Wdfw Proposal for reduced youth antlerless moose tags

[bobcat]

The "any moose" tags are being changed to bull only tags.

[Matth]

This youth argument has been on here before. You are either for youth special draws or basically completely against it. As seen again on this thread.


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That's not entirely accurate, for example, I'm totally for allowing youth extra opportunity as long as herds can support the impact. When herds are down I think all or most antlerless harvest should be stopped until herds recover. A good example, I thought antlerless deer harvest should be reduced in NE WA after we had the big blue tongue die off, they did and we saved a lot of does. We are two years away from that and seeing more does, I agreed with the WDFW's proposal this year to increase antlerless harvest somewhat. In a year or two given reasonable winters I bet we can get back to season long youth/disabled/senior antlerless and offering more doe permits to all other hunters in each unit unless predation seems to be preventing a recovery.

Spot on

[jamesfromseattle]

I've got to agree with benhuntin as well.  I have a 10 year old that I would LOVE to see draw a youth moose tag, but when I go home to visit family and friends (I grew up in Kettle Falls), the moose population just isn't there anymore.  My BIL works for the highway dept in Steven's Co.  He keeps an eye out for them, and has seen a drastic reduction in numbers.  2 of my buddies that are loggers (and have max points for moose) say the same thing.  We are all a little scared to draw a tag right now to be honest.  There are still bulls out there, but not nearly what there were 5 or 6 years ago.
The truth is that if the moose aren't at carrying capacity, you have to rebuild the population by not killing the cows.  Youth tags are cow tags.   

Then replace it with a bull tag.  And all adult tags are ANY moose.  Not bull.

Cutting our nose off in spite of our face to continue to diminish youth opportunity.  My 13 year old knows of 2 other kids in his school that hunt.  2!  This is a school of 400-600 kids.  Sad testament to our times.

That’s two more than I knew in high school. Even if it’s not with moose tags, we need more youth opportunity for big game (maybe for small game too but I don’t know anything about small game hunting or its regs). I really like the idea of Oregon’s “first time” program. Would love to see something like that up here.

[X-Force]

I haven't seen the proposal.  How much are they planning to cut regular moose cow tags?

I count 32 in the regular antlerless category last year. For this year it looks like either 33 or 36, depending on what the actual number is for the one hunt that shows 74 tags, an obvious typo. I assume it should be either 7, or 4.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2018-2020/wac/220-415-070.pdf

Ok, so let me get this straight:
There were 18 youth tags, now there will be one.
There were 32 cow moose tags, there are still going to be at least 32.

Which begs the question:  Why didn't they just eliminate ALL the youth tags.  Why just leave the one?

Again... I ask myself "Why did WDFW do that.." and my answer has to be (again).  How does this affect their revenue stream?
You see, if they eliminate the youth tags altogether... then they lose out on the kids that will put in for them (lost revenue). 
And they left the regular cow tags the same.  Why would they do that?
Because they are making 10 times more money off that draw.

Tell me $$ isn't driving this.

For the record: I know the moose population is hurting up there... I've seen it.  I'm not saying that we shouldn't eliminate youth tags, but I think we should eliminate the same percentage of regular cow moose tags.   

That isn't true.

Yes youth permits went down from 18 to 1 but there weren't just 32 antlerless permits last year there was also 104 general any moose permits and 10 any moose Master Hunter permits.
The latest harvest reports 2016
Any moose permits
75 bulls were harvested 13 cows
To say that WDFW is restricting antlerless permits for youth is bs. They can apply for antlerless permits like the rest of us and the rest of use lost any moose for bull only.

If people really want to complain why not complain about the draw odds and breaking every species into little sub groups for permits. Increase draw odds for anyone to draw the permit they want... pick 1 species 2 options and no special categories (you can still have youth, disabled, over 65 etc but not as a sub category but under the umbrella of the whole species.) First option would be where you use your points second option would be only on leftover tags from the first option and no points used for that draw... So second deer, antlerless etc wouldn't necessarily require points to draw.

[bobcat]

They really can't change how the point system works now that it's already been in place several years. It was extremely unfair when they did it the first time. I agree all the extra categories were not necessary but now that we have them I think they should just keep it the way it is.

[Bob33]

There were 18 youth moose permits last year for 1800 applicants which means 99% of the applicants didn’t draw. I don’t buy the argument that eliminating the 18 youth moose permits will have a significant impact on youth hunting. There are hundreds of youth deer permits, and most are relatively easy to draw. The last few years the Seattle Puget Sound chapter of Safari Club has sponsored a free youth deer hunt for ten youth hunters, and the number of applicants is usually less than 30. Why is that?

Take a youth upland bird hunting or waterfowl hunting where they’ll shoot more than once. Teach them that hunting is much more than simply harvesting an animal. I started elk hunting with my dad when I was 12, and didn’t shoot an elk for more than 15 years of hunting with him but I have nothing but fond memories of those times.

And there isn’t an “Adult Moose permit” category; anyone with a hunting license can apply including a youth.

I’ll a big advocate of youth hunters, but this isn’t the issue to make much progress with.

[huntnphool]

They really can't change how the point system works now that it's already been in place several years. It was extremely unfair when they did it the first time. I agree all the extra categories were not necessary but now that we have them I think they should just keep it the way it is.

 They can change it, they won't because it generates revenue.

[X-Force]

They really can't change how the point system works now that it's already been in place several years. It was extremely unfair when they did it the first time. I agree all the extra categories were not necessary but now that we have them I think they should just keep it the way it is.

 They can change it, they won't because it generates revenue.

That and they have changed it since the switch adding conflict goat, moving quality and buck/bull permits around to entice people to apply for multiple categories.

Looking at how bad the odds are I'm waiting for Washington to come out with a Super Draw like Wyoming... allocate 25% of all tags to new special, more expensive draw to increase your odds...

[wolfbait]

I drew the 2016 Mount Spokane North cow permit.  I made 4 scouting trips and spent 14 days afield and seen a total of 4 moose.  And I put a LOT of boot miles on all trips.  And glassed a million square miles probably.  I did get a moose but after a butt load of work.  My avatar shows my cow.  If I recall, there were 7 cow permits and 8 youth cow permits.  I have to admit that was way too many.  I am not in total agreement of eliminating all permits, but I would be an advocate of maybe 1 or 2 cow permits total in that area.  When I drew the permit I thought I'd see moose everywhere.  Not the case.  And, there are no wolves there, according to WDFW.

There are wolves on the Idaho side of the border in that exact area. I guess wdfw has been so accurate in documenting wolves I wouldn’t second guess them on this one. I own property on the idaho side and can guarantee their are wolves there but they must not cross borders

The only time wolves cross borders, is when they are "migrating" to a new state.....

For more information contact the USFWS relocation teams.

[wolfbait]

No surprise here the Wolves are decimating the moose. 

Moose are and have been struggling in locations that are wolf free.  While wolves certainly will have an impact, it’s the ticks WA should also  be concerned with.

I agree with the ticks being a factor but I also remember people on this exact site predictions that moose would be in serious decline when the wolves showed up in Washington and also Idaho. There was also a lot of members on this site saying the anti wolf crowd were blowing everything out of proportion and that everything would be fine. Their exact prediction was the need to limit hunter opportunities and tags. I guess the guys crying wolf weren’t that far off after all.

The guys crying wolf didn't have their heads buried in the sand........

Moose, elk, deer etc. won't matter if WDFW and crew keep protections on the wolves. It's bad enough that cougar/bear hunting is limited, wolves are the tipping point.

[Skyvalhunter]

So what's your suggestion to what should be done?

[wolfbait]

So what's your suggestion to what should be done?

I have heard of a couple of ideas that seemed to be working in other states, unfortunately this being a public forum, watched by wolf loving screamers, I will have to reframe from sharing.

If you was to PM me I would be happy to pass the information along.

[180-GRAIN]

I commented on this with the department. Told them all cow tags should go to youth and disabled, 65 older hunters. Also told them I think if they do take all the youth tags away they need to limit non-resident quota to 10% like most other states so more resident hunters are awarded tags and youths eventually will have a shot. Its going to be hard enough for them to draw as is in there lifetime.

[hunter399]

This is where all the moose have gone ! Check it out!

[bearpaw]

The "any moose" tags are being changed to bull only tags.

   They are beginning to understand they need to conserve. Now eliminate cow tags completely in any unit where the #days per kill is increasing (that's probably the only way I think WDFW can currently judge fluctuation in moose population levels). Give the kids some of the bull tags. If you hunters are as big on kids as you say then give up some of the bull tags!