrible. I have good dogs(from what I'd like to think anyway) and sometimes they miss the mark and don't really care to much after the bird is dead. They'll get it down with more experience.

[bobcat]

I would agree that the birds most likely hit the ground running. A more experienced dog would probably trail those birds until they were found. Either don't take those longer shots, or switch to heavier loads with #4 shot. (That is if you're shooting steel shot, I assume lead isn't allowed?)

[Bullkllr]

It sucks to lose a bird. Hang in there.

I would feel somewhat under-gunned with a 20 gauge with #7 shot for general pheasant conditions. Pheasants (even pen-raised) are big birds and can take a hit. That combo would work in close-up easy rise situations, but they ain't all like that.

 I'm guessing they are running as soon as they hit the ground and disappearing, making it tough for any dog to find them depending on the cover. I lost one this year that fell in the most godawful blackberry patch across the river. It was my second shot and probably an iffy one, but I took it. My dog did not see the fall (heavy brush) and we searched all through there and never turned it up. That was with #2 steel out of a 12 gauge.

[Bill W]

7's (not 7.5's) in a 20 gauge worked for me on pen-raised birds.   You can tell the difference between a cripple and a dead/almost dead bird by the way they thump down.  It might have been your dogs just couldn't find it for you.

If you don't have confidence in your 7's, go to 6's.   I assume you are shooting reloads right now.

[Quackwhacker]

My buddy and I hunt North Dakota for pheasant. He uses 6's and I use 5's. I would definitely bump up to 5's if using steel. Pheasant are tough birds. Mighty tough to find a crippled bird as they can run for a ways. Good luck!

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[UplandJoe]

Thanks everyone. I will get some 5 or 6 and report back.. too bad I bought a whole case of 7's! So used to shooting skeet that I figured I would need that many shells.

Any quail hunters looking for some non-toxic? real cheap! pm me  20 gauge  2 3/4

[WSU]

Way too light of a load for steel.

[wildweeds]

Really the cats meow for non tox if your used to shooting lead at clays targets is the classic doubles hevi shot, shoots just like your lead clays shells and you really don't use that many if your an avid skeet shooter. They hit like a hammer I use the hevi shot in my 410 in 6's.butt belly beak bang.

[Old Dog]

Where do you find it?  I ended up ordering some Kent Ultimate Pheasant from Brownell's, because I couldn't find anything locally.

[CP]

Way too light of a load for steel.

 

Use #2s  - There is no advantage to using smaller shot

[Blackjaw]

The old rule of thumb is use 2 shot sizes bigger when switching to steel, so steel #7 = Lead #9, steel #5 = lead #7, etc. Here is an interesting article I found that kind of confirms this http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/07/pheasants-and-steel

[T-Bone]

The Pheasant Release Sites require non-toxic shot; #7 steel is a dove load. Pheasants, even pen raised ones, can die hard. I suggest no less than #4 steel (the ballistic twin to #6 lead) or better yet #3 or #2 steel (#2 steel is the ballistic twin to #4 lead). Use a 3" shell in a gun with either IC or Mod. chokes; never use a FULL choked gun with steel shot due to the possibility of barrel damage.

If you have fixed FULL choked gun, get some Rio Bismuth or Kent Tungten Matrix. Both bismuth and tungsten matrix approximate lead density; so now the #6 or #5 shot sizes should be O.K. for pen raised birds.

Hope these suggests help.

Tom

[RadSav]

I ended up ordering some Kent Ultimate Pheasant from Brownell's, because I couldn't find anything locally.

If I recall the Ultimate Upland stuff is FastLead.  Pheasant release sites require non-toxic shot.  So be careful with that...they will write tickets!

When we work the pheasant sites I always spend the money on good loads.  That used to mean Remington HD but those are no longer available.  Man was that stuff fantastic!!!  Now we have to settle for Hevi-Shot.  Not at all as good as the HD stuff, but far and away better than steel.  We run 7.5 in the good stuff.  But occasionally we have a hard time finding it.  When that happens we switch to Kent Fast Steel in #5.  Doesn't reach out and whack 'em like the Hevi, but it does the trick.  #4 steel from just about anyone works ok too, just tears up meat when you shouldn't need to.

You may want to change your focus of attention when shooting pheasant also.  Most guys concentrate on the center of the bird.  If you are getting a high number of cripples try concentrating on the base of the neck or even a little further out.  Might put the dense center of the pattern further forward on the birds.  If you still are having issues you might be shooting a little low also.  In that case imagine a golf ball hovering over the bird between the wings and the head.  I have a Beretta that likes it when I do that.  I'll likely have the barrel bent one of these days, but for now that works well.

[AspenBud]

It's expensive, but I would switch to Hevi Shot pheasant loads in #5 or #6. Unless you're a high volume shooter the cost shouldn't be too painful and you'll get results similar to lead.

You can get away with #7 and for ruffed grouse and quail. With pheasant it will most likely wound them. Your birds probably put their track shoes on and ran after they hit the ground. Not unusual at all with them and they can be fast.