Idaho F&G Proposal-Outlaw Trail Cameras

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I guess you could take the point of view that the major justification for hunting is that it is a tool game managers use to find the balance between game animals and the environment in which they live.  Most of what we are allowed to do (at least on paper) is predicated on that basis.  Therefore, you could take the stance that why should it matter what method we use to reach the quota that game managers want to see harvested in a certain area.  We hunters set the artificial parameters of what is the fairest way of helping game managers reach their goals. Obviously there is a very wide area of disagreement amongst hunters on those parameters.  As stated earlier, I'm not sure where that line is nor how to enforce once it's drawn.  I can only hunt according to my own rules (of course within the legally set rules) and let others let their own conscience be their guide. Personally I would never use the game cameras in question and would, therefore, not have any problem if they were banned.

 I think you make some very sound points.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

This really boils down to ethics,fair chase,  Sportsmanship,
Everybody has a different opinions on what these should be.
In the end it will be fish and game in all states to draw a line in the sand of what these will be .Protect wildlife from over harvest,keep hunting a fair chase sport .And yes they will make this decision with the public eye of hunters and non Hunter alike.Idaho and montana both allow 22 centerfire for deer and they wanna take away cell trail cams or trail cams durring open season tells me there is something wrong with cell trail cams and will be abused .Everybody on here is all about ethics,too many deer running off,Sportsmanship,when you bring up 22 centerfire for deer,but trail cams that tell you where deer at anytime ripe for the picking ,a lot of people are for it ,saying it's not gonna effect harvest number ,population,blah,blah,ect.Its crazy how people are so ethic do gooder when it's something they want ,There is something wrong with hunters in washington ,I'm not sure what to call it , but it's not right .

"It's crazy how people are so ethic do gooder when it's something they want"..."I'm not sure what to call it , but it's not right . "

It's called hypocrisy.. what you are stating is exactly what I'm talking about/arguing against... it's the shifting line of ethics based off personal preference.

[bearpaw]

It's certainly not the end of the world if cams are outlawed, the reason I stand against it is for the reasons I have stated. In the end there will be hunters wondering why other hunters took away their trail cams just like I am still wondering why other hunters voted against me being able to hunt hounds, bait, trap, and hunt coyotes with dogs in WA. It saddens me every time I see hunters lose the ability to do something they enjoy because i've been that guy too many times. Yes, Montana outlawed trail cams, it really don't affect me or my Montana business but I know guys who wished they could still use their trail cams in Montana!

Yes keep going on about bear baiting and hound hunting I wish we could also.Thank the people on the coast,and the way people view it in the public eye of non hunters.I know eastern Washington didn't want to ban it.

There were hunters right here in Colville where I live that voted against hounds and baiting, they told me they did, they were proud of their vote and that it passed, it appeared they enjoyed rubbing it in, I will never forget that! That remains a constant reminder to me of how hunters will turn on each other based on their own personal views! Unfortunately the division runs deep among hunters as can be seen in this topic! A good portion of hunters want to take trail cams away from the other hunters who use them "because of the way they view the use of cams" in spite of how actual users have stated they actually use cams! Oh well, that is the world we live in, if you enjoy something do it to the fullest while you can, there is someone out there who wants to stop what you enjoy doing!

[Rainier10]

I am normally a pretty black and white guy.  I am working on it but it's a thing.

Anyways, ethics aren't black and white at all and I think ethics are one of the most fluid areas of hunting.  I know what was okay when I started hunting isn't okay in my mind now and some of the things that I was dead set against when I started are acceptable now.  I think it has a lot to do with personal experience and a ton of other variables.

[Wacenturion]

here's part of the questionnaire you need to answer when submitting a trophy to B&C, underlined an interesting part. im not the only one holding these opinions, you guys find this group to be against you has a hunter?


For the purpose of entry into the Boone and Crockett Club’s® records, North American big game harvested by the use of the following methods or under the following conditions are ineligible:

 I. Spotting or herding game from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the purpose of pursuit and shooting;
 II. Herding or chasing with the aid of any motorized equipment;
 III. Use of electronic communication devices to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities, thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or cameras/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;
 IV. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape‑proof fenced enclosures;
 V. Transplanted for the purpose of commercial shooting;
 VI. By the use of traps or pharmaceuticals;
 VII. While swimming, helpless in deep snow, or helpless in any other natural or artificial medium;
 VIII. On another hunter’s license;
 IX. Not in full compliance with the game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands;

It only guides someone to an animal if the animal is there.  You're assuming it does, which it does not in the vast majority of instances as mentioned over and over in this thread.  Just because B&B say a certain thing, as mentioned above, it's for entry into their book.  I could argue 800-1000 yrd rifles are not fair chase as well and perhaps they should list those. 

As I have said previously, a 800-1000 yard rifle and mega optics (click click) takes far more game that would not have been taken under regular rifle capability, than some cellular camera for crying out loud.  In my mind and just my opinion mind you, those rifles perhaps foster the belief in some that flinging lead at distances beyond normal is realistic, whether or not they spend the time to make sure they can.  Wonder if that has impacts?  Kind of an image thing as well.  Wonder why B&B doesn't consider that, if they think some of those other things are a no no. 

How do you hunt...rangefinders....rifles that shoot that far?  Just curious.

[hunter399]

It's certainly not the end of the world if cams are outlawed, the reason I stand against it is for the reasons I have stated. In the end there will be hunters wondering why other hunters took away their trail cams just like I am still wondering why other hunters voted against me being able to hunt hounds, bait, trap, and hunt coyotes with dogs in WA. It saddens me every time I see hunters lose the ability to do something they enjoy because i've been that guy too many times. Yes, Montana outlawed trail cams, it really don't affect me or my Montana business but I know guys who wished they could still use their trail cams in Montana!

Yes keep going on about bear baiting and hound hunting I wish we could also.Thank the people on the coast,and the way people view it in the public eye of non hunters.I know eastern Washington didn't want to ban it.

There were hunters right here in Colville where I live that voted against hounds and baiting, they told me they did, they were proud of their vote and that it passed, it appeared they enjoyed rubbing it in, I will never forget that! That remains a constant reminder to me of how hunters will turn on each other based on their own personal views! Unfortunately the division runs deep among hunters as can be seen in this topic! A good portion of hunters want to take trail cams away from the other hunters who use them "because of the way they view the use of cams" in spite of how actual users have stated they actually use cams! Oh well, that is the world we live in, if you enjoy something do it to the fullest while you can, there is someone out there who wants to stop what you enjoy doing!

Just some fun facts about bear baiting and hound hunting.

Stevens
Yes/No   Votes
No   9461
Yes   6985

Pend Oreille
Yes/No   Votes
No   2485
Yes   2428

Spokane
Yes/No   Votes
Yes   99834
No   56757

Ferry
Yes/No   Votes
No   1722
Yes   1112

It was spokane county that hurt us most in that election for eastern Washington.
What can be abused-will be abused , And the rest will suffer.
"because of the way they view the use of cams"
Cause of the few that will abuse it ,not the way we view it.
Trail cams are great,but cell trail cams have taken it to a whole new level of what fair chase really means.

[Wacenturion]

It's certainly not the end of the world if cams are outlawed, the reason I stand against it is for the reasons I have stated. In the end there will be hunters wondering why other hunters took away their trail cams just like I am still wondering why other hunters voted against me being able to hunt hounds, bait, trap, and hunt coyotes with dogs in WA. It saddens me every time I see hunters lose the ability to do something they enjoy because i've been that guy too many times. Yes, Montana outlawed trail cams, it really don't affect me or my Montana business but I know guys who wished they could still use their trail cams in Montana!

Yes keep going on about bear baiting and hound hunting I wish we could also.Thank the people on the coast,and the way people view it in the public eye of non hunters.I know eastern Washington didn't want to ban it.

There were hunters right here in Colville where I live that voted against hounds and baiting, they told me they did, they were proud of their vote and that it passed, it appeared they enjoyed rubbing it in, I will never forget that! That remains a constant reminder to me of how hunters will turn on each other based on their own personal views! Unfortunately the division runs deep among hunters as can be seen in this topic! A good portion of hunters want to take trail cams away from the other hunters who use them "because of the way they view the use of cams" in spite of how actual users have stated they actually use cams! Oh well, that is the world we live in, if you enjoy something do it to the fullest while you can, there is someone out there who wants to stop what you enjoy doing!

BP....could not have said it better myself.  Saw it over and over again during my 30 year career at WDFW.

[lord grizzly]

here's part of the questionnaire you need to answer when submitting a trophy to B&C, underlined an interesting part. im not the only one holding these opinions, you guys find this group to be against you has a hunter?


For the purpose of entry into the Boone and Crockett Club’s® records, North American big game harvested by the use of the following methods or under the following conditions are ineligible:

 I. Spotting or herding game from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the purpose of pursuit and shooting;
 II. Herding or chasing with the aid of any motorized equipment;
 III. Use of electronic communication devices to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities, thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or cameras/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;
 IV. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape‑proof fenced enclosures;
 V. Transplanted for the purpose of commercial shooting;
 VI. By the use of traps or pharmaceuticals;
 VII. While swimming, helpless in deep snow, or helpless in any other natural or artificial medium;
 VIII. On another hunter’s license;
 IX. Not in full compliance with the game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands;

It only guides someone to an animal if the animal is there.  You're assuming it does, which it does not in the vast majority of instances as mentioned over and over in this thread.  Just because B&B say a certain thing, as mentioned above, it's for entry into their book.  I could argue 800-1000 yrd rifles are not fair chase as well and perhaps they should list those. 

As I have said previously, a 800-1000 yard rifle and mega optics (click click) takes far more game that would not have been taken under regular rifle capability, than some cellular camera for crying out loud.  In my mind and just my opinion mind you, those rifles perhaps foster the belief in some that flinging lead at distances beyond normal is realistic, whether or not they spend the time to make sure they can.  Wonder if that has impacts?  Kind of an image thing as well.  Wonder why B&B doesn't consider that, if they think some of those other things are a no no. 

How do you hunt...rangefinders....rifles that shoot that far?  Just curious.

I hunt various different ways and once again the attempt to put words in my mouth or call me out as hypocritical isn't very productive or warranted by any of my comments. I've not once in this thread gone off the topic or claimed some moral high ground about what equipment I do or don't use. ive even mentioned i have trail cams in the woods right now. I have maintained through out my comments that my contention is the advancement in the technology of these cameras were talking about and there potential ramifications to fair chase hunting. I've cited B&C's own parameters because they are widely recognized as the leaders (in fact they came up with the term "fair chase" in hunting) in defining fair chase.

[Wacenturion]

It's certainly not the end of the world if cams are outlawed, the reason I stand against it is for the reasons I have stated. In the end there will be hunters wondering why other hunters took away their trail cams just like I am still wondering why other hunters voted against me being able to hunt hounds, bait, trap, and hunt coyotes with dogs in WA. It saddens me every time I see hunters lose the ability to do something they enjoy because i've been that guy too many times. Yes, Montana outlawed trail cams, it really don't affect me or my Montana business but I know guys who wished they could still use their trail cams in Montana!

Yes keep going on about bear baiting and hound hunting I wish we could also.Thank the people on the coast,and the way people view it in the public eye of non hunters.I know eastern Washington didn't want to ban it.

There were hunters right here in Colville where I live that voted against hounds and baiting, they told me they did, they were proud of their vote and that it passed, it appeared they enjoyed rubbing it in, I will never forget that! That remains a constant reminder to me of how hunters will turn on each other based on their own personal views! Unfortunately the division runs deep among hunters as can be seen in this topic! A good portion of hunters want to take trail cams away from the other hunters who use them "because of the way they view the use of cams" in spite of how actual users have stated they actually use cams! Oh well, that is the world we live in, if you enjoy something do it to the fullest while you can, there is someone out there who wants to stop what you enjoy doing!

Just some fun facts about bear baiting and hound hunting.

Stevens
Yes/No   Votes
No   9461
Yes   6985

Pend Oreille
Yes/No   Votes
No   2485
Yes   2428

Spokane
Yes/No   Votes
Yes   99834
No   56757

Ferry
Yes/No   Votes
No   1722
Yes   1112

It was spokane county that hurt us most in that election for eastern Washington.
What can be abused-will be abused , And the rest will suffer.
"because of the way they view the use of cams"
Cause of the few that will abuse it ,not the way we view it.
Trail cams are great,but cell trail cams have taken it to a whole new level of what fair chase really means.

Do you personally use cell cams?  If so, what level are you referring to?  So lets say a hunter is sitting at home, or eating breakfast in town, whatever.  A picture taken on a regular cam of say a deer is stored on a card until the hunter pulls the card and actually views it.  A cell cam transmits the picture to a cell phone via email or app and also stores it on a card.  By the time the individual get to the cell cam he has two pictures, one on his phone and one on his card.  Advantage...one extra picture.

[Wacenturion]

here's part of the questionnaire you need to answer when submitting a trophy to B&C, underlined an interesting part. im not the only one holding these opinions, you guys find this group to be against you has a hunter?


For the purpose of entry into the Boone and Crockett Club’s® records, North American big game harvested by the use of the following methods or under the following conditions are ineligible:

 I. Spotting or herding game from the air, followed by landing in its vicinity for the purpose of pursuit and shooting;
 II. Herding or chasing with the aid of any motorized equipment;
 III. Use of electronic communication devices to guide hunters to game, artificial lighting, electronic light intensifying devices (night vision optics), sights with built-in electronic range-finding capabilities, thermal imaging equipment, electronic game calls or cameras/timers/motion tracking devices that transmit images and other information to the hunter;
 IV. Confined by artificial barriers, including escape‑proof fenced enclosures;
 V. Transplanted for the purpose of commercial shooting;
 VI. By the use of traps or pharmaceuticals;
 VII. While swimming, helpless in deep snow, or helpless in any other natural or artificial medium;
 VIII. On another hunter’s license;
 IX. Not in full compliance with the game laws or regulations of the federal government or of any state, province, territory, or tribal council on reservations or tribal lands;

It only guides someone to an animal if the animal is there.  You're assuming it does, which it does not in the vast majority of instances as mentioned over and over in this thread.  Just because B&B say a certain thing, as mentioned above, it's for entry into their book.  I could argue 800-1000 yrd rifles are not fair chase as well and perhaps they should list those. 

As I have said previously, a 800-1000 yard rifle and mega optics (click click) takes far more game that would not have been taken under regular rifle capability, than some cellular camera for crying out loud.  In my mind and just my opinion mind you, those rifles perhaps foster the belief in some that flinging lead at distances beyond normal is realistic, whether or not they spend the time to make sure they can.  Wonder if that has impacts?  Kind of an image thing as well.  Wonder why B&B doesn't consider that, if they think some of those other things are a no no. 

How do you hunt...rangefinders....rifles that shoot that far?  Just curious.

I hunt various different ways and once again the attempt to put words in my mouth or call me out as hypocritical isn't very productive or warranted by any of my comments. I've not once in this thread gone off the topic or claimed some moral high ground about what equipment I do or don't use. ive even mentioned i have trail cams in the woods right now. I have maintained through out my comments that my contention is the advancement in the technology of these cameras were talking about and there potential ramifications to fair chase hunting. I've cited B&C's own parameters because they are widely recognized as the leaders (in fact they came up with the term "fair chase" in hunting) in defining fair chase.

So I take that to be a yes.

[lord grizzly]

its clear you'll never get it. must be a blissful existence.

[lord grizzly]

the irony is your replying on such an advanced machine that didn't exist with the amount of power they have now just a few short years ago. all the evidence you need of what's to come is literally under your fingers as you reply but you still can t see it. amazing..

[Wacenturion]

its clear you'll never get it. must be a blissful existence.

No I do get it.  I feel that you, by your statements have a definitive opinion of what technology I use and when I should or should not be allowed to use it, and although I don't, I could just as easily have a definitive opinion about your technology usage. 

[Wacenturion]

the irony is your replying on such an advanced machine that didn't exist with the amount of power they have now just a few short years ago. all the evidence you need of what's to come is literally under your fingers as you reply but you still can t see it. amazing..

What is ironic is how you do not consider 1000 yard weapons and optics worthy of the same argument that you are using for cellular cams.   

[Wacenturion]

For what it's worth, this is the real enjoyment I get from my cellular cams. First fawn on the property that I've seen.  Mama looks sleek and healthy from all the feed available the last two months.  I 've seen what the local deer look like in comparison.

Picture taken about an hour ago.  Didn't see it until now, as I was too busy playing here .