Baiting on the chopping block

[Curly]

The popular permits will get lots of applicants regardless of how many choices we have. Question is, which hunts would see better odds and which hunts would the odds get worse? There's no way to predict that. But overall, odds would remain the same.

You may be able to predict it by going back before the category system was created and see how many applicants applied for various hunts.  Then compare to after the category system was implemented.  I remember Wacenturian posting about some hunt in the Blues where he used to draw all the time and then when it went to the category system he can't draw anymore because the amount of applicants has increased exponentially.   

[singleshot12]

Baiting is a fabulous way to start a youngster of with success.  Don't limit other's freedom just because you choose not to participate.

Success maybe? But does baiting teach a kid the life long skills of actual hunting?

The main concern of baiting is the spread of desease.

[jackelope]

Baiting is a fabulous way to start a youngster of with success.  Don't limit other's freedom just because you choose not to participate.

Success maybe? But does baiting teach a kid the life long skills of actual hunting?

The main concern of baiting is the spread of desease.

Sure can. Depends on the scenario. Can't hunt everywhere like a lot of us do out west. I've had to learn multiple styles of hunting because of where I've lived in my life. It may not be for everyone, but it is for some...and because of that, we should do what we can to keep it legal. Division is our worst enemy.

[Wacenturion]

One last comment....you want to have  a better chance of drawing your favorite permit.....one choice and one choice only.  Not four choices.  That is probably the worst thing that ever happened to the permit process.  By hey, it's not about you, it's all about $$$.

I'm not following that logic. Are you referring to four different categories (quality, buck, antlerless, etc.), or four hunt choices within one category?

If everyone has four hunt choices within a category, or everyone has only one choice why would that matter? Why would someone spend more to apply for four choices when everyone else also has four? How does that reduce draw odds? One choice, or four choices with four times the number of names in the hat?

Perhaps I misunderstood.

Primarily addressing one choice per category.  I'll use an example of my favorite permit....

Blu Mtn A and B....east or west...whatever ity's been called in the past 20 or so years.  Used to be 600 applicants putting in for 100 permits.  Generally get drawn every 3-4 years.  Add 3 additional choices by everyone for this type of permit statewide and you now have anywhere from 1700 to 2100 applicants for the same 100 permmits.  Then allow antlerless deer applicants to cross over and not lose their antlerless points if they put in and draw this same tag.  Now 2200-2400 applicants.  Lucky to get drawn every 10 years.

Sad thing is, like many 2nd to 4th choices, people aren't even familiar with the areas they draw on a lesser choice.  Same with other permit units unless you actually have spent time hunting them.  How many times have we seen as an example in this unit people draw and then ask...."not familiar with the area need help"....."didn't realize it was mostly private"....etc.  Lot of tag soup statewide in units because of this.

I put in for one choice and one choice only so I don't take a usable tag from someone whose favorite area is somewhere else.  Just refuse to do it.  It's all about money and using "useful idiots....us.

As a side note then let antlerless permit holders....100 of them hunt the area during the same time frame.  Good grief, if you need to harvest does do it during the general season, not during a quality rut hunt timeframe.  Just plain stupid and certainly not based on anything creditable.

[Wacenturion]

One choice instead of the two, or four, that we have now will not change the overall odds. It would increase odds for some hunts and decrease drawing odds for others. There's no way to know if your favorite hunt choice would become easier to draw.

 

[skeeter 20i]

Baiting is a fabulous way to start a youngster of with success.  Don't limit other's freedom just because you choose not to participate.

Success maybe? But does baiting teach a kid the life long skills of actual hunting?

The main concern of baiting is the spread of desease.

This kind of comment makes me laugh every time.  So exactly who is it that decides what "actual hunting" is?  You?   

Different strokes for different folks just because you don't agree with another style of hunting doesn't make that style wrong.  Let others hunt in the style they want, lawfully of course.
Too darn many people thinking they need to tell others how and what to do these days IMHO.

[bobcat]

One choice instead of the two, or four, that we have now will not change the overall odds. It would increase odds for some hunts and decrease drawing odds for others. There's no way to know if your favorite hunt choice would become easier to draw.

 

Like I said, I'd be okay with only one choice per application. I just don't feel it would make much difference on odds of drawing.

A few years ago they changed the number of choices in quality applications from four to two. Are quality permits easier to draw since that change? I don't know, but I doubt it.

[singleshot12]

Baiting is a fabulous way to start a youngster of with success.  Don't limit other's freedom just because you choose not to participate.

Success maybe? But does baiting teach a kid the life long skills of actual hunting?

The main concern of baiting is the spread of desease.

Sure can. Depends on the scenario. Can't hunt everywhere like a lot of us do out west. I've had to learn multiple styles of hunting because of where I've lived in my life. It may not be for everyone, but it is for some...and because of that, we should do what we can to keep it legal. Division is our worst enemy.

Personally I wouldn't want my kids first deer to be taken over a bait pile. I would want him to learn and hone the skills of tracking,stalking and everything that goes along with the non-bait method.
But I understand what you're saying.

[Bob33]

Baiting is a fabulous way to start a youngster of with success.  Don't limit other's freedom just because you choose not to participate.

Success maybe? But does baiting teach a kid the life long skills of actual hunting?

The main concern of baiting is the spread of desease.

Sure can. Depends on the scenario. Can't hunt everywhere like a lot of us do out west. I've had to learn multiple styles of hunting because of where I've lived in my life. It may not be for everyone, but it is for some...and because of that, we should do what we can to keep it legal. Division is our worst enemy.

Personally I wouldn't want my kids first deer to be taken over a bait pile. I would want him to learn and hone the skills of tracking,stalking and everything that goes on long with the non-bait method.
But I understand what you're saying.

I've never seen any studies on this topic; it would be interesting if someone did.

"When I was a kid", I hunted for years and years with my father without killing a big game animal. I hunted 15 years with him for elk, and saw one legal animal. I loved every minute of the experiences.

In today's instant gratification world, I believe it would be difficult for a young hunter to continue having an interest in hunting without more immediate success.

[singleshot12]

Baiting is a fabulous way to start a youngster of with success.  Don't limit other's freedom just because you choose not to participate.

Success maybe? But does baiting teach a kid the life long skills of actual hunting?

The main concern of baiting is the spread of desease.

This kind of comment makes me laugh every time.  So exactly who is it that decides what "actual hunting" is?  You?   

Different strokes for different folks just because you don't agree with another style of hunting doesn't make that style wrong.  Let others hunt in the style they want, lawfully of course.
Too darn many people thinking they need to tell others how and what to do these days IMHO.

I'm just having a hard time trying to relate baiting to fair chase hunting. To me each method is worlds apart. Oh no here we go again

[grundy53]

One choice instead of the two, or four, that we have now will not change the overall odds. It would increase odds for some hunts and decrease drawing odds for others. There's no way to know if your favorite hunt choice would become easier to draw.

How would it decrease the odds of any of them?

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[bobcat]

One choice instead of the two, or four, that we have now will not change the overall odds. It would increase odds for some hunts and decrease drawing odds for others. There's no way to know if your favorite hunt choice would become easier to draw.

How would it decrease the odds of any of them?

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

More people decide to pick a particular hunt for their one and only choice.

[singleshot12]

Baiting is a fabulous way to start a youngster of with success.  Don't limit other's freedom just because you choose not to participate.

Success maybe? But does baiting teach a kid the life long skills of actual hunting?

The main concern of baiting is the spread of desease.

Sure can. Depends on the scenario. Can't hunt everywhere like a lot of us do out west. I've had to learn multiple styles of hunting because of where I've lived in my life. It may not be for everyone, but it is for some...and because of that, we should do what we can to keep it legal. Division is our worst enemy.

Personally I wouldn't want my kids first deer to be taken over a bait pile. I would want him to learn and hone the skills of tracking,stalking and everything that goes on long with the non-bait method.
But I understand what you're saying.

I've never seen any studies on this topic; it would be interesting if someone did.

"When I was a kid", I hunted for years and years with my father without killing a big game animal. I hunted 15 years with him for elk, and saw one legal animal. I loved every minute of the experiences.

In today's instant gratification world, I believe it would be difficult for a young hunter to continue having an interest in hunting without more immediate success.

That's a lot of it right there "In todays instant gratification world".. Then maybe the young hunter wasn't meant to hunt if they loose interest. Learning traditional skills of hunting is far more important that the risk of a young hunter loosing interest IMO.

[grundy53]

One choice instead of the two, or four, that we have now will not change the overall odds. It would increase odds for some hunts and decrease drawing odds for others. There's no way to know if your favorite hunt choice would become easier to draw.

How would it decrease the odds of any of them?

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More people decide to pick a particular hunt for their one and only choice.

And you think that one pick wouldn't be one of the four they would pick if it stayed the same?

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[Curly]

The kid can learn traditional skills and the skill of pulling the trigger and taking care of the animal. I don't see any good reason to put restrictions on baiting with possible exception of limiting to a certain max.