No Budget, No Hunter Ed AGAIN

[Bob33]

In summary I can't stop thinking about the moment I took that shot. It changed me. I have a whole new respect for hunting. It truly is something amazing about our species. Despite being charged like a bolt of lightening I vividly remember the fractions of a second leading up to the trigger being pulled. After the shot and even the car ride back we felt like that we were indeed hunters.

Thanks again for the amazing class and all the help. It truly made a difference and made something unknown to us less intimidating.

Would you have seen a letter like this if the new hunter took an online class instead of a traditional hands on class? 
Would you have been able to make such an impact on this person?
Would you have been able to answer all those questions and developed a tutor/mentor type relationship?

and finally, without that guidance would they have even gone hunting?

When the online program first started, I was skeptical. After having seen a lot of students come through the program, I’ve concluded that it’s an effective way to train certain types of students.  It is self-study, and is paced so that students can’t rush through it just to take the exam.

We do spend time with the students instructing them with hands on firearms handling, and also have them go through simulated obstacle courses to confirm they demonstrate good muzzle control.

It works well with students that have the discipline to complete a program via self-motivation. We do encourage younger students to take a traditional classroom course.

I’ve seen far more students in traditional classes that are really too young or immature. It’s obvious in many cases they really don’t want to be there, but were pushed to do so by a parent. I’ve not seen that in an online evaluation.

It is easier to “bond” with students in a lengthier traditional course, but that’s not really the purpose of the program.

Having both types of programs available is a good thing, as it reaches a broader spectrum of new hunters.

To quote Bearpaw: “Classes need to be more available and could be more available in a multitude of ways if WDFW really wanted to make HE more available.”

[boneaddict]

Classes need to be more available and could be more available in a multitude of ways if WDFW really wanted to make HE more available.

BAM!

[pianoman9701]

I currently teach with a group that won't do any online classes. I think not doing them is a mistake. Although I feel that younger hunters get more from the traditional classes, I also feel that older students, especially single moms and dads who want to accompany their children, will be more likely to sign up for something that more easily fits their busy schedule. I have confidence in the course unless a parent allows a child to be coached through it just to get them certified. That's the one drawback I see with room for mistakes going forward.

[Bob33]

I currently teach with a group that won't do any online classes. I think not doing them is a mistake. Although I feel that younger hunters get more from the traditional classes, I also feel that older students, especially single moms and dads who want to accompany their children, will be more likely to sign up for something that more easily fits their busy schedule. I have confidence in the course unless a parent allows a child to be coached through it just to get them certified. That's the one drawback I see with room for mistakes going forward.

That was a concern I had, and it can happen. However, after having observed 100s of students come through the program I've yet to see one that appeared to have been coached to pass. I've seen more students in our traditional classes that are being pushed by a parent.

Two different methods, each with pros and cons.

[pianoman9701]

 

[bigtex]

I understand HE instructors have pride in HE, I am in no way belittling the many HE instructors who volunteer their time. My hat is off to HE instructors for putting up with the whole WDFW system. I think there should be more incentives for you guys, including better permit opportunities which might also increase the number of HE instructors.

And how much more incentives should WDFW offer? Make them paid hourly employees? Heck, 15 years ago there weren't even HE instructor special permits, WDFW instituted it as an incentive, and now some want more incentives then that.

The fact is every state has a HE instructor shortage. I think what it really comes down to is people now have busier lives. When I was growing up you had little league sports and school sports, nowadays you have year round club sports which obviously takes up a lot of parents time. That's just one example. I don't think it's an incentive issue, its a time issue.

[Bob33]

More incentives. Fewer incentives.

More ways to offer classes. Only one way to offer classes.

And so it goes...

[Smoke]

just wanted to chime in on the on-line course and mom or dad doing the on-line stuff then coaching the kid thru it...  I'm an instructor myself doing mostly on-line courses.. we do a 4 hour classroom where we review the main topics to refresh the kids memories (some completed the online part more then a month ago).. they are then given a test they must pass before going to the field portion...  if mom or dad did the course for them, they won't pass....  seen it...  as for the poster pissed about the firearms for the kids... I agree, it's hard for a small kid to handle some of the rifles/shotguns made for adults... things are on the improve tho... our new firearms we received this year include 2 small frame rifles for kids...  we don't use and won't use your firearms for the class because all our firearms (with the exception of the one's used on the range) are disabled... no firing pins... yours are not...

[bearpaw]

I would like to see their budget dry up until Hunter Education is improved and we get more predator seasons and control. They have to make the first move or no budget! 

What improvements do you believe should be made to hunter education?

I get calls every year from people who can't get in HE class wanting to know if I know where they can get HE. Classes need to be more available and could be more available in a multitude of ways if WDFW really wanted to make HE more available. Even an uneducated person can clearly see that you reduce the number of hunters if you require hunter safety but do not provide classes for hunters to get HE. Every year old hunters die or quit hunting and new persons wanting to start hunting cannot get HE. That is a FACT!

 - Allow private instruction (currently many classes are offered for people to get concealed weapons permits)
 - WDFW needs to more aggressively recruit HE volunteers and make the system to be certified more available with hours to accommodate volunteers

Those are the first two easy ways that come to mind to make HE more available if WDFW wanted HE to be more available! 

and get rid of that online crap

What don't you like about the "online crap"?  The students we've had come through it are almost universally well prepared.

Well that's heartening to hear.  Do you just focus on the range portion or do you take the time to get a little more in depth about the kids' learning?  Or since you have so many kids lined up you just do the range stuff then do the paperwork?  Wouldn't it be possible for someone else (parent) to complete the online portion and just focus on getting the kid to pass the range evaluation?

Honest question, I haven't been all the way through the range portion of an online class but I did go through the online class itself on the computer and choose to take my kid to a traditional class after seeing it.  I didn't care for the computer class.

Actually this instructor doesn't have a "traditional class" as there's bird dogs involved and some other stuff I think WDFW had to grant special permission for.

Since I am new to the HE instructor ranks I hope that I can shed some light from what I have seen.  I believe that most of us in the 35+ range would much rather take a traditional class but in todays technology must under the age of 35 and under whats it right now so they created the online course.  I have gone through 4 classes right now and I think that the kids are well prepared.  I get some great questions during the field course. 

@bearpaw Dale I don't know if this is partially the eastside and maybe not so many instructors but here I know of at least 3 different groups doing hunters ed within and 30 mile area and I know our group is doing 3 classes a month on Saturday afternoons.  Right now there isn't a big push for HE classes.  They aren't really that many people in them right now.  Instructors have said that it picks up come August.

That's awesome that your group is making HE very available!

[seth30]

Here we go again with the no budget, no hunter ed. 
Federal Pittman-Robertson funds keep hunter ed going, but the state Oligarchy says because instructors are covered by the states insurance, we will have to cancel classes IF the legislators do not pass budget by 7/1.  I believe that this is the third time they have pulled this crap since I have been an instructor . Every time the budget is in question, we repeat this scenario. The track record indicates that they will likely pass a budget in time, but ya still have to have a plan as to how you will handle the issue should they not.  More time wasted. 
My pay stays the same regardless, so no monetary damage.  However, my time is valuable, don't ask my wife for a second opinion  , and I hate having my time wasted.  Returning class fees and explaining why, can be a real pain in the drain.
 

I thought the legalization of MJ would solve all our tax problems..  Oh wait

[KFhunter]

I want to thank all the HE instructors for their time and service to the hunting community, thanks for all you do   

[kselkhunter]

I want to thank all the HE instructors for their time and service to the hunting community, thanks for all you do 

[bearpaw]

just wanted to chime in on the on-line course and mom or dad doing the on-line stuff then coaching the kid thru it...  I'm an instructor myself doing mostly on-line courses.. we do a 4 hour classroom where we review the main topics to refresh the kids memories (some completed the online part more then a month ago).. they are then given a test they must pass before going to the field portion...  if mom or dad did the course for them, they won't pass....  seen it...  as for the poster pissed about the firearms for the kids... I agree, it's hard for a small kid to handle some of the rifles/shotguns made for adults... things are on the improve tho... our new firearms we received this year include 2 small frame rifles for kids...  we don't use and won't use your firearms for the class because all our firearms (with the exception of the one's used on the range) are disabled... no firing pins... yours are not...

That's great, hoping to see more availability for range days! If we want hunting to survive we must recruit more hunters! That means by providing HE opportunities.

[bearpaw]

I want to thank all the HE instructors for their time and service to the hunting community, thanks for all you do 

  x3

[ghosthunter]

I would like to see their budget dry up until Hunter Education is improved and we get more predator seasons and control. They have to make the first move or no budget! 

What improvements do you believe should be made to hunter education?

I get calls every year from people who can't get in HE class wanting to know if I know where they can get HE. Classes need to be more available and could be more available in a multitude of ways if WDFW really wanted to make HE more available. Even an uneducated person can clearly see that you reduce the number of hunters if you require hunter safety but do not provide classes for hunters to get HE. Every year old hunters die or quit hunting and new persons wanting to start hunting cannot get HE. That is a FACT!

 - Allow private instruction (currently many classes are offered for people to get concealed weapons permits)
 - WDFW needs to more aggressively recruit HE volunteers and make the system to be certified more available with hours to accommodate volunteers

Those are the first two easy ways that come to mind to make HE more available if WDFW wanted HE to be more available! 

One of the issues is people wait to long to find a class. I have a class going right now. They had three weeks to sign up for it and it is only half full. The reason too many folks wait till the last minute and than want to find a class. Hunter ed is taught by Hunters, who want to go hunting. Bear starts Aug. 1, Grouse Sept. 1, and than the big game seasons.
I will be finished with my 2nd class this year by mid July.
But folks who should be looking now for Hunter Ed options wont do it until the very last minute.

I have gotten 50 calls in October for folks who wanted to go Modern deer hunting, as I was going out the door to hunt myself.

There is room for improvement though. The state should charge 25.00 deposit for anyone who wants to sign up for a class. But they don't. Thus people sign up for several classes tying up seats and than never show up. Spots lost.
Yeah instructors could charge the deposit and some do. But I wont. I want the state to handle their own money. People buy tags on line no reason they cant do the same with Hunter ed.
If I take the money , I got to track it all year. I don't want to do it.

Look at how many hunters put in for their permits at the last minute. Same folks drag their feet on Hunter Ed.