Ethical to shoot past 400 yards at elk w/AR15 based rifle? Yes/No

[bobcat]

That's true. I've smelled a lot in this thread. No doubt about that. 

And there's plenty of others reading this thread who smell it as well, but they're either afraid to chime in or just smart enough to stay out of it.

[Karl Blanchard]

You can't tell someone who has done something or used something, how to do something or use something, if you have never personally been there done that.  Don't care what you read in a book or a magazine, or the internet.  If you aren't cool with it, fine, but don't try and argue with someone who has done it, quite effectively, that it can't be done or shouldn't be done.

[Karl Blanchard]

That's true. I've smelled a lot in this thread. No doubt about that. 

And there's plenty of others reading this thread who smell it as well, but they're either afraid to chime in or just smart enough to stay out of it.

What in this thread is b.s.? 

[bobcat]

The rifle is not really relevant. What matters is the bullet and the velocity. That's all anyone needs to know to judge how effective a particular cartridge might be on an elk standing at 600 yards. I don't think I need to have hunted with an AR15 in order to have an educated opinion on the topic.

[Karl Blanchard]

Specifically

[Karl Blanchard]

The rifle is not really relevant. What matters is the bullet and the velocity. That's all anyone needs to know to judge how effective a particular cartridge might be on an elk standing at 600 yards. I don't think I need to have hunted with an AR15 in order to have an educated opinion on the topic.

  Thats assuming all bullets perform the same, which they dont.  I know this because I have killed or broken down different animals shot with literally almost every modern, and traditional bullet available.

[JDHasty]

I have problems with advocating for the use of any AR15 for long range big game animals by people who are not expert in the practice and even more I see it as self proclaimed experts validating  that they have the skill set to do it.

I do not accept as ethical any implication that long range shooting of big game is something that any novice should feel comfortable attempting with any  AR15 capable cartridge.   

I leave this discussion tonight moving slightly in the direction of thinking it ethical for experts in the AR15 being justified in their choice of hunting at long range for big game with the above said rounds.  I am more firmly convinced that anyone who does not possess the skill set to make clean kills should not be encouraged to attempt to try to do so unless and until they have done what it takes to develop that skill set.   

[bobcat]

The rifle is not really relevant. What matters is the bullet and the velocity. That's all anyone needs to know to judge how effective a particular cartridge might be on an elk standing at 600 yards. I don't think I need to have hunted with an AR15 in order to have an educated opinion on the topic.

  Thats assuming all bullets perform the same, which they dont.  I know this because I have killed or broken down different animals shot with literally almost every modern, and traditional bullet available.

Why is the type of bullet relevant? I can load any kind of bullet in any cartridge I want. You like VLD's- I can shoot them out of my 270. In fact I killed my bighorn with my 270 and 140 grain Berger VLDs. (For those who say I have zero experience in everything I write on here)

So whatever magic bullet you can shoot from an AR I can shoot from my 270 or 30/06.

Maybe I'm missing your point? 

[BULLBLASTER]

I agree that if a person doesn't have the skill set to shoot long range and know what goes into that shot that attempt to take those shots at animals whether it be with a 6.5 ar or with a 338 lapua or for jackelope, a 50 bmg ar upper... 
Now with the skills and proper equipment and practice I see it as a perfectly doable shot.
 

[Karl Blanchard]

I have problems with advocating for the use of any AR15 for long range big game animals by people who are not expert in the practice and even more I see it as self proclaimed experts validating  that they have the skill set to do it.

I do not accept as ethical any implication that long range shooting of big game is something that any novice should feel comfortable attempting with any  AR15 capable cartridge.   

I leave this discussion tonight moving slightly in the direction of thinking it ethical for experts in the AR15 being justified in their choice of hunting at long range for big game with the above said rounds.  I am more firmly convinced that anyone who does not possess the skill set to make clean kills should not be encouraged to attempt to try to do so unless and until they have done what it takes to develop that skill set.   

  That goes for every hunter out there regardless of platform or caliber.  This is a standard whicch should go without saying.  Not a single person on this thread has said it's the ideal round.  With the proper bullet and placement it is absolutely adequate to cleanly kill large game.  People literally do it.  To deny this is to be dishonest.  Where everyone is hung up is your continual shift in position.  First it's about the round, then it's about the wind, then it's about the shooter, then the rest, etc.  I will kill within my ability with whatever weapon I have available that is up for the task.  If all I had was a 6.5G, guess what, I'm going elk hunting.

[BULLBLASTER]

The rifle is not really relevant. What matters is the bullet and the velocity. That's all anyone needs to know to judge how effective a particular cartridge might be on an elk standing at 600 yards. I don't think I need to have hunted with an AR15 in order to have an educated opinion on the topic.

  Thats assuming all bullets perform the same, which they dont.  I know this because I have killed or broken down different animals shot with literally almost every modern, and traditional bullet available.

Why is the type of bullet relevant? I can load any kind of bullet in any cartridge I want. You like VLD's- I can shoot them out of my 270. In fact I killed my bighorn with my 270 and 140 grain Berger VLDs. (For those who say I have zero experience in everything I write on here)

So whatever magic bullet you can shoot from an AR I can shoot from my 270 or 30/06.

Maybe I'm missing your point? 

the difference here is I don't give advice about what bullets will work best for a sheep. Because I have zero experience with shooting them. And for the record I never once said that you have zero experience with anything you post here. I'm sure you have more experience shooting sheep and antelope than I do. I did however give 2 examples where you give info where you (admittedly) have no first hand experience.

[Karl Blanchard]

The rifle is not really relevant. What matters is the bullet and the velocity. That's all anyone needs to know to judge how effective a particular cartridge might be on an elk standing at 600 yards. I don't think I need to have hunted with an AR15 in order to have an educated opinion on the topic.

  Thats assuming all bullets perform the same, which they dont.  I know this because I have killed or broken down different animals shot with literally almost every modern, and traditional bullet available.

Why is the type of bullet relevant? I can load any kind of bullet in any cartridge I want. You like VLD's- I can shoot them out of my 270. In fact I killed my bighorn with my 270 and 140 grain Berger VLDs. (For those who say I have zero experience in everything I write on here)

So whatever magic bullet you can shoot from an AR I can shoot from my 270 or 30/06.

Maybe I'm missing your point? 

Bullet 101, a 130 gr berger performs very differently at say 1600fps than a 130 gr Nosler Accubond.  You hit a bull in the side with an accubond at that velocity you get very little expansion therefore less damage.  You hit the same bull in the same spot at the same velocity with the vld, and you get bill Cosby strawberry jello for vitals.

I shoot vld's in one chambering by the way.  Partitions in others.  Accubonds in others.  And LRAB in my 300wsm.  You match the bullet to the duty.  If I'm gonna be hunting with a 6.5G and a mid range shot is going to be a possibility I'd be running a berger.  Close work would be an accubond.

[bobcat]

Okay, again, I can pick the ideal bullet for the job in a more powerful cartridge like a 30/06, just like you can with your AR.

Velocity and weight of bullet is still all I need to know in order to judge the effectiveness of a particular cartridge.

[Karl Blanchard]

Reminds me of the time a guy walked up to me in the turkey woods after I had shot a bird.  He walked in on my set and started trying to call the Tom from his roost.  I got that bird to pitch down and come my way.  Afterward the guy came up to me and started in on how my rythm was wrong, and I really need to work on my cadence.   I looked down at my dead bird, looked at him, looked at my dead bird again, and said "huh, this guy must have been a fluke then".

[Karl Blanchard]

Okay, again, I can pick the ideal bullet for the job in a more powerful cartridge like a 30/06, just like you can with your AR.

Velocity and weight of bullet is still all I need to know in order to judge the effectiveness of a particular cartridge.

Ya but we aren't talking about the 06', we are talking about the lethality of AR platform cartridges.  Focus man