What are the laws actually for shipping a rifle?

[KFhunter]

 

guess I missed something?  I've been distracted.

modified it thanks Boss 300 winmag

[Bob33]

I think shipping the guns out of WA wouldn't be an issue, your biggest hurdle will be the shipper.  Who's taking possession of the guns in AK since you won't be there? 


FROM: Teacherman WA

TO:  Teacherman AK
C/O  Teacherman's buddy in AK


Teacherman's buddy can then take possession of the box (with ID) and hold it until Teacherman gets there, Teacherman's buddy can't legally open the box - which constitutes taking possession of the firearms.

Where are you reading this senerio into the process?

I believe that teacher mans dad will ship to teacher man in AK.

 

Shipping to myself... From one personal residence to another. ME to ME lol..

[jackelope]

The requirements of I-594 are reflected in RCW 9.41.113

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.113

Transfers between family members are exempt, if the transfer is a bona fide gift.

Well there you go, no FFL needed. Thanks Bob33. 

Take it to UPS and ship away.

2 things.
1-Ship it via USPS. UPS sucks.
2-It's not all about I-594 because it's crossing state lines, so at that point it becomes federal.

I think shipping the guns out of WA wouldn't be an issue, your biggest hurdle will be the shipper.  Who's taking possession of the guns in AK since you won't be there? 


FROM: Teacherman WA

TO:  Teacherman AK
C/O  Teacherman's buddy in AK


Teacherman's buddy can then take possession of the box (with ID) and hold it until Teacherman gets there, Teacherman's buddy can't legally open the box - which constitutes taking possession of the firearms.

Where are you reading this senerio into the process?

I believe that teacher mans dad will ship to teacher man in AK.

 

Shipping to myself... From one personal residence to another. ME to ME lol..

I realize that for all intents and purposes, he's shipping it to himself and it probably doesn't matter much, but unless he's there to "actually do the shipping", is he really shipping to himself?
What would the ATF say to that question?
Really I don't care. I might or might not have done the same thing myself at one point in time...but I just guess for the sake of conversation, if a guy were to follow the letter of the law, how does it lay out?

[Bob33]

I realize that for all intents and purposes, he's shipping it to himself and it probably doesn't matter much, but unless he's there to "actually do the shipping", is he really shipping to himself?
What would the ATF say to that question?
Really I don't care. I might or might not have done the same thing myself at one point in time...but I just guess for the sake of conversation, if a guy were to follow the letter of the law, how does it lay out?

6. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State?
Any person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.

https://www.atf.gov/file/61721/download

[Boss .300 winmag]

Here you go.

http://americanshootingjournal.com/a-ups-drivers-suggestions-for-shipping-firearms/

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

[Rainier10]

I would love to know how 594 applies to this one.  Even if he is shipping it to himself, when he gives the package to USPS or UPS, at that point who has "possession" of the firearm?  Ownership hasn't changed but I would think possession has changed.

FYI 594 is dumb.  It will be interesting to see if it is ever tested in a court of law to the letter of the law.

[jackelope]

I realize that for all intents and purposes, he's shipping it to himself and it probably doesn't matter much, but unless he's there to "actually do the shipping", is he really shipping to himself?
What would the ATF say to that question?
Really I don't care. I might or might not have done the same thing myself at one point in time...but I just guess for the sake of conversation, if a guy were to follow the letter of the law, how does it lay out?

6. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State?
Any person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.

https://www.atf.gov/file/61721/download

I saw that. The question is, he's not shipping it. His dad is. So it's pretty much the opposite of the scenario posted in the description of the law. I'm not sure if you're saying it's legal or not legal.
His dad is shipping it to him. It's not arriving from him in care of anyone until he gets there, it's leaving from the care of someone else to him. For all intents and purposes, it might as well be me shipping a rifle to him unless there is an immediate family clause in the federal law.
 

[jackelope]

I would love to know how 594 applies to this one.  Even if he is shipping it to himself, when he gives the package to USPS or UPS, at that point who has "possession" of the firearm?  Ownership hasn't changed but I would think possession has changed.

FYI 594 is dumb.  It will be interesting to see if it is ever tested in a court of law to the letter of the law.

But 594 doesn't apply to this as it's his dad, and it's federal(crossing state lines).

[Rainier10]

I would love to know how 594 applies to this one.  Even if he is shipping it to himself, when he gives the package to USPS or UPS, at that point who has "possession" of the firearm?  Ownership hasn't changed but I would think possession has changed.

FYI 594 is dumb.  It will be interesting to see if it is ever tested in a court of law to the letter of the law.

But 594 doesn't apply to this as it's his dad, and it's federal(crossing state lines).

Technically he doesn't possess the firearm as soon as he gives it to the guy behind the counter at USPS.  It's not an issue in any other state because they don't have this law.

I can't give you a gun to take to my wife.  I can give a gun to my wife but as soon as you step into the loop it messes everything up.  Same thing should technically apply to the guy at the USPS counter and everyone that touches the package after that.

Would they really ever charge and convict someone for that type of violation?  I doubt it but "technically" I think they could.

[Bob33]

I would love to know how 594 applies to this one.  Even if he is shipping it to himself, when he gives the package to USPS or UPS, at that point who has "possession" of the firearm?  Ownership hasn't changed but I would think possession has changed.

FYI 594 is dumb.  It will be interesting to see if it is ever tested in a court of law to the letter of the law.

But 594 doesn't apply to this as it's his dad, and it's federal(crossing state lines).

Technically he doesn't possess the firearm as soon as he gives it to the guy behind the counter at USPS.  It's not an issue in any other state because they don't have this law.

I can't give you a gun to take to my wife.  I can give a gun to my wife but as soon as you step into the loop it messes everything up.  Same thing should technically apply to the guy at the USPS counter and everyone that touches the package after that.

Would they really ever charge and convict someone for that type of violation?  I doubt it but "technically" I think they could.

You are correct; there is no explicit exception for "transferring" a firearm to someone who will ship it for him.

FYI RCW 9.41.113 does apply to inter-state transfers, as long as either the transferor or transferee is in Washington.

"All firearm sales or transfers, in whole or part in this state including without limitation a sale or transfer where either the purchaser or seller or transferee or transferor is in Washington, shall be subject to background checks unless specifically exempted by state or federal law. "

[KFhunter]

it's a conundrum.

Dad is in possession now, assuming he had them prior to I-594 they're essentially dad's guns.  Since Teacherman has a residence in both states he can take possession in either state, since it's a family member he could transfer possession in WA then mail to himself in AK.  Or Dad could mail to himself in AK then Teacherman take possession there since in AK possession is 9/10's the law 

As long as the transfer of ownership doesn't take place while in transit, or as part of the transit  (mailing from one person to another) - ATF and FFL transfer rules doesn't apply.  You can "care of" someone though but the TO: and FROM: must be the same.


anyways that's my  take 

[TeacherMan]

Sounds like I'm just going to wait and fly with them, I can be patient lol.

[Boss .300 winmag]

These threads never turn out good, you guys are killing me.  :beatdeadhorse

Do you guys think this is the first gun shipped out of state since I-594.

It's not, so everyone that was shipped was illegal?

If an FFL ships to FFL, some joe blow other than an FFL had custody, possession of in transit, was that illegal, NO.

SO WHY WOULD IT BE ILLEGAL FOR HIS DAD TO SHIP HIM HIS GUN TO HIM IN AK?

It's legal for his dad to have possession of his gun according to I-594, the Feds say it's legal to ship, and AK doesn't have stupid I-594 law.

[KFhunter]

These threads never turn out good, you guys are killing me.  :beatdeadhorse

Do you guys think this is the first gun shipped out of state since I-594.

It's not, so everyone that was shipped was illegal?

If an FFL ships to FFL, some joe blow other than an FFL had custody, possession of in transit, was that illegal, NO.

SO WHY WOULD IT BE ILLEGAL FOR HIS DAD TO SHIP HIM HIS GUN TO HIM IN AK?

It's legal for his dad to have possession of his gun according to I-594, the Feds say it's legal to ship, and AK doesn't have stupid I-594 law.

I don't disagree, these threads are always cloudy because shippers aren't very consistent.  Federal and State regulations aren't the issue as I said in the first post, the problem is with the shipper.  The person behind the shipping counter doesn't always know the law either.

I don't see where we've differed in our advice.

[Boss .300 winmag]

I shipped some ammo this week, and the young lady at the UPS counter wasn't sure about it, till I told here that online sales shipped comes from either UPS, or FEDEX. Then she checked, and said your right let me package that up for you. Only weird thing is she said it had to be dropped off at thier shipping hub like 5 blocks away.

I bet most FFL shipping the shipper picks up the guns at the stores, or place of business so the shipping stores don't have much experience in it, but they can learn.