A Proposal for Washington's Mule Deer

[GoldenRing270]

Thanks for posting that up sitka_blacktail and good points made for sure. I agree with you about the natural ups and downs of predator prey dynamics. What is concerning though is the gradual steady population decline. We still have highs and lows in the population but the highs never quite get as high and the lows are dipping down lower and lower.

It would be impossible but very interesting to know exactly how many mule deer were killed by predators during these same years. 30,000 mule deer reported harvests between 2012 and 2016 in the 200 series gmu's. There were probably quite a bit more that never got reported. I have a hard time believing wolves and cougars could kill anywhere remotely close to that number but maybe I'd be surprised. Either way it sure seems like we hunters have taken more than our fair share out of the population over these last several years and without a doubt it has contributed to the situation we are in now.

 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

That's good stuff Stika_Blacktail,

If I'm reading this right, the highest doe (or is it antlerless) harvest was in 2014 at 1,366 animals.  You mentioned that this is for the 200 series GMUs, of which there are 28 GMUs?  If this is correct, that means that the average antlerless harvest per unit in 2014 was 48 antlerless per unit.

That's good data.  Now the analysis and potential results after 2, 3, 5 years?  I'd be interested to see this, making realistic assumptions where data doesn't exist.  For example, how many of the 48 antlerless deer per unit were doe?  What is the harvest rate of doe relative to the total population?  What are the rates of other causes of death that might impact the offspring of the "saved" doe? 

As I said, I realize not harvesting doe will likely result in higher future populations, but the data and the analysis will show the impact of it.  In other words, how much will the population grow in 2, 3, 5 years?  Do this for every solution and you find the solution, or a set of solutions which will have the greatest impact. 

There is a LOT to this issue, lots of potential solutions, lots of data and assumptions that will have impact on the analysis.

Yes you read it right. I got the info on the WDF&W website in the game harvest reports. I chose the totals by District and GMU because it's the easiest way to get the totals. They are totaled for each district already.

And you are correct to ask how many antlerless deer were does as some were probably towhead bucks.  And you are also correct to point out that statistically not all of those animals would have survived anyway. Statistically, some would have died from predators, some from auto accidents, and some might not have survived winter.  There ARE a lot of issues that the average Joe doesn't realize or think about that the bios have to consider. I wouldn't want their job as you just can't please everyone. But I am glad they are doing it. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[Bows4huntn]

Really Goldenring?  You have a hard time believing predators could have killed 30,000 animals over a 5 year period? A common number I hear for Cougar is they take an average of 1 deer every week. That's 52 a year I believe,so for 5 years just one cougar would take 250 animals. Multiply that by the number of Cougars in these units then add on the kills from Wolves,Bears, and Coyotes and 30,000 seems like it might be a little on the low side.

[Gringo31]

Last number I heard a few years ago was that the cougar population in our state was estimated at 4000.

[baldopepper]

One thing I discovered this weekend.  I'm not sure the whitetail, any buck hunt in the NE corner is a good thing for the mule deer up there.  I mentioned in another thread that we'd already found one dead mule deer buck, shot and left on the opening weekend and over this last weekend there was a lot of shooting around the house and I know that there have been a ton of small mulie bucks hanging around the road. I'm a little suspicious about all that shooting.  Went thru the checking station at Miles Creston Rd and Hwy 2 yesterday and mentioned to the warden that I thought it was a problem and he agreed.  Said they already knew of 5 mule shot in the area and had actually had hunters try to bring two more thru the checking station.  If they know of that many, I can't help but wonder how many more were shot and left.  Ton of road hunters out on Hwy 25 this weekend.  I'm seriously starting to think you should have to pass a test showing you really do know the difference between a mule deer and a white tail. (could be set up online easily). I've stopped two different groups on the road near my house that were glassing mulies that asked me when I stopped what kind of deer they were.  I just hope they're not shooting first and identifying after.

[GoldenRing270]

Predators kill a lot of mule deer and I would love to see hound hunting reinstated but I also feel that there is about as much chance of that happening in the next 10 years as there is of a hunt-wa member winning the lotto and distributing the money equally among all the members so that we can quit our jobs and spend the rest of our lives hunting and fishing (come on fingers crossed ). I regret having mentioned predators in my last reply... I got distracted from the topic at hand...   

I think we need focus our attention first on taking small steps and working toward realistic goals that could be achieved within the next couple of years. Start by restricting antlerless harvest. From there I'm not sure. The odd/even wild Id every other year mule deer opportunity sounds interesting and this type of idea has a much higher probability of being implemented. I am just playing the odds and willing to make sacrifices that would help the deer.

[Humptulips]

Last number I heard a few years ago was that the cougar population in our state was estimated guessed at 4000.

I have not seen much that indicates the numbers on cougar are very precise. I believe they are much higher.
Only about 40% of Cougar Management Areas reach the target harvest but most of those seem to be in Eastern WA so I think an increase in the target quotas might benefit Mule Deer.
We should push for the F&W Commission to revisit increasing those quotas.
Maybe you recall they did last year and Governor Insley reversed the decision.

[JimmyHoffa]

Really Goldenring?  You have a hard time believing predators could have killed 30,000 animals over a 5 year period? A common number I hear for Cougar is they take an average of 1 deer every week. That's 52 a year I believe,so for 5 years just one cougar would take 250 animals. Multiply that by the number of Cougars in these units then add on the kills from Wolves,Bears, and Coyotes and 30,000 seems like it might be a little on the low side.

I've heard that in some places cougars will take a deer a day.  One of the biggest fawn killers on the coast has actually turned out to be bobcats.  Mostly because you can fit a bunch more in a cougar sized territory.

[DBLDWN]

I really liked reading Sitka Blacktails post, great info and pretty much spot on. Thank you. My suggestion would be to get rid of multi season tags, go back to weapon specific, I believe this would spread the user groups out again and get less people on the immediate winter range in the late archery season. Get rid of doe tags for any general season, make doe harvest youth, senior and disabled draw for units that need a reduction. Don't like the idea of the east side draw only for mule deer, I think they should make it a choice of east side or west side just like elk, or make it a county specific tag. As far as predators, bring back the hounds because boot hunting for cats isn't a real effective way to manage them, same for bears. As for wolves, dumbest thing WDFW could have ever done is to re introduce them and am glad the colville Indians are shooting them. As for the yakima indians the free for all needs to stop, I don't care if they shoot a deer and an elk in December to feed their families, but to shoot multiple animals off the winter range just because they can needs to stop. The deer herds at this time can't sustain it. As much as I love to hunt this state and hate to say it, but maybe the best thing for the herd is to shut it down for a couple years like someone had mentioned earlier and let the mule deer get their feet back on the ground especially in the okanogan valley. Just my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth

[mfswallace]

How many total deer, elk and moose do natives harvest per year?

[bobcat]

DBLDWN- I agree with most of your post, but this never happened. Not sure why people keep saying that. 

As for wolves, dumbest thing WDFW could have ever done is to re introduce them

[ironhead14]

Let's just ban hunting altogether and let the cougars, bobcats,bears, and wolves have all the game animals.  Wait, that is what the WDFW is doing already!

[Mr Mykiss]

If ya'll didn't use up your energy a few months ago:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/

[huntnphool]

 

[Rainier10]

If ya'll didn't use up your energy a few months ago:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/

Yes, so you can still send in responses but the next big meeting will be a commission meeting where the draft rules and regulations will be presented.  There is time for public comment at that meeting.  After that meeting the rules and regs get tweaked just a little based on public comments and then there is one final meeting in April when the final draft gets presented to the commission, they approve it and miraculously 7 days later the regs are available on line and the threads start about "which store has the hard copies out?".

If there is something that you are really passionate about changing, do your research, come to the meeting with facts and a few like minded individuals.  Present your case and you never know what can happen.