Salmon fishing/Not likley

[WSU]

There is a lot of factors at play.  That's what makes managing these fish for MSY (Maximum Sustainable Yield, as per the Alaska Constitution) a very difficult task.  The really odd thing is that the wild fish in most rivers are coming back on average a full 1 or 2 years earlier than previously assumed.   Is it that the fishing fleet is hammering the later fish before they get in the river?  Warmer ocean speeding maturity?  Lack of feed?  The what if's are limitless.

It would be easy for me, as a commercial guy, to want to have the "ocean conditions" be the only reason (btw, "ocean conditions" is the catch-all for scientists to use when they just don't know).  But I tend to agree with you - human interaction with the runs are causing this in some respect, but I don't know what it is.  The wild runs being early and small as well suggests to me it is a bigger problem than hatchery management.

One theory I’ve read is that we are selectively harvesting for early returning fish. The longer they spend feeding in the ocean, the more likely they are to be caught during the mixed stock fisheries and removed from the gene pool.  A life history that heads back to spawn with the least exposure to harvest has the best chance to pass on its genes.  It makes sense to me but I am not aware of any definitive study (and am not sure one would be possible?).

[WSU]

I don’t fault skillet or others for their profession. I appreciate those that can have an honest conversation and not simply regurgitate the party line.

But, as skillet points out, fisheries politics has a lot more to do with money than honest science. Many of the problems are known and fixes exist. They aren’t fixed because there is too much money to be made. Trawlers harvest fish sticks and kill hundreds of thousands of kings (and halibut). Mixed stock troll fisheries are known to kill tons of bc and southern us fish. Stopping that would require a huge shift in Alaska’s approach and would necessarily cost ak and it’s fishers lots of money. And so it continues and we point fingers at tribes, habitat, unknown foreign harvesters and all the rest.

Another thing that’s not talked about is how msy won’t allow us to increase spawning. If folks like skillet were forced to lay off our fish, we’d set seasons here in wa that would ensure we killed them once they got back. Any fish beyond he escapement goal, which is often artificially low to allow harvest, must show up in the planning model as a dead fish.  If we improve habitat, the escapement goal stays the same and we kill all extra fish. The spawning population can’t and won’t grow because we make damn sure we kill every last possible harvestable fish. And usually more.

[follow maggie]

This is why I don't care about people poaching, anymore.

[ribka]

Yep, spawning and habitat are key factors.

And again one user group, who have demonstrated they care nothing about the natural resource  in out state,  places nets across rivers ( critical spawning habitat)  where salmon and steelhead are attempting to reproduce.

I don’t fault skillet or others for their profession. I appreciate those that can have an honest conversation and not simply regurgitate the party line.

But, as skillet points out, fisheries politics has a lot more to do with money than honest science. Many of the problems are known and fixes exist. They aren’t fixed because there is too much money to be made. Trawlers harvest fish sticks and kill hundreds of thousands of kings (and halibut). Mixed stock troll fisheries are known to kill tons of bc and southern us fish. Stopping that would require a huge shift in Alaska’s approach and would necessarily cost ak and it’s fishers lots of money. And so it continues and we point fingers at tribes, habitat, unknown foreign harvesters and all the rest.

Another thing that’s not talked about is how msy won’t allow us to increase spawning. If folks like skillet were forced to lay off our fish, we’d set seasons here in wa that would ensure we killed them once they got back. Any fish beyond he escapement goal, which is often artificially low to allow harvest, must show up in the planning model as a dead fish.  If we improve habitat, the escapement goal stays the same and we kill all extra fish. The spawning population can’t and won’t grow because we make damn sure we kill every last possible harvestable fish. And usually more.

[WSU]

Ribka - netting the river is actually the best practice for controlling the amount of harvest.  That’s not to say that the tribes always do so responsibly, but in theory it would be the best approach. Ak has lots of pretty closely managed terminal harvest designed to allow specific levels of escapement.

Skillet - I’d be really interest in your pit tag data if you are willing to share. 

[ribka]

Ribka - netting the river is actually the best practice for controlling the amount of harvest.  That’s not to say that the tribes always do so responsibly, but in theory it would be the best approach. Ak has lots of pretty closely managed terminal harvest designed to allow specific levels of escapement.

Skillet - I’d be really interest in your pit tag data if you are willing to share.

Ak does a much better job than WA based on my research and personal observations.

I have seen nets left in the WA rivers over the prescribed times and a lot abandoned nets in rivers where salmon an steelhead spawn. Have seen hundreds of rotting fish in abandoned nets. Has WDFW ever ticketed and tribal members for doing his? In theory maybe yes. In reality no

Does WDFW closely monitor tribal catches or just rely on reporting which is notoriously innacurate?

Similar to targeting vulnerable elk and deer for slaughter in their wintering grounds

[JimmyHoffa]

Ribka - netting the river is actually the best practice for controlling the amount of harvest.  That’s not to say that the tribes always do so responsibly, but in theory it would be the best approach. Ak has lots of pretty closely managed terminal harvest designed to allow specific levels of escapement.

Skillet - I’d be really interest in your pit tag data if you are willing to share.

It could and should be a good way to have a controlled take.  But that assumes the numbers are being provided and tracked effectively.  The mess on the Quileute river this year is a great example.  Nets took so many kings this year that all the rivers in the system had to be shutdown for everything for a few weeks.  The kings based off the 2017 spawn aren't likely to give much of a season.

[WSU]

I agree that our current “comanagement” is a disaster here in Washington.

[hunthard]

I wasn't aware we had a "co-management" Times have changed, the tribes are in control now, this might not be bad news though, look at the Quinault tribe and how well they manage there steelhead.

[MADMAX]

I want my money back from my Puget Sound salmon enhancement fees

[hunthard]

Or how about the Cowlitz river endorsement, I've only been fishing the Cowlitz for 15 years or so and it's nothing like it was back then, kind of makes me wonder what it was like 20 years ago.