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Author Topic: Reintroducing Grizzlies  (Read 38610 times)

Offline Southpole

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2017, 11:14:55 AM »
I too have seen grizzlies in Washington and know of numerous animals others have seen. I wouldn't be opposed to having a managed grizzly population in remote areas. But the problem is that the animal rights groups and liberals will use grizzlies as a tool to lock up access and restrict hunting. For these reasons I am forced to oppose grizzly introductions! :twocents:
It's the absolutely the last "tool" the enviros are going to use to limit and or shut down hunting altogether, it's pretty clear to me  :dunno:
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 06:48:39 PM by Southpole »
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Offline Special T

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2017, 11:46:20 AM »
I kinda posted my notes so let me write up a little recap of the comments.
There was the usual crowd in support of predators Wolf haven international,DoW, a bear bio and some people claiming to have lived in AK that wolves and bears were no big deal.
I was surprised by 2 things. 1st the USFS originally had NO intention of having a meeting in Skagit County. Not a shocker that Bellingham, Renton and other urban areas were on the original list. 2 there was a fair ammount of dissent from un expected groups. A long time member of the Alpine Club, the director of Friends of Skagit county speaking for herself. They are a conservation group and she mentioned some technical failings  of DEIS acronym. Don't know what it means but her complaint was mostly in regards to cost projections being represented inaccurately.

There were several residents  who pounced on the fact that Elk were transplanted  into the area. They didn't stay in the mountains like they told us, and management isn't doing a very good job. How will Grizzlies be any different?

Gary from Citizens Alliance for Property Rights gave the most informed retort to the need to transplant wolves. I will be in contact with him so that I can share the information he presented.

Commisioners present for all or the comments were Ken Dalstedt   a fairly conservative Democrat commisioners, Lisa Janicki, & Ron Wesen.

I've met Ken before and in most cases is a fairly thought out commisioners. I don't know either of the other 2, however I haven't been particularly impressed with Lisa. The large Janicki family employs a lot of people and she spent a lot of $ to get the seat, we'll in excess of the wages for the job. The things I've heard were not complementary.
In archery we have something like the way of the superior man. When the archer misses the center of the target, he turns round and seeks for the cause of his failure in himself. 

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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2017, 12:02:07 PM »
Thanks for the report
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Offline kevinlisa06

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #78 on: February 22, 2017, 03:31:25 PM »
Meet February 23rd 6:00 pm Sultan High School

Offline kevinlisa06

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2017, 03:32:41 PM »
Also a meeting tonight in Darrington at 6:00 aswell

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #80 on: February 22, 2017, 04:12:47 PM »
So they are going to hold 2 meetings the same day? One in darrington one down town MV? I would love to go, but I'm not sure I'm well versed enough on the subject to be a great voice on the issue. Perhaps I could go and just report on it.

There is no voice, it's an open house with a bunch of banners you can read along with a few employees that you can ask questions. At least that is how the cashmere one was set up. Quite the joke  :twocents:
They're just letting the public know what they ARE going to do, they don't care to hear your opinion. It's a done deal.

exactly, they are just going through the motions so they can say they held public meetings, that's how they do everything now  :twocents:
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Offline garrett89

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #81 on: February 22, 2017, 05:06:25 PM »
I also think it's a ploy to lock up lands.
Right? Can't shoot wolves because they're wolves. Next can't shoot a grizzly because it's a grizzly. They might as well start a war with gun/bow/muzzle loader owners/hunters.

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2017, 05:33:08 PM »
So they are going to hold 2 meetings the same day? One in darrington one down town MV? I would love to go, but I'm not sure I'm well versed enough on the subject to be a great voice on the issue. Perhaps I could go and just report on it.

There is no voice, it's an open house with a bunch of banners you can read along with a few employees that you can ask questions. At least that is how the cashmere one was set up. Quite the joke  :twocents:
They're just letting the public know what they ARE going to do, they don't care to hear your opinion. It's a done deal.

exactly, they are just going through the motions so they can say they held public meetings, that's how they do everything now  :twocents:

 :yeah:

Wolves were brought in to ruin ranching and hunting, the grizzly bear is being brought in to close down mass public lands. Watch and see.


Offline Special T

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2017, 08:03:08 PM »
Some additional information I gathered today. Ron Wesen is a dairy farmer and his family has been for a long time I belive in the Bow area.
If your a Skagit County residents I highly recomend writing them. The main purpose for the meeting was so the commissioners  could listen to residents before they make thier recommendation. I'm in favor of Option A do nothing.
commissioners@co.skagit.wa.us
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Offline X-Force

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2017, 08:31:01 PM »
Some additional information I gathered today. Ron Wesen is a dairy farmer and his family has been for a long time I belive in the Bow area.
If your a Skagit County residents I highly recomend writing them. The main purpose for the meeting was so the commissioners  could listen to residents before they make thier recommendation. I'm in favor of Option A do nothing.
commissioners@co.skagit.wa.us

Thanks for the update!
People get offended at nothing at all. So, speak your mind and be unapologetic.

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2017, 11:20:46 AM »
SEATTLE — The National Park Service said Thursday it will consider moving grizzly bears into the North Cascade Mountains of Washington state to aid their recovery.

The agency is launching a three-year process to study a variety of options for helping their population. Director Jonathan B. Jarvis stressed that the process is required under federal law but no decision had been made.

Native American tribes and conservation groups have pressed for years for the federal government to do more to bring back the bears.

"It marks the potential turning point in the decades-long decline of the last grizzly bears remaining on the U.S. West Coast," Joe Scott, international conservation director of Conservation Northwest, said in a written statement. "Without recovery efforts, these bears may soon be gone forever."

Numerous grizzly bears roamed north-central Washington state in the past, but early settlers and trappers killed thousands for fur in the mid-19th century. The region's booming population has also encroached on their habitat.

The tribes have cited their cultural connection to the bears in urging their preservation.

Federal authorities listed the grizzly bear as threatened in the lower 48 states in 1975 and ultimately designated five areas in Washington, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming to focus on boosting the population.

A small population of grizzlies exists in Washington's Selkirk Mountains, and the park service says the animals have been seen recently in the Cascades north of the Canadian border. But they haven't been seen in the Washington Cascades in years.

Officials have been looking hard, too. In the past three years, they've set up "hair-snare" traps — basically bait surrounded by stretches of barbed wire that snag samples of a bear's hair — in about one-third of the North Cascades region. The traps have produced many samples of black bear hair, as confirmed by DNA tests, but no grizzly hair, said Bob Everitt, northwest Washington regional director of the state Fish and Wildlife Department.

"It doesn't mean there aren't grizzly bears, but it sure suggests they're pretty rare," Everitt said.

In 1997, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service added a chapter on the North Cascades to its grizzly bear recovery plan. The document said that within five years, authorities should evaluate options for recovering bears in the region, which covers a 9,800-square-mile swath of north-central Washington state, including the eastern and western slopes of the Cascades, North Cascades National Park, Lake Chelan National Recreation Area, Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest and Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest.

It suggested that a sustainable grizzly population in the North Cascades might be about 200 to 400 bears.

Since that chapter was added, some work has been done to improve conditions for grizzlies in the North Cascades that mainly involved securing garbage to keep bears away from humans, Everitt said.

"There's only so much you can do when you don't have any bears," he added.

A Washington Farm Bureau spokesman sounded a note of caution.

"Grizzly bears are incredible, wonderful animals," Tom Davis, Farm Bureau director of government relations, told The Seattle Times. "I just wouldn't want them living next door to me, and I think that's how farmers and ranchers ... feel."

Even though recovery efforts will occur primarily on federal lands, nearby private landowners are likely to be affected, said Jack Field, executive vice president of the Washington Cattlemen's Association.

Ranchers in the northeastern part of the state are already dealing with livestock losses caused by the return of wolf packs, Field told The Times.

Lawmakers made clear in the mid-1990s that they didn't want bears introduced in the state. A law passed at the time directs the Fish and Wildlife Department to work to encourage the natural recovery of grizzly populations but says: "Grizzly bears shall not be transplanted or introduced into the state. Only grizzly bears that are native to Washington state may be utilized by the department for management programs. "

The park service said it would work with the U.S. Forest Service, the state and the public in making any decisions, including about whether to bring grizzlies into the area.

"Grizzly bears are controversial," Everitt said. "We want to make sure everyone is heard on this issue before it gets concluded."


http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/8f309f099f2c4f09921663addd4ddc57/WA--Grizzly-Bear-Reintroduction

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, any copyrighted material herein is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml


"Lawmakers made clear in the mid-1990s that they didn't want bears introduced in the state. A law passed at the time directs the Fish and Wildlife Department to work to encourage the natural recovery of grizzly populations but says: "Grizzly bears shall not be transplanted or introduced into the state. Only grizzly bears that are native to Washington state may be utilized by the department for management programs. "

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2017, 11:26:29 AM »

Offline wolfbait

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2017, 12:06:01 PM »
http://www.capitalpress.com/Washington/20150306/county-may-sue-to-stop-grizzly-restoration

County may sue to stop grizzly restoration

Dan WheatCapital Press
Published on March 6, 2015 9:03AM
Last changed on March 9, 2015 11:23AM

Okanogan County commissioners say they may sue to stop grizzly bear restoration in the North Cascades. Chelan County commissioners also oppose the idea put forth by federal and state agencies.


Dan Wheat/Capital Press Monte and Judy Olson, East Wenatchee, at right, listen to Hilary Cooley of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service talk about grizzlies at the agency open house in Wenatchee, Wash., March 5.
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Dan Wheat/Capital Press Karen Taylor-Goodrich, superintendent of North Cascades National Park Service Complex, left, talks with Chelan County Commissioner Doug England at grizzly bear recovery open house in Wenatchee, Wash., March 5.
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Dan Wheat/Capital Press Chris Servheen, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service grizzly bear recovery coordinator, Missoula, Mont., at Wenatchee, Wash., grizzly recovery open house, March 5.

OKANOGAN, Wash. — Okanogan County commissioners are exploring the possibility of a lawsuit to prevent the U.S. Department of Interior from restoring grizzly bears to the North Cascades.

“We think we have uncovered enough of where they did not follow procedure and process. They’re no different than their commander in D.C. running rogue with his pencil and phone. Yes, Obama,” said Jim DeTro, Okanogan County commissioner.

The county was talking to state legislators in Olympia about its options after the National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service held open houses in Winthrop on March 3 and in Okanogan on March 4 to help them determine whether to take an active role in grizzly restoration. It could include moving grizzlies into the North Cascades from other places in the U.S. and Canada.

Commissioners strongly oppose restoration and say a majority of county residents do. Ranchers, back country horsemen, ATV users, hobby farmers and rural residents don’t want another apex predator to worry about, DeTro said.

About 100 people attended the open house in Okanogan, he said.

“It’s a very, very disgruntled public. They’re not happy with the process. It was set up so you really couldn’t comment. It’s divide and conquer. They diffuse the situation as best they can so they can check the box when they go back to wherever they go and say, ‘Yes we had a meeting in Okanogan County,’” DeTro said.

There was no general forum for oral presentations by federal employees or public comment. Instead, multiple stations were set up where people could get information and interact with state and federal agency employees and then put written comments in a box.

“Dal Dagnon (a Tonasket rancher) took a mic and gave them a pretty good talking to,” DeTro said.

“These people shove this stuff at Okanogan County as a poster child and target Okanogan County for everything they can think of and Okanogan County is fed up,” he said.

“What the hell is the NPS doing taking comments on grizzly recovery? These agencies are in bed with or have imbedded greenies and are de facto fundraising for the greenies,” DeTro said, explaining federal efforts draw attention to the issue and helps environmentalists raise money.

The federal effort is an end run to try to accomplish what couldn’t be accomplished through the state in the past, he said.

A March 5 open house in Wenatchee was the same format with no oral presentations or comments. A couple dozen people attended.

This is the scoping phase from which alternative plans will be developed with a final decision on whether to actively pursue restoration made jointly by NPS and USFWS in three years, said Ann Froschauer, USFWS spokeswoman.

While grizzlies are more plentiful in other parts of Canada and the U.S., a small population lives on the Canadian side of the North Cascades and ventures into Washington state, although there have been no confirmed sightings in Washington since 1996, said Chris Servheen, USFWS grizzly bear recovery coordinator from Missoula, Mont.

“What we would like to do is improve their status, focusing on remote areas of the Pasayten Wilderness and North Cascades National Park,” he said.

The agencies want to keep them in remote areas and bears who endanger people or livestock would be relocated and if they re-offend a second time, destroyed, Servheen said. Problem bears from other areas “absolutely” would not be brought into the North Cascades, he said.

The North Cascades ecosystem is about 10,000 square miles and could safely handle 200 bears, he said. The Yellowstone ecosystem is about the same size and has 1,000 grizzlies that largely stay away from people, he said.

But Doug England, a Chelan County commissioner, said it will be difficult for the same area to be used by grizzlies and hikers.

“We are part of their food chain,” England said. “Hikers and sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the grizzly world.”

Chelan County commissioners sent a letter of opposition to the agencies, he said. It was interesting, he said, to see state Fish and Wildlife personnel at the meeting when state law prevents the state from spending money on grizzly bear recovery.

Any lawsuit likely would boil down to whether the state overrides the federal government in recovery jurisdiction, he said.

Evidence grizzlies lived in Washington is all anecdotal, not historical data, he said.

“This is serious in Stehekin. These are areas we hike with our grandchildren,” he said, adding the concerns of people whose lives and livelihoods will be impacted should carry more weight than those who don’t.

Open houses were set for Cle Elum March 9, Seattle March 10 and Bellingham March 11. Comments will be received through March 26 at: http://parkplanning.nps.gov/NCEG.



"Chelan County commissioners sent a letter of opposition to the agencies, he said. It was interesting, he said, to see state Fish and Wildlife personnel at the meeting when state law prevents the state from spending money on grizzly bear recovery."

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only.  s:  http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

Offline Tbar

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2017, 12:14:51 PM »
To those reading this- please take the time to submit a comment.  Dreamunelk stated it very well.  A simple support of the no action alternative is sufficient  (or whatever you support). It's will only take a minute and can be as simple as a sentence. When they tally up comments the categorize them with similar comments so your voice counts!

Offline fish vacuum

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Re: Reintroducing Grizzlies
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2017, 06:39:32 PM »



While grizzlies are more plentiful in other parts of Canada and the U.S., a small population lives on the Canadian side of the North Cascades and ventures into Washington state, although there have been no confirmed sightings in Washington since 1996, said Chris Servheen, USFWS grizzly bear recovery coordinator from Missoula, Mont.
That is false. One was photographed near Cascade Pass in October 2010.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/rare-grizzly-bear-photographed-in-north-cascades/

Quote
Problem bears from other areas “absolutely” would not be brought into the North Cascades, he said.
Oh, no "problem bears." That's lovely. Only the sweet, snuggly ones will be introduced.

 


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