Wolves tree DNR worker in Okanogan county

[jackelope]

Going back in history, the threats to human safety are pretty rare, wolfbait.

I don't disagree that the woods are different these days. There are definitely predator issues and more potential for predator/people issues... I don't agree that any of those articles say that wolves aren't potentially dangerous to people. I read that as saying generally they are shy and avoid people. I believe that generally that is accurate. Could just be the way I'm reading into it versus the way you're reading into it.

Wolf attacks in the US are rare because we killed them when we saw them. They learned to fear us and stayed out of our way and range. We've always been armed and we've always killed wolves. That's not true anymore. In states where they're protected, they have no reason to fear humans. If you read about wolves that aren't threatened by the local residents, attacks are not only not rare but common. Russia has a lengthy history of disarmed citizens who need the government to come in every couple of decades to clear them out from small villages that are threatened and their residents attacked. Iran, Scandinavia, and Kazakhstan have similar cycles and many wolf attacks on record. The state of WA is being irresponsible. They've eliminated any fear these wolves have of people by continuing to protect them, even while their population has grown far beyond the need. At the same time, they continue to push the narrative that wolves avoid people and aren't a threat. It's not true and incidents like this one will increase...and I guarantee that sooner or later, people will be attacked and killed. The information is out there if you're interested in having it.

You've mentioned this multiple times and I've responded by saying I've read it multiple times.

[bigmacc]

When I was 9 or 10 my dad would drop me in spots in the Methow and tell me to make it back to camp, sometimes it was 4 or 5 miles(I didn't know it but he was keeping an eye on me the whole time ), he would give me a motivational speech and go over where certain landmarks were et. etc. One of the things he used to tell me was there was there was nothing out there that was gonna "get me" but to always be aware of what was around me and to always be prepared for anything that could pose a threat, there is no way I would turn my grandkids loose over there now days because there seems to be a lot of different things that can "get you". A lot has changed in the last 50+years.

[vandeman17]

When I was 9 or 10 my dad would drop me in spots in the Methow and tell me to make it back to camp, sometimes it was 4 or 5 miles(I didn't know it but he was keeping an eye on me the whole time ), he would give me a motivational speech and go over where certain landmarks were et. etc. One of the things he used to tell me was there was there was nothing out there that was gonna "get me" but to always be aware of what was around me and to always be prepared for anything that could pose a threat, there is no way I would turn my grandkids loose over there now days because there seems to be a lot of different things that can "get you". A lot has changed in the last 50+years.

same for me. I was dropped off plenty of times and told to head "that direction" and my old man would pick me up. In all my years of being in the woods alone, even at a young age, I have never really been scared.  Creeped out plenty of times but never genuinely fearful.

[hunter399]

When I was 9 or 10 my dad would drop me in spots in the Methow and tell me to make it back to camp, sometimes it was 4 or 5 miles(I didn't know it but he was keeping an eye on me the whole time ), he would give me a motivational speech and go over where certain landmarks were et. etc. One of the things he used to tell me was there was there was nothing out there that was gonna "get me" but to always be aware of what was around me and to always be prepared for anything that could pose a threat, there is no way I would turn my grandkids loose over there now days because there seems to be a lot of different things that can "get you". A lot has changed in the last 50+years.

same for me. I was dropped off plenty of times and told to head "that direction" and my old man would pick me up. In all my years of being in the woods alone, even at a young age, I have never really been scared.  Creeped out plenty of times but never genuinely fearful.

Same here but I was always dropped at the bottom of mountain and told ,see you at the top.
Old man be waiting up there hoping I would push something in his direction.

[jackelope]

A member who wishes to remain anonymous sent this to me and asked me to post it for the sake of conversation.


So…I’m going to go out on a limb here and try to offer up a comparison. One that isn’t as sexy, one without the drama – but I promise I will try to make it as scary as possible. I’ll try not to draw it out and make it too long. Full disclosure, I am taking some creative liberties here.


Say you decide to go out and pick huckleberries. Your buddy can’t make it to go with you, but your wife really wants to make a pie so you decide to go for a jaunt in the woods by yourself. Maybe 2 or 3 miles in, checking your trail cam while you are at it. Oh, and when you hit the woods, you realize you left your trusty pocket bazooka (no innuendo intended) at home on the counter. Well, you’re out there anyway so you might as well pick the berries and get back home.


While you are in the thick brush, well back in the woods, you hear an unusual sound and tentatively creep forward another 50 yards to investigate. The sound gets louder, when all of a sudden, the brush opens up and you find yourself face-to-face with a mamma black bear. This is the first time you have seen a bear in the wild before. Behind her you catch a glimpse of a 1.5-year-old cub – no, wait – let’s make it two cubs to make it scarier. Before you can react, the mamma bear charges at you, then stops 10 yards away. It’s a bluff charge, but enough to get your heart to do somersaults. She backs up, then does it again, complete with huffing and jaw-popping. You think, “Crap! I’m gonna get et up! I better skee-dattle on outta here!” You hear rustling off to the side in the bushes in front of you, and in a panic, you shimmy up the nearest Doug fir. Maybe not the best idea, but you did it in an impulse and now the mamma bear is at the base of the tree with her two 150 lb. cubs. Hmmm, you’re sure in a pickle now… 


After a few minutes, you decide that you might need some assistance, since the bear is giving you no indication that it plans on leaving. Luckily, you have a phone in your pocket (and Verizon for your cell carrier). You call 911 and request help. Next thing you know, a chopper comes in and whisks you off to safety. The crew in the chopper (or at least someone involved in the rescue operation) has orders to kill all three bears on-site, but the bears run off when the bird lands.


So, my question to everyone is this – did those bears (cubs included) pose an immediate public safety risk? Because of the bear’s actions, should a crew of local law enforcement be tasked with fully investigating this incident (trumping whatever management actions USFS/USFWS/WDFW may be taking), to include whacking the bears if they find them in the woods again (I realize there is a disparity here, as bears are not federally protected in this story)? Was the momma bear acting in a threatening, or in a defensive manner, and should she and her cubs be euthanized for what happened?


First of all, I am by no means criticizing the USFS worker or any of the rescue crew involved. Granted, I have a bias, as every single one of us does – but I’m trying to not portray this too slanted…  I tried to concoct a similar scenario here as to what happened with the wolves. I know many on here will balk and cry foul, shouting, “Hey wait a minute, you are comparing apples to asparagus! Unlike those invasive Canadian wolves, bears aren’t bloodthirsty savages that gobble up helpless government employees and babies just for the thrill of it!” (while in the back of your head you do the math and recount the disproportionate number of bear attacks compared to wolf attacks). Well, I find the two scenarios pretty darn similar. But that’s just me. Seriously though – when you reflect on what went down, do you or do you not think euthanasia is warranted here?


I’m hoping that those who disagree with the euthanasia route won’t automatically be labelled as a WDF and Wolves sympathizer, bleeding-heart, granola munching, spotted 

-owl kisser. And similarly, I hope those that truly think someone should go in and kill the bears aren’t labelled as…well…I don’t know – but you get the picture. Unfortunately, I’ve read enough posts here to know not to hold my breath. If you feel like weighing in on this, feel free. I honestly just want people to stop the hysteria and social media frenzy long enough to pause and replay the scenario with a similar predator that carries just a little (ok, a lot) less of a stigma, and be honest with themselves regardless of how much they despise (or love) wolves.


And please, let the ridiculous, extreme speculation and collusion theories continue to spill forth.

[PlateauNDN]

I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress

[Jonathan_S]

Not really sure I understand the point of that long - albeit well, worded and slightly pious  - comparison.  Seems just as speculative as the 50% of the thread and it's not even that good of a comparison unless one is already taking a side on a lot of the unknowns (speculation).

This thread really isn't generating any positive discussion and everybody who's commenting on it has their mind made up.  Every single publicized statement will be interpreted based on what is already believed by the individual(s) and we'll continue to ridicule one another over semantics.

[Special T]

I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress

I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..

[wolfbait]

Going back in history, the threats to human safety are pretty rare, wolfbait.

I don't disagree that the woods are different these days. There are definitely predator issues and more potential for predator/people issues... I don't agree that any of those articles say that wolves aren't potentially dangerous to people. I read that as saying generally they are shy and avoid people. I believe that generally that is accurate. Could just be the way I'm reading into it versus the way you're reading into it.

Wolf attacks in the US are rare because we killed them when we saw them. They learned to fear us and stayed out of our way and range. We've always been armed and we've always killed wolves. That's not true anymore. In states where they're protected, they have no reason to fear humans. If you read about wolves that aren't threatened by the local residents, attacks are not only not rare but common. Russia has a lengthy history of disarmed citizens who need the government to come in every couple of decades to clear them out from small villages that are threatened and their residents attacked. Iran, Scandinavia, and Kazakhstan have similar cycles and many wolf attacks on record. The state of WA is being irresponsible. They've eliminated any fear these wolves have of people by continuing to protect them, even while their population has grown far beyond the need. At the same time, they continue to push the narrative that wolves avoid people and aren't a threat. It's not true and incidents like this one will increase...and I guarantee that sooner or later, people will be attacked and killed. The information is out there if you're interested in having it.

  Well said P-man-

I think you rely too much on what WDFW claim, jack. I know of at least eight people who have been stalked by wolves on the Valley floor and a few who have had wolves follow them for several miles in the high country. We have had wolves kill deer within a hundred yards of our house, had them looking in the living room window, the same wolves that WDFW claim are shy and avoid people.

Now we have mule deer fawning-out in Twisp, around rural homes and along the state and county paved roads, they aren't there because they like getting splattered on the roads, they are their to avoid wolves, etc.. Couple of years ago wolves killed a doe in the front yard of some people that live just around the mountain from us, then there are the wolves that attack dogs right on the front porch, once agin the same wolves that are shy and avoid people.

As P-man said it will only get worse, with less prey and as wolves become more habitual to people, wolf/human attacks will occur more frequently.

A few years ago we were up at the shooting range, there were three guys in those funny little snowshoes that are practically worthless, these guys were "snowshoeing" on a hard packed road in two inches of fresh snow, I ask them if they thought they could outrun the wolves with them rigs on their feet, one of them snarled that wolves don't bother people.

 Don't feel like the lone ranger jack, you are not alone in your way of thinking or reading....

[PlateauNDN]

I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress

I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..

I'll stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!

[fishngamereaper]

I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress

I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..

I'll stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!

Can I spot and call your wind......

[Cougartail]

I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress

I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..

I'll try to stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!

Fixed it for you.. Lots of bravado and little reality. I've actually tried in Alaska.. Trapping is the only way to get many.

[fishngamereaper]

I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress

I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..

I'll try to stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!

Fixed it for you.. Lots of bravado and little reality. I've actually tried in Alaska.. Trapping is the only way to get many.

Or you just stand in one spot and they come hunting you...kind of like baiting I guess.

[jackelope]

I just want a WA st. Wolf head dress

I want you and every other Native to have one... Im more curious to find out how the State and Feds react when the Colville Tribe starts stacking wolves up on the North half..

I'll try to stack'em like wood once the feds delist in the areas I hunt. State can kiss my ...!

Fixed it for you.. Lots of bravado and little reality. I've actually tried in Alaska.. Trapping is the only way to get many.

Or you just stand in one spot and they come hunting you...kind of like baiting I guess.

Judging by some of the comments in this thread, this would be a very effective way of hunting wolves.

[Jpmiller]

I was threatened by a deer once and it attacked my dog. Wdfw told me deer we're shy and avoided humans but this one was a mean one and it kicked my dog real good and would have got me too if my normally timid dog hadn't come to my defense. How come wdfw didn't warn me of the threat of deer and effectively manage them so as to make them fearful of humans like they should be?

The deer acting all aggressive and beating up my dog really happened btw, and in the methow fwiw.

Also fwiw my old man lives in the methow and we have had cougar bear wolf and deer activity on his property and I let my 3 year old roam around out there. I've had bear and possibly a bobcat at my place in wilkeson and I let my 3 year old and 1 year old play out there outside of my immediate influence. When did the woods get so frightening that even the thought of danger made us all run and hide? There's as much chance of me or my family getting killed going to collect groceries than in the woods. Be aware but don't let fear of an improbable animal attack keep you from enjoying time outside.