Wolf supporters, you happy ?

[trophyhunt]

Idahohntr is a serious Wolf apologist.  Consistently. 

Wolves absolutely are the tipping point that pushed us into a predator pit.  Also, the extreme duress put on pregnant cows by wolves has to affect calf survival.

Washington's ungulates are paying the price for WDFW's complete refusal to manage predators.  That includes but isn't limited to wolves.  We need some biologists to grow a pair, and raise a stink.  But we know they won't.  Bought and paid for. 

boom!  Mic drop!!

[idahohuntr]

I remember a couple years ago on here when the wolf debate started, there was a few members saying they were looking forward to the time when the wolf population was enough to hunt them?  Well, the wolf population is up, deer and elk are getting hit hard and still no hunts for wolves.  Maybe you’ll get your wish by the time we lose 75% of our game, you going to be happy then???  The blues used to be one of the best elk tags to draw in this entire country, now just in the past couple years it’s elk numbers has plumited, possibly by half!  So is this what you wanted, just to hunt wolves?  What a G damn waste!  I’m not that nieve to think this is all because of the wolves, but they get most of the blame.  You mad bro, or are you happy???

If you are complaining specifically about the lower numbers of elk in the blues recently, I would attribute nearly all of those declines to the very harsh and prolonged winter in 2016.

Im going to believe the guides that work and live in that country that I’ve talked with.

I live in the blues...watch bulls year round from my living room.  The winter of 2016 is a major cause of the recent declines.  Wolves did not just explode here...they are all around, but not in significant numbers to result in such a decline in one year.

[trophyhunt]

I remember a couple years ago on here when the wolf debate started, there was a few members saying they were looking forward to the time when the wolf population was enough to hunt them?  Well, the wolf population is up, deer and elk are getting hit hard and still no hunts for wolves.  Maybe you’ll get your wish by the time we lose 75% of our game, you going to be happy then???  The blues used to be one of the best elk tags to draw in this entire country, now just in the past couple years it’s elk numbers has plumited, possibly by half!  So is this what you wanted, just to hunt wolves?  What a G damn waste!  I’m not that nieve to think this is all because of the wolves, but they get most of the blame.  You mad bro, or are you happy???

If you are complaining specifically about the lower numbers of elk in the blues recently, I would attribute nearly all of those declines to the very harsh and prolonged winter in 2016.

Im going to believe the guides that work and live in that country that I’ve talked with.

I live in the blues...watch bulls year round from my living room.  The winter of 2016 is a major cause of the recent declines.  Wolves did not just explode here...they are all around, but not in significant numbers to result in such a decline in one year.

Thats a hell of a view to cover the blues from your living room. I’ll still side w the guys that make a living in there. 

[idaho guy]

How many deer/elk are killed each year by 200 wolves? Now lets look at the cougars. The estimate is 3500 to 4000 cats in the state.  They make a kill every 10 to 14 days.  Bears? There are 25000 to 30000 bears (fawn eaters) in the state. Coyotes? I've heard estimates of 100,000 or better. They are definitely fawn killers. You then throw in habitat lose and disease and things become clearer.

Anybody but an emotional non-thinker can do the math and see wolves are a small problem compared to all the other predators and environmental issues. If your whining about wolves and not about the extra 1500 cougars  in the state under the new harvest guidelines you need to reread "Little Red Riding Hood" and come to grips with your childhood fears.

. I agree but reality in Idaho is elk numbers didnt start rebounding until they got aggressive  on wolves. That tells me wolves are the cause of tipping point.

  we had way more lions and bears where I live in the “glory days” of Idaho elk hunting. Numbers went way down with wolves in a lot of areas with less lions and bears than what used to be there. I actually wish our lion population was higher since I love to chase them with hounds.wolves were definitely our problem. Since we have been managing them most areas are getting better but some will never be back to what they were. For whatever reason wolves are the problem I don’t know stress or how much they kill I just know they are the problem.

[kball4]

Wait!  I got a brillant idea lets put more grizzley bears into a predator dominated state.

[92xj]

Two men followed a pack of 7 wolves for 13 days and found 7 FRESH elk kills off the road they were traveling on snow mobiles. Not looking in the woods, drainagaes, etc.
1 medium pack, 13 days, 7 bull elk killed.
I think your computer numbers statiscal *censored* is nowhere close to what is actually happening in the woods.
Let's believe the wdfw in what they say, look at all the people believing the harvest stats that wdfw just posted. It blows my mind that people think those numbers are accurate.

[pianoman9701]

How many deer/elk are killed each year by 200 wolves? Now lets look at the cougars. The estimate is 3500 to 4000 cats in the state.  They make a kill every 10 to 14 days.  Bears? There are 25000 to 30000 bears (fawn eaters) in the state. Coyotes? I've heard estimates of 100,000 or better. They are definitely fawn killers. You then throw in habitat lose and disease and things become clearer.

Anybody but an emotional non-thinker can do the math and see wolves are a small problem compared to all the other predators and environmental issues. If your whining about wolves and not about the extra 1500 cougars  in the state under the new harvest guidelines you need to reread "Little Red Riding Hood" and come to grips with your childhood fears.

You're absolutely correct. Cougars and bears kill a lot of deer and elk. So gee, wouldn't it be responsible to add another apex predator when the WDFW already has a problem managing cougars and bears? It's like saying the house is already on fire. Let's add some kerosene. As far as your Little Red Riding Hood scenario is concerned, wolves act in very specific and predictable ways all over the world. It changes little or none from country to country. Once the wildlife is depleted, they feed on livestock and become more accustomed to being around humans. With nothing to fear, they start feeding closer to homes on pets and garbage. When the humans don't pose a threat, they start testing them and will eventually attack them. If you think wolves are no threat to humans, you really need to read more about countries where citizens aren't killing the wolves when they get out of hand. Russia, Iran, Scandinavian countries, Turkmenistan. Wolves will kill people and do it regularly, all over the world. Why do you think stories like Red Riding Hood were written?

Wolves kill around 200 people a year around world. Most in Asia. Bees kill more by far.. If you're worried about that, please head to your local college and ask for directions to their "Safe Space".

Funny thing is, when not hunting ungulates bears become a favorite target for wolves.. far more than humans or livestock. They also kill all competition by other predators in their "territories" including other wolves.

The wolf actually represents the werewolf in the 17 century original books. Modern children didn't understand that symbolism as werewolves aren't part of our culture.

Cars kill 10s of thousands a people per year, too. But that has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. You're really good at strawman, but that doesn't change the facts. We were duped, lied to, and made ignorant of relevant facts regarding the introduction of wolves into the western US. The environmental and economic impact estimates were incredibly inaccurate, painting a rosy, huggable image of the harmless wolf that would turn out to be completely false. We weren't told about the majority of these wolves being infected with a disease that spreads to canids, ungulates, and humans; either was Congress. And we were lied to about the intentions of the people pushing for this introduction, being told that the population would be controlled. I still believe we're still being lied to about our current wolf population. This reintroduction has been a total scam job by environmentalists and those US and WA wildlife officials who worked with those environmentalists to ultimately undermine our entire North American Wildlife Model.

[ctwiggs1]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the cougar quotas.  Seems like limiting the hunting on a predator that is well established would have a worse impact than a couple hundred wolves.

And no, I'm not a fan of wolves in this state.  I've got two small kids (3 and 1).  I'm not necessarily against seeing wolves and grizzlies, but I'm not wild about the idea of camping with my kids in an area where wolves are rampant.

[pianoman9701]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the cougar quotas.  Seems like limiting the hunting on a predator that is well established would have a worse impact than a couple hundred wolves.

And no, I'm not a fan of wolves in this state.  I've got two small kids (3 and 1).  I'm not necessarily against seeing wolves and grizzlies, but I'm not wild about the idea of camping with my kids in an area where wolves are rampant.

Without hounds, cougar quotas are rarely met, anyway, as far as i can tell.

[Cougartail]

Region 3 fills all quotas except in 371 and 372 for cougars. This year those were met also which was suprising due to land ownership.
You brought up the threat to humans and used the liberal tactics, "they are dangerous" even though few people are ever killed. (AR-15s are dangerous but kill few people..better ban them!) Argue valid points or I 'll continue to but thing into prespective..

[pianoman9701]

Region 3 fills all quotas except in 371 and 372 for cougars. This year those were met also which was suprising due to land ownership.
You brought up the threat to humans and used the liberal tactics, "they are dangerous" even though few people are ever killed. (AR-15s are dangerous but kill few people..better ban them!) Argue valid points or I 'll continue to but thing into prespective..

guns are guaranteed by constitutional rights. Again, a straw man. They have nothing to do with the predator spiral in WA. Either do bees, comets, or influenza. Also, there are 5 more regions which don't have the success of Region 3 on cougars, three of whom also have to deal with wolf populations. Cougar quotas should be dropped entirely but that still wouldn't help.

[Cougartail]

Two men followed a pack of 7 wolves for 13 days and found 7 FRESH elk kills off the road they were traveling on snow mobiles. Not looking in the woods, drainagaes, etc.
1 medium pack, 13 days, 7 bull elk killed.
I think your computer numbers statiscal *censored* is nowhere close to what is actually happening in the woods.
Let's believe the wdfw in what they say, look at all the people believing the
harvest stats that wdfw just posted. It blows my mind that people think those numbers are accurate.

Did your buddies check for bullet holes in those elk?  Wolves are so successful at hunting.. that is why they ate all the plastic coating off  extension cords at my buddies cabin in Alaska one winter. lol
As for believing those in the "feild", my buddy has over 50 years living with and trapping wolves in Alaska. Yeah I know Alaska wolves are completely different than Washington wolves.. Again..lol

[Timberstalker]

Region 3 fills all quotas except in 371 and 372 for cougars. This year those were met also which was suprising due to land ownership.
You brought up the threat to humans and used the liberal tactics, "they are dangerous" even though few people are ever killed. (AR-15s are dangerous but kill few people..better ban them!) Argue valid points or I 'll continue to but thing into prespective..

Lots of region 3 still open for Cougar hunting.....

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/cougar/

[92xj]

Two men followed a pack of 7 wolves for 13 days and found 7 FRESH elk kills off the road they were traveling on snow mobiles. Not looking in the woods, drainagaes, etc.
1 medium pack, 13 days, 7 bull elk killed.
I think your computer numbers statiscal *censored* is nowhere close to what is actually happening in the woods.
Let's believe the wdfw in what they say, look at all the people believing the
harvest stats that wdfw just posted. It blows my mind that people think those numbers are accurate.

Did your buddies check for bullet holes in those elk?  Wolves are so successful at hunting.. that is why they ate all the plastic coating off  extension cords at my buddies cabin in Alaska one winter. lol
As for believing those in the "feild", my buddy has over 50 years living with and trapping wolves in Alaska. Yeah I know Alaska wolves are completely different than Washington wolves.. Again..lol

Not my buddies...
Hard to check for bullet holes when they eat and break rib, leg, face and other bones when eating,  I thought you would know that wolves did that when eating kills in the winter when needing all the feed they can get, being the expert you are.
Call your Alaskan buddy, he can educate you more.
Sounds like you should venture out in the field; haven't been there in a while have you?

[Cougartail]

Region 3 fills all quotas except in 371 and 372 for cougars. This year those were met also which was suprising due to land ownership.
You brought up the threat to humans and used the liberal tactics, "they are dangerous" even though few people are ever killed. (AR-15s are dangerous but kill few people..better ban them!) Argue valid points or I 'll continue to but thing into prespective..

Lots of region 3 still open for Cougar hunting.....

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/cougar/

Region 3 is all units starting with the number 3.. all closed.