Cougar population in WA state over time?

[bigmacc]

I just googled Washington state cougar population, two of the sites that I clicked on said there are between 1,900 and 2,100 adult cougars in the state.

I've seen trail cam pics of female cougars with three kittens.
So how old does a cougar need to be to be considered an adult?

I'd day two years old, that's when mama kicks them out and gets knocked up again.

I think 2000 cougars is way way low, for crying out loud I have friends that live in Snohomish and they are seeing them around town, Lots of security cam pics have been posted, I have relatives that live in Darrington who are seeing them, I have a friend who was just up Robinson creek over in the Methow and they seen what you described(4 cats traveling together). Its just my opinion but I think those estimates are conveniently(for the state) about 1000 to low..

They don't really know what the population is, all they can do is estimate based on age and harvest data. The last estimate I heard from a WDFW manager was between 3000 to 4000, I don't know what their current estimate is, they may not have a current estimate? With the new director and current commission I have to wonder if quotas will be reduced further. 

I think your absolutely right bearpaw, I don't think they have any idea of how many there really are, I don't even think they are close, they could literally be off by thousands. An old friend of the family that is retired (from the Game Dept of old) said cougars are very hard to get  even ballpark counts of, usually they are solitary, shy and evasive animals until they overpopulate and thats when the average person will start seeing them in places they usually are not seen, he said all these sightings that have been going on over the last few years should be sending a message that the population is booming and prey numbers are declining...He said that just like any animal, when they are hungry, starving or being pushed out of areas by other cats they will become desperate and act differently and show themselves in places they normally wouldn't. He even said that these encounters are just the tip of the iceberg as far as cougars go. He also says that all the reports, pictures, encounters, sightings etc. should be a signal to the powers to be that steps need to be taken to drastically reduce cougar numbers...Yes, he said drastically!

[Gringo31]

I would be a tough job to reduce numbers without hounds.  Quota needs to go.....they travel so much I'm not sure it would matter if an area was light one year due to "over harvest".

[Humptulips]

I would be a tough job to reduce numbers without hounds.  Quota needs to go.....they travel so much I'm not sure it would matter if an area was light one year due to "over harvest".

Good point!
I don't understand why we even have all these cougar management areas with quotas. No other animal in the State is managed this way. They are plentiful throughout the State so if one area goes over a couple they in-migrate from adjacent units. Seems overly complicated for no reason.

[bigmacc]

I would be a tough job to reduce numbers without hounds.  Quota needs to go.....they travel so much I'm not sure it would matter if an area was light one year due to "over harvest".

Good point!
I don't understand why we even have all these cougar management areas with quotas. No other animal in the State is managed this way. They are plentiful throughout the State so if one area goes over a couple they in-migrate from adjacent units. Seems overly complicated for no reason.

Yep, when he said drastic measures he referred to eliminating quotas and going to a year round seasons, he said in areas close to more populated recreation areas etc. that the possibility of bountys should be considered. I said this in another thread but it really makes a person wonder why these predators and others are being so watched over?

[buglebrush]

I would be a tough job to reduce numbers without hounds.  Quota needs to go.....they travel so much I'm not sure it would matter if an area was light one year due to "over harvest".

Good point!
I don't understand why we even have all these cougar management areas with quotas. No other animal in the State is managed this way. They are plentiful throughout the State so if one area goes over a couple they in-migrate from adjacent units. Seems overly complicated for no reason.

Yep, when he said drastic measures he referred to eliminating quotas and going to a year round seasons, he said in areas close to more populated recreation areas etc. that the possibility of bountys should be considered. I said this in another thread but it really makes a person wonder why these predators and others are being so watched over?

Because they intend to end OTC hunting.  Predators are their most effective Ally. 

[KFhunter]

I would be a tough job to reduce numbers without hounds.  Quota needs to go.....they travel so much I'm not sure it would matter if an area was light one year due to "over harvest".

Good point!
I don't understand why we even have all these cougar management areas with quotas. No other animal in the State is managed this way. They are plentiful throughout the State so if one area goes over a couple they in-migrate from adjacent units. Seems overly complicated for no reason.

Yep, when he said drastic measures he referred to eliminating quotas and going to a year round seasons, he said in areas close to more populated recreation areas etc. that the possibility of bountys should be considered. I said this in another thread but it really makes a person wonder why these predators and others are being so watched over?

Because they intend to end OTC hunting.  Predators are their most effective Ally.

...and grazing
...and logging
...and mining

...and anything that doesn't fit the idea of "pristine" wilderness (except bicycles, they're OK)

[boneaddict]

only because bicyclists have been proven to be good food for the predators as well.....

did I go there?   Sorry, feeling kinda sarcastic tonight

[wolfbait]

I would be a tough job to reduce numbers without hounds.  Quota needs to go.....they travel so much I'm not sure it would matter if an area was light one year due to "over harvest".

Same reason wolves were designated as a big game animal, when they should be hunted the same as coyotes etc..

Wyoming had the right idea.

WA is doomed if things don't get turned around, need to delist wolves federally so wolves can be shot on sight.   

And hound hunting for cats and bears returned to WA

[jasnt]

Bear baiting would be nice too......as long as we’re dreaming

[Humptulips]

I would be a tough job to reduce numbers without hounds.  Quota needs to go.....they travel so much I'm not sure it would matter if an area was light one year due to "over harvest".

Good point!
I don't understand why we even have all these cougar management areas with quotas. No other animal in the State is managed this way. They are plentiful throughout the State so if one area goes over a couple they in-migrate from adjacent units. Seems overly complicated for no reason.

Yep, when he said drastic measures he referred to eliminating quotas and going to a year round seasons, he said in areas close to more populated recreation areas etc. that the possibility of bountys should be considered. I said this in another thread but it really makes a person wonder why these predators and others are being so watched over?

Because they intend to end OTC hunting.  Predators are their most effective Ally.

...and grazing
...and logging
...and mining

...and anything that doesn't fit the idea of "pristine" wilderness (except bicycles, they're OK)

Unless they are electric bicycles. Wait, what thread am I in?

[HighlandLofts]

Anything can be done, but at a monetary price if caught.

[W_Ellison2011]

Until last year I had only seen a Cougar 2 times in my time in the woods. Last year we spotted one and now this year, just last sunday, while driving out of an area (not going to say where because I want that cat!) my buddy and I saw another one. Thing went up a 100' hill in 3-4 good leaping strides and then stood at the top and looked down at us for a second before taking off. That's 2 in 2 years now. If I'm starting to see more cats where I didn't used to see them.. then that tells me 1 of 2 things. Either I was blind and never saw them before or there are a LOT more in the areas I frequent now and I need to be more on red alert at all times while out in those areas. Going to be setting up cams to see how often the cat frequents the area we saw it in. If I can pattern it you better believe I'm going to try and put a bullet in it!

[Shawn Ryan]

Is this the study you referred to phool?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2193/0022-541X%282006%2970%5B246%3ACPDAVI%5D2.0.CO%3B2

I have not found a link to the full study, but probably wouldn't understand it much better than I understand what is being presented in those two links.

Anybody have facts about the researchers and bias?  Not opinions, but examples of bias.  I'm always in favor of science, but not bogus science.  Not saying this research is bogus or not bogus. If these studies are accurate, then a reduction in cougar population would best be accomplished by targeting females. I don't know how you do that, but that would be the obvious conclusion.

I have seen some of Brian Kertson's work for UW (Brian collaborated on the above cited research).  He has collared a lot of western WA cats and studied their habits as they interact with people in the Cascade foothills. https://academic.oup.com/jmammal/article/94/2/269/909143,  Very cool work; didn't see any anti-hunting bias in the portions of his work that I've read.  I know some members on here know Brian personally and could comment on whether he has an anti-hunting bias.

[idahohuntr]

Been running a pile of trail cameras for over 10 years and had one cougar on camera up until 2 years ago. Now we're seeing multiple cats in several areas. I have a pair on camera 400yds from my back door. I know that's not scientific facts, but it is my first hand observation.

Similar experience for me.  I just had a big cat on the trail camera 75 yards behind my house yesterday...at 1pm!!  I've never had daytime cat pics...makes  me wonder just how bold they are getting with the lack of hunting pressure    I will go run my property on the atv tonight and see how many fans he got...I've had several hanging around lately.

[huntnphool]

http://www.mountainlion.org/us/wa/library/WA-R-Wielgus-2015-PPT-Effects-of-Sport-Hunting-on-Cougar-Population-Community-and-Landscape-Ecology-HSUSconf.pdf