Salmon fishing/Not likley

[Tinmaniac]

Lots of misunderstanding of fish, seasons, and biology going on here.  Too much to parse, but suffice to say, the number one thing we could do to curtail harvest is cut harvest in Alaska and Canada.  Far more harvest occurs north of our border than once the fish finally return.

As much as it goes against the mantra folks have been speaking for decades, netting fish in the river is the most effective way to control harvest.  When we catch 80% of the harvested fish in the open ocean, we have no idea if they are from a healthy run or one listed under the ESA.  They fish are all mixed and there is no way to control.  If you wait until they return, not only can you control which runs you harvest, but the fish are also as large as they are going to get because we aren't harvesting them as juveniles.

Besides mesh size how is a gill net selective?

[WSU]

Location and time.

[Tinmaniac]

Location and time.

I agree,when I know the location of the nets and the time they are in the river I stay away.When the nets are in fishing is terrible.My point is the gill nets kill tens of thousands of ESA listed fish.

[WSU]

Alaska and Canada kill hundreds of thousands of fish and far more than our terminal net fisheries.  If you are interested, I can post a link that has all the numbers broken down.

[Skillet]

I'd sure be curious to see those numbers.  Thanks-

[j_h_nimrod]

Alaska and Canada kill hundreds of thousands of fish and far more than our terminal net fisheries.  If you are interested, I can post a link that has all the numbers broken down.

[WSU]

Here’s the link: http://www.psc.org/publications/technical-reports/technical-committee-reports/chinook/

The reports titled “Annual Report of Catch and Escapement for 20xx” show catches by all the various fisheries, details on stock escapements, etc. for chinook

The reports titled “20xx Exploitation Rate Analysis and Model Calibration” show by fishery where each stock is caught (or experiences mortality due to fisheries).

There is a ton of information in these reports, but they are the most comprehensive single source I know of for what you are looking for.

This is from the pacific salmon commission.

[Skillet]

Roger, thank you for the link. 

[JimmyHoffa]

I'd sure be curious to see those numbers.  Thanks-

I've seen a few of the numbers before.  I think the worst was the Hoko river out by Sekiu, with 95% intercept before making it to the strait.  The Elwha was like 88% or 85%, which is kind of why hardly anyone thinks the dam removal project will restore historic fish runs.

[j_h_nimrod]

Alaska and Canada kill hundreds of thousands of fish and far more than our terminal net fisheries.  If you are interested, I can post a link that has all the numbers broken down.

I would be interested to see this as well.

Lots of misunderstanding of fish, seasons, and biology going on here.  Too much to parse, but suffice to say, the number one thing we could do to curtail harvest is cut harvest in Alaska and Canada.  Far more harvest occurs north of our border than once the fish finally return.  Far more fish are produced wildly and in hatcheries North of the Straits then WA, in season management and management in general are far superior in CAN and AK ten in WA as well. Fishing by AK, CAN, and the other salmon producing states is managed by international treaties and annual season setting that is very science intensive and thorough.

As much as it goes against the mantra folks have been speaking for decades, netting fish in the river is the most effective way to control harvest. Yes and no, in an ocean fishery the fish do not randomly mix. Certain runs hit certain corridors and many fisheries are hitting certain terminal areas for certain stocks.  It is not a random barrel of fish taking whatever is there. Certain areas have been restricted because of the interception rate of non-target stocks. When we catch 80% of the harvested fish in the open ocean, we have no idea if they are from a healthy run or one listed under the ESA.  They fish are all mixed and there is no way to control.  If you wait until they return, not only can you control which runs you harvest, but the fish are also as large as they are going to get because we aren't harvesting them as juveniles. I’m not sure what you mean about harvesting juveniles, there is little to no market for jacks and the majority of actual juveniles are in the high seas.  As far as river fisheries go, you are now fishing on a fist that has expended a significant portion of its fat and energy reserves returning to its natal stream while producing mature gametes.  You are essentially fishing on the fish that are the most fit to reproduce in that watershed when they have already started to lose flesh quality. This is the reason winter kings are so highly prized, highest fat content and immature gametes. Rivers are certainly easier to fish, but, among other reasons, this is a reason the majority of commercial fisheries are in the open ocean.

[Skillet]

Yep, it is what king salmon do - get out of the rivers, migrate north to the rich Gulf of Alaska feeding grounds and grow for three-ish years on the rich northern biomass of feed.  Very few commercially caught fish species don't cross artificial man-made political borders, and fewer care that they do.

This is only anectdotal, but I've caught two Sacramento River hatchery kings out on the Fairweather Grounds. They really travel.

[WSU]

Skillet - if you look at the numbers, the SE AK troll harvests heavily on a lot of southern stocks. I’d bet you’ve caught fish from a lot of interesting places.

I fished the north tip of queen Charlotte island this summer.  Like se ak, I’m sure the kings were a big mix of south bound fish. It was interesting to look at the kings and how different they look from stock to stock. I’ve seen it here in Washington obviously but it was interesting to look at dozens of kings over 4 days. We caught one that I’d bet money was hatchery tule, some that looked like urbs and some a variety of other stocks.

[WSU]

Jh - the numbers don’t lie.

And by harvesting juveniles, I mean that all those smaller kings caught over the 3 years they are feeding up north aren’t nature yet. They’d be a lot bigger if we let them grow another 2 or 4 years.

[gaddy]

I have to ask those that have way more knowledge than I, about Salmon. What impact does illegal fishing from other countries have on our runs? I remember watching a documentary on Salmon that showed satellite footage showing a fleet of Asian ships scooping up whole schools of Salmon in US territorial waters, then escaping into international waters before they could be intercepted. Kind of like a dine and dash. They evidently monitored where the Coast Guard boats were.
Then Japan had the tsunami that wiped out their fishing fleet. It seems that after that, we had some really high return numbers for a few years. Some years later, here we are shutting down seasons, or limiting catch numbers.
I hear about ocean conditions, water temps etc.. but have to wonder if the fish are ending up as sushi somewhere, or taken by sovereign nations
(foreign) other than the US or Canada.
Am I way off base here ?

[hunthard]

Here's a question for you, if all our fish runs migrate up to Alaska to feed and then come back, where do all the Alaskan fish go, the one that were born in the rivers in Alaska?