Bird dog vs. chickens

[Colin]

I think that train-ability and prey-drive have a lot to do with it.  Labs and goldens make excellent service dogs because they can be taught very easily to ignore distractions.  Their train-ability over rides their prey-drive.  On a blind retrieve you can train a Lab to bypass a dead pile on the down wind side to where you you want him to look for the fall.  A spanial or VHD it is a lot harder to train to bypass a dead bird he know is there because his mission is to find a dead bird.  The labs mission is to go where he is commanded to and then look for the bird.

When you look at trials and hunt tests, retriever trials are based on train-ability and spanial/pointing dogs trials are more natural ability based.

I agree with a lot of this but a lab is training to go where told regardless of factors on a blind. A mark is totally different. They should idependently find the bird on the straightest route.

Seems like most spaniel or pointer guys train for upland and not retrieving. Those few that do both can get their dogs to do the same work as labs it's just very few do this.

I don't think that the birdy upland dogs are any more birdy than a birdy retriever. Maybe the def of birdyness is just different between upland and retrievers.

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[heronblu]

I've got a heeler/coon hound mix who is a great birder and we have a flock of free range hens. She's not perfect but she knows not to touch the pet birds. I trained her with a long line and a garden hose. I would have her and the bird in the yard and when she started to go for the bird I'd yank her back and squirt her in the face with the hose. When I trained her to retrieve, my gun was always out and I had plenty of treats on hand.  Now she knows that unless I've got a gun in hand then birds are off limits. It took a lot of work but it's paid off.

[87Ford]

I should add that I only use my two Labs in the uplands, specifically chasing wild roosters.  I don't think breaking your dog from chasing the chickens in the yard would have much, if any, negative affect on retrieving..  Since I mainly run my dogs on pheasants, I want them as aggressive and birdy as possible.  The notion of "breaking" or training a high prey drive flushing Lab from his interest in chickens just doesn't make sense to me.  It would never be my intention to train my upland dogs so that they are "barnyard buddies" with the chickens.  I want my dogs looking for birds as soon as they hit the ground..  Pheasants, pigeons, grouse, CHICKENS..

Let's take our bird dog and nick him with the collar or spray water on him for doing what comes natural, good idea   NOT in my opinion..

[Don Fischer]

I've got two E. Setter's and a Red Setter. Have had chickens a long time. My E. Setters are coming 9 yr old any my Red is 2 1/2 yrs, none of them bother the chickens. Of course I brought them home at 8 wks and they are around chicken's all the time. Years past I've had a lot of dogs here, shorthairs, Britt's pointer's  never had a lot of problems with the chickens but I would not have trusted them the way I do the present dog's. But if no dog's were loose, the chicke's were and they learned to stay away from the dog's! I had a young short hair here some years ago and he got good about leaving them alone if I was watching. When I wasn't he'd catch them and bring them to me! Best way is I think, get them around chicken's when they are eight or nine weeks old and the chicken's will teach them. Four pound hen can give an eight or nine week old pup religion!

[heronblu]

I should add that I only use my two Labs in the uplands, specifically chasing wild roosters.  I don't think breaking your dog from chasing the chickens in the yard would have much, if any, negative affect on retrieving..  Since I mainly run my dogs on pheasants, I want them as aggressive and birdy as possible.  The notion of "breaking" or training a high prey drive flushing Lab from his interest in chickens just doesn't make sense to me.  It would never be my intention to train my upland dogs so that they are "barnyard buddies" with the chickens.  I want my dogs looking for birds as soon as they hit the ground..  Pheasants, pigeons, grouse, CHICKENS..

Let's take our bird dog and nick him with the collar or spray water on him for doing what comes natural, good idea   NOT in my opinion..

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I too am a primarily upland bird hunter (rabbits too). My dog's going to have that prey drive in her regardless of whether or not I try and "break her" of it. All I am doing is letting her know that there is a time and a place to unleash it, and she is a great bird and rabbit dog. I'm not saying it it the best method but it worked for my dog and I've got the meat in the freezer to prove it.

[weathergirl]

I'm just going to show some ignorance here.  When many people talk about their dogs killing chickens, I'm curious how that translates to the field.  My actual duck or pheasant hunting experience is limited compared to many of you, but if you have a dog that is out to kill birds, how do they retrieve them without "chewing them up" or mangling them or anything like that?  If a dog both kills chickens but also brings back a bird without destroying it, it almost seems like they already know the difference?

I mean I get what some of you are saying...don't push it for fear the dog loses birdiness...but I'm just curious if the same dogs that kill chickens are also a little less than gentle with ducks or pheasants, etc.   

No one has really addressed this question, and I've been curious since I posted it.  What if you throw your dog and dead birds in the back of the truck...is your dog going to tear the dead bird up?  Is that what prey-drive is?  What if your bird is sitting out on the deck waiting to be cleaned and your dog is out alone with it.  These are also scenarios that we don't have to worry about, but I'm wondering if others do.  The same obedient part of my dog that can ignore a chicken, also knows that the dead bird is no longer hers.  The ability to avoid a distraction in no way reduces prey-drive.  I can't imagine Amber having more prey-drive than she has, unless I'm not understanding the definition of the term.  She finds the bird;  she gets the bird.  Period.  But the rules are:  no chickens, no chewing on dead birds...basically just following the rules and being polite and respectful. 

But back to my question, so these same dogs that aren't made to leave chickens alone, are they able to leave harvested birds alone?

[heronblu]

Ill speak again for my dog and my dog alone. She has little interest in birds once they are already dead. The prey drive seems to stem from her smelling them and then flushing them. Rabbits on the other hand are something that she has trouble not chewing on once she gets a hold of them. I have to get the rabbits from her quickly and or she mouths them up and will eventually eat them (like I said earlier, she is not perfect).

[weathergirl]

She's not happy with the situation clearly, but she's obedient.   

[KFhunter]

Mine could not do that, no way no how  *gulp* innocent look

[weathergirl]

Mine could not do that, no way no how  *gulp* innocent look

 

[lokidog]

I should add that I only use my two Labs in the uplands, specifically chasing wild roosters.  I don't think breaking your dog from chasing the chickens in the yard would have much, if any, negative affect on retrieving..  Since I mainly run my dogs on pheasants, I want them as aggressive and birdy as possible.  The notion of "breaking" or training a high prey drive flushing Lab from his interest in chickens just doesn't make sense to me.  It would never be my intention to train my upland dogs so that they are "barnyard buddies" with the chickens.  I want my dogs looking for birds as soon as they hit the ground..  Pheasants, pigeons, grouse, CHICKENS..

Let's take our bird dog and nick him with the collar or spray water on him for doing what comes natural, good idea   NOT in my opinion..

We've never done either of these to train our dogs not to chase the chickens.  A low voiced, "leave it alone" seems to be enough.  Having said that, our Goldens have grown up from pups with the chickens around.  It may be a tougher sell to get an adult bird dog to not go after the chickens.  However, my healer/lab mix was an adult (four or five) when I got chickens, and she had no issues being smart enough to tell the difference between a chicken in the yard and a duck/pheasant/quail in the field, but did have to be reminded to "leave them alone...."

Do your dogs chase sparrows or robins in the field?  Probably not since you have not focused or encouraged them to do so, seems like the same thing to me.   

[lokidog]

It's not a newsflash but a real bird dog will be tough to break of it. My dad had a German shorthair he beat,whipped,hung dead chickens on her collar until they rotted off. It wasn't until she came home shot through the face from the neighbor at the age of 8 she smarten up. I had some trouble with my springers as well. I have owned more than one dog that were easy to break of it. Those individuals were never thought of by me as high drive bird getting machines. Like my neighbor told me " IF you have a hunting dog that you can leave run around the yard unattended, it ain't no huntin dog". Yup I've owned more than a couple.

Really?  Hard to even respond to that.... Although, I think your comment "It wasn't until she came home shot through the face from the neighbor at the age of 8 she smarten up." might be the answer, not a very bright dog? 

Seems like results will vary regardless of what you do. If you teach them to leave the chickens alone a certain way then it may likely effect their birdyness. Teach them a different way and it likely wont.

This is probably quite accurate.

To the OP, just get a chick or two, let the dog sniff it, hang out with it, eat its poop in a supervised location, I think you will find it will work out fine.

[Bullkllr]

I'm just going to show some ignorance here.  When many people talk about their dogs killing chickens, I'm curious how that translates to the field.  My actual duck or pheasant hunting experience is limited compared to many of you, but if you have a dog that is out to kill birds, how do they retrieve them without "chewing them up" or mangling them or anything like that?  If a dog both kills chickens but also brings back a bird without destroying it, it almost seems like they already know the difference?

I mean I get what some of you are saying...don't push it for fear the dog loses birdiness...but I'm just curious if the same dogs that kill chickens are also a little less than gentle with ducks or pheasants, etc.   

No one has really addressed this question, and I've been curious since I posted it.  What if you throw your dog and dead birds in the back of the truck...is your dog going to tear the dead bird up?  Is that what prey-drive is?  What if your bird is sitting out on the deck waiting to be cleaned and your dog is out alone with it.  These are also scenarios that we don't have to worry about, but I'm wondering if others do.  The same obedient part of my dog that can ignore a chicken, also knows that the dead bird is no longer hers.  The ability to avoid a distraction in no way reduces prey-drive.  I can't imagine Amber having more prey-drive than she has, unless I'm not understanding the definition of the term.  She finds the bird;  she gets the bird.  Period.  But the rules are:  no chickens, no chewing on dead birds...basically just following the rules and being polite and respectful. 

But back to my question, so these same dogs that aren't made to leave chickens alone, are they able to leave harvested birds alone?

I intended to respond to your question earlier:

"My current lab has never brought me a dead duck or pheasant that was a confirmed live cripple. So regarding chickens, perhaps "kill" is a little strong. It would probably be more like chase, catch, retrieve, then repeat until you're out of chickens.

From limited data available, I'm guessing this game would not be good for the chicken team."

Only time he has messed with a dead bird was on a long ride home. He fished a bird out of my vest. It was considerably wet, but otherwise intact.

Another time, a friends lab and my Brittany were in the back of the truck for awhile. When we got home, one of the birds had the entire breast cleanly eaten. We ran a "breathilizer" and the only dog with pheasant breath was my brit. Only time she ever did anything like that.

I think for dogs not raised around chickens or other fowl the 'see bird, chase bird, catch bird' habit might take considerable time and effort to break. For me, it's not a priority.

[idaho guy]

I didn't read all responses but my favorite hound and best cat dog would sleep with my house cat but would die trying to tree or kill etc a bobcat or mountain lion . Dogs are smarter than we know I think and that plott proved it to me she knew the house cat was deemed ok and they slept together. I have young hounds right now who have killed a few chickens! We are just shocking them since we have no worries and never want them to chase birds. I think you could train bird dogs on game birds and break them off chickens with no harm to hunting ability

[Happy Gilmore]

Labs pee on dead birds, goldens roll on them and chessies keep the rest of them from stealing them