2x2 Bucks only in Roosevelt, Harrington, and Steptoe

[muleyguy]

"One unit in he Methow had it in affect much earlier and very positive results were seen with it.  I know, I" was there as was Phool"

yes, I know, hunted it myself....my roomate lived in Twisp and new it well, personally, he and I didn't see much difference in it, but that was just us.  The differences were certainly not extreme, by any means, other then the fact that you saw a lot of 1.5 yr old bucks running around.

and that is exactly the point, it is hard to rely on individual hunters perceptions of things because you see one thing, I see another;  at the end of the day, you have to fall back on science. 

A good way to restore some of these 3 pt or better units back to any buck would be the following:  The first year  they should shorten the season to 5 days, and make it 2 pt or less.  This would "protect" all of the 2.5 yr olds, allowing them to become 3.5 yr olds; would protect all of the older age classes,  and, the shortened season would allow some of the 1.5 yr old bucks to make it through.  And, it would allow everybody to still go hunting.  The 2nd year following, they should restore it to the same season length and timing as before.  This will keep the buck to doe ratio's intact, or even slightly improve them, and put a tremendous amount of 3.5 yr old bucks into the population.  In a few years, my guess is that you would have a much higher number of mature animals in the population, and could probably expand the late season tags.

[huntnphool]

 Muleyguy, Why cant you simply answer the question, I think its because if you answer it truthfully you will be putting yourself in a hypocritical situation.

You stated;

The one management technique that has shown time and time again to produce more mature animals is a restriction in season length, season timing, and numbers of hunters.  WA has been able to achieve what few mature animals it does have by a drastically shortened season that falls in the middle of October.  That is the reason for the mature animals, not the 3pt minimum.

 My question to you was a simple one and it is a valid one as well. If last season you removed the 3 point min. you would have the exact "management technique" you are describing above. Under your superior "management technique" last year there would have been a hell of a lot more animals harvested thereby reducing the buck to doe ratio drastically and leaving even fewer bucks to mature for years to come, the outcome would repeat itself every year until a restriction would be necessary again.

 I agree with you that a 3 point min. alone is not the cure all. You come across as a intelligent person that wants the best for the future, I just find it extremely hard to believe that you cant see that without the restriction your technique would be more detrimental to the herd than with it.

You also indicated to me that other states have had great success with 3 pt minimum rules and that there was research out there supporting that.

 How about unit 270 in Montana for starters.

 

[bankwalker]

thats true,

what needs to be done again. drop the point restriction for a couple season. let the mature 2pts get taken out of the gene pool. there area alot of inmature 2pts out there right now that will only be 2pts. they need to be taken out.

after a couple seasons place the 3pt restriction back.

even if that has to be done every 5 years or so then so be it. we need to get those mature 2pts taken out of the gene pool.

if we keep the 3pt restriction in place now, then alot of mature bucks will be taken. alot of mature 3pts and bigger that we need to have mating. not a bunch of 2pts that we cant touch.

if that isnt the case, then at least make the late permit hunts any buck. i know i will take the first huge mature 2pt i see.

[bobcat]

if that isnt the case, then at least make the late permit hunts any buck. i know i will take the first huge mature 2pt i see.

The late mule deer hunts ARE for "any buck."

[boneaddict]

First of all, I am not in any other state.  I am not trying to adopt NM standards, Colorado, or Wyoming as this is niether of those.  Each state is unique in its issues.  I guess for instance I wouldn't want Wyomings because they are having horrible deer struggles.  Maybe they should institute some more antler restrictions since their current management techniques have hunting "success" at an all time low.  heck even Huntingfool (Garth)says don't waste your points this year there. It appears they have too many hunters in region G and H and trophy class animals are getting hard to come by.  Better go to draw only for those areas.

I thought very seriously about dumping a huge two point on my hunt Bank. 

[huntnphool]

Bank, thats an interesting idea, every 5 years or so At least they have finally realized the need to cull the poor genes, I still think they should make it a win/win situation and make it a full month, Oct. 15th-Nov. 15th, youth hunt. Obviously we would want them with adults but that would be outstanding for our young hunters.

[boneaddict]

Utah is having management hunts in a couple key areas this year to solve their problems with inferior bucks that get spared in the season because of larger bucks always being taken.  Could do a draw for the state 2 point restrictions for the Entiat and Methow included.  Offer 50 tags.   Utah burns points with theres.  Might be some folks that don't care and be willing to  burn theirs to get a chance to hunt.

[bankwalker]

if that isnt the case, then at least make the late permit hunts any buck. i know i will take the first huge mature 2pt i see.

The late mule deer hunts ARE for "any buck."

ah i see. i never payed attention to the late hunts.

in that case, there should be a few guys who wouldnt mind taking a mature 2pt...

but i guess the whole point 99% of people put in for those few hunts are to take a monster high scoring buck.

[bankwalker]

Bank, thats an interesting idea, every 5 years or so At least they have finally realized the need to cull the poor genes, I still think they should make it a win/win situation and make it a full month, Oct. 15th-Nov. 15th, youth hunt. Obviously we would want them with adults but that would be outstanding for our young hunters.

yeah. there is really nothing that says hunting seasons have to be the same every single season...

ive got tons of stupid ideas. more then i can sit and type without getting a headache from looking at the comp lol.

here are a few of them.

make all 200 series gmu's ANY buck for youth hunters. do this for 5 years. that right there will get rid of alot of bucks with poor genes. give the youth of our sport something to really look forward to. OR at least make it 2pt or better for youth.

take away all late season mule deer hunts. flat out. no permits no nothing. give the mature bucks a chance to mate and past on genes. even if those bucks have poor genes and never get to be big bucks. the more bucks we have mating the more chance of having more bucks...simple enough.

again. drop the point restriction to 2pt or better, i would love to see those big mature 2pts get taken out. them being the mature bucks passing on those 2pt genes is just no good at all for us. plain and simple. sooner or late we are gonna have just big 2pts running around that we cant touch. UNLESS you get draw for a late tag and even then who in thier right mind is gonna take a big 2pt over a big 4pt...

idk i have no idea about the science behind the point restrictions, or how they set seasons, or decide the number of tags to be given out. \

i just know im a hunter, i hunt my butt off every year on the east side. mainly units 328, 335, 336, 340 for mule deer. and every season i get blanked...luck to see a few bucks that are legal. let alone get them into range and to hold still long enough to even get the thought of shooting.

[huntnphool]

i just know im a hunter, i hunt my butt off every year on the east side. mainly units 328, 335, 336, 340 for mule deer. and every season i get blanked...

The questions is, without a 3 point restriction would you have been blanked this past year?

[bankwalker]

1 more idea.

this is set in a couple gmu's for archery...this could work out really good if done properly...

the season as it is right now is short for mule deer. 90% of us complain about it.

make the 1st half of the season 3pt or better...the 2nd half of the season any buck OR 2pt or better. (archery is 3pt or better, and antlerless) AND THEN. add one more week to the season.

again...

try out different season settings, weather they are right or wrong. you will see the impact in a couple seasons. if its for the best then leave them...if they are for the worst. well *censored* change them. if our wonderfull biologist really know what they are talking about then they should have no problem seeing a change in the deer numbers and whats being taken just after 1 season...

[bankwalker]

i just know im a hunter, i hunt my butt off every year on the east side. mainly units 328, 335, 336, 340 for mule deer. and every season i get blanked...

The questions is, without a 3 point restriction would you have been blanked this past year?

well i would have had alot more chances at taking a buck thats forsure. this season i only seen a couple legal bucks out of those given units. the rests were ALL 2pts...

the couple legal bucks i did see were in the high country in unit 335.

along with 10-13 other guys i talked to this season. they aswell were seeing more 2pts then anything.

[BIGDOG]

When talking point restrictions,think about the fact that if a 1 1/2 yr old is a straight spike they are a lesser gene and should be taken out,so let the youth, which is I think
15 and under shoot them!Also cut back on the late any buck permits for a few years!
just my :twocents:Jerry

[BIGDOG]

Me and my son hunted private property in the Harrington unit by Odessa this last year
and several 3 point and a few 4 points were taken off the property,total of about 12 bucks,the last few days of the season all we were seeing were spikes and 2 points,about 25 to 30 in one heard of about 100+,if it were open for any buck in this
particular area I am sure half of the bucks that were harvested would have been spike or 2 point so next year there would have been more mature bucks,and the mature bucks that were not taken would have done more of the breeding!Considering it was private land it might not be relative to public land?

[Elkstuffer]

Utah is having management hunts in a couple key areas this year to solve their problems with inferior bucks that get spared in the season because of larger bucks always being taken. 

Idaho has a general rifle hunt in the Owyhees in the southwest corner for 2 pt max. This area is also noted for  deer in the 30 to 40 inch range during a wet year. It's obviously working down there, getting rid of some inferior bucks.