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Author Topic: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out  (Read 3530 times)

Offline bearpaw

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2018, 05:01:34 PM »
forest service to be reduced to only what they were originally created for, to fight forest fires.

So, where does that leave us?

Realistically I doubt that will happen! I would be happy to see more logging rather than letting all that good timber burn! Sure, any land with growth can burn, but there is a much better chance of controlling a fire where there are breaks in the dense forest, and logging makes breaks in the forests. Having more logging will keep more dollars and jobs in the US rather than buying Canadian lumber and leave much better economies in rural towns!
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2018, 05:08:07 PM »
More winning, Trump Admin proposes dumping roadless rule to log in CA, that hopefully will follow throughout the west!  :IBCOOL:


Trump Admin. Dumping ‘Roadless Rule’ to Log Los Padres Forest
https://www.breitbart.com/california/2018/08/09/trump-admin-dumping-roadless-rule-to-log-los-padres-forest/

Quote
According to the Ecological Institute at Northern Arizona University, research data reveals that southwestern forests through the 1990s were “open-structured” forests that were subject low-intensity fires due to relatively light fuel loads of vegetation, downed needles, and woody debris, and also due to smaller tree saplings and seedlings.

But these same forests two decades later have become much denser, and the majority of fires have quickly been suppressed to protect natural resources, human communities, and structures. Consequently, the accumulation of fuels has greatly increased the likelihood of “wildfires of unprecedented severity” due to active crown fires spreading from tree to tree through the canopy of densely packed forest stands.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 05:17:32 PM by bearpaw »
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2018, 05:24:06 PM »
forest service to be reduced to only what they were originally created for, to fight forest fires.

So, where does that leave us?

Realistically I doubt that will happen! I would be happy to see more logging rather than letting all that good timber burn! Sure, any land with growth can burn, but there is a much better chance of controlling a fire where there are breaks in the dense forest, and logging makes breaks in the forests. Having more logging will keep more dollars and jobs in the US rather than buying Canadian lumber and leave much better economies in rural towns!
More vegetation for animals to feed on also

Offline bearpaw

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2018, 05:31:02 PM »
forest service to be reduced to only what they were originally created for, to fight forest fires.

So, where does that leave us?

Realistically I doubt that will happen! I would be happy to see more logging rather than letting all that good timber burn! Sure, any land with growth can burn, but there is a much better chance of controlling a fire where there are breaks in the dense forest, and logging makes breaks in the forests. Having more logging will keep more dollars and jobs in the US rather than buying Canadian lumber and leave much better economies in rural towns!
More vegetation for animals to feed on also

 :yeah: My best hunting is on private lands that are regularly logged and thinned every 10 years or so. The USFS lands would support so much more wildlife if so many acres weren't dead on the forest floor caused by all the overaged timber.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline NOCK NOCK

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2018, 08:34:30 PM »
I actually posted this in the Cougar creek Fire thread...………….but is fitting for here.


Not say that I am getting old, but this is the third time in my lifetime that I remember this exact area burning. 1972 Gold Ridge and Slide Ridge Fire combined to make one huge fire. 1994 the Tyee complex burned all the way to the City of Chelan. Now the Cougar Creek Fire. This doesn’t take into account all the other fires that have taken place in the Entiat watershed.

The biggest question now is how will all the different agencies involved manage the area for the next several years. It seems after every Fire season someone comes up with new post fire manage plan to compensate for the last plan that didn’t quite work like they had hoped for.


As usual they will manage it improperly.  :twocents:


Look at the last 10 years in the Entiat Valley, The USFS major job is no longer managing the forest, its managing fires, and doing a piss poor job of it. No more logging, and they are very vocal about prescribed burns......which they constantly tell the public will help to control huge fires.  Take Tyee as an example, during the last big fire (Wolverine I believe) they spent tons of cash making a supposable 300' wide fire break for miles(It was more like 30' wide BTW). It went all the way up Tyee ridge, and somewhere back in behind Leavenworth/Lake Wenatchee/Plain area. For the last 2-3 years they have did a ton of prescribed burns along Tyee Ridge........How are those working out for them right now?  :bash:

The FS also likes to distribute the Koolaid that because we suppressed fires for so many years....this is why the big ones are happening now. HOGWASH!!
Responsible logging breaks up large tracts of timber, reducing the possibility of fires becoming huge. Suppression of fires while they are small saves miles and miles of timber/forest land. At the pace the USFS is letting the valleys burn, 10 more years and there wont be a tree up there taller than 12'.

Our USFS is a hot mess that is totally out of control. Until we can find a way to reel them in, and back to managing OUR forests for ALL user groups, the carnage will continue.


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Offline jmscon

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2018, 10:18:23 PM »
forest service to be reduced to only what they were originally created for, to fight forest fires.

So, where does that leave us?

Realistically I doubt that will happen! I would be happy to see more logging rather than letting all that good timber burn! Sure, any land with growth can burn, but there is a much better chance of controlling a fire where there are breaks in the dense forest, and logging makes breaks in the forests. Having more logging will keep more dollars and jobs in the US rather than buying Canadian lumber and leave much better economies in rural towns!

I’d be happy to see more logging as well! Watching the Sanpoil mill close down and instantly cause 10% unemployment in Republic was heartbreaking! And I heard the plywood mill in Omak has closed.

I just think that a lot more land is getting burnt up and out of control than just FS land.
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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2018, 11:54:07 PM »
forest service to be reduced to only what they were originally created for, to fight forest fires.

So, where does that leave us?

Realistically I doubt that will happen! I would be happy to see more logging rather than letting all that good timber burn! Sure, any land with growth can burn, but there is a much better chance of controlling a fire where there are breaks in the dense forest, and logging makes breaks in the forests. Having more logging will keep more dollars and jobs in the US rather than buying Canadian lumber and leave much better economies in rural towns!
More vegetation for animals to feed on also

 :yeah: My best hunting is on private lands that are regularly logged and thinned every 10 years or so. The USFS lands would support so much more wildlife if so many acres weren't dead on the forest floor caused by all the overaged timber.
I've had quite a bit of success hunting Harvest units also, but that doesn't mean we should Harvest everything out there. The animals we hunt aren't the only ones that deserve a place to live in the woods

Offline bearpaw

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2018, 05:06:18 AM »
forest service to be reduced to only what they were originally created for, to fight forest fires.

So, where does that leave us?

Realistically I doubt that will happen! I would be happy to see more logging rather than letting all that good timber burn! Sure, any land with growth can burn, but there is a much better chance of controlling a fire where there are breaks in the dense forest, and logging makes breaks in the forests. Having more logging will keep more dollars and jobs in the US rather than buying Canadian lumber and leave much better economies in rural towns!
More vegetation for animals to feed on also

 :yeah: My best hunting is on private lands that are regularly logged and thinned every 10 years or so. The USFS lands would support so much more wildlife if so many acres weren't dead on the forest floor caused by all the overaged timber.
I've had quite a bit of success hunting Harvest units also, but that doesn't mean we should Harvest everything out there. The animals we hunt aren't the only ones that deserve a place to live in the woods

Never said we had to harvest everything, I agree with keeping "never logged areas" never logged, I agree with keeping current wilderness, I don't agree with the near total elimination of logging that enviro whackos forced upon us, the removal of forest access and fire protection roads also used by the public for decades, and the fact that we have to import timber products from Canada as a result of enviro laws was pure economic ignorance at it's finest!

Nature has pretty well established this fact: "Log it, graze, it, or let it burn!" One way or another these dense over aged forests are more unnatural than if we had allowed/continued logging the last three decades!
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2018, 05:23:20 AM »
 :yeah: If you were to go into a lot of the large Hemlock timber stands or know anything about the species you would know that a majority of the interior of those trees are rotten. While they look like a normal large tree on the out side you would discover most have center rot. So it would be better to log them and replant. Its a renewable resource.

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2018, 09:31:45 AM »
Why would it be better to log them and replant them if they have heart rot?  Thats a pretty broad brush manahement approach.  They provide habitat and structure as big standing trees

Offline timberfaller

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2018, 10:33:55 AM »
The prophesy of the Cattlemen's Association back in the late 80's after about 15 years of backwards thinking by USFS and Politicians is coming home to roost!!!

The held a meeting in Spokane WA over grazing and range wars taking place, they stated that if they(USFS,DNR,BLM) didn't change their ways, YOU'D see the results just sitting in your ivory towers in Spokane when it went up in smoke!

Oh so Right!!

Had a dispatch for a dozer Saturday afternoon,  all it did was go out and open up roads which had been water barred or tank trapped! :bash: :bash: :bash:   Newbies on fire teams are asking, "what has happened to all these roads that are shown on our maps???" :o :o :o
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Offline Cougartail

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2018, 12:49:59 PM »

 and the fact that we have to import timber products from Canada as a result of enviro laws was pure economic ignorance at it's finest!

The economic ignorance was logging off all our lands and selling it to Japan for pennies on the dollar through legal loopholes and buying off special interests.

The Spotted Owl was used to stop this unethical practice that made a few rich at the expense of the taxpayers/citizens. It cost the Forest Service far more to sell trees than it took in in revenue.. majorly stupid!

Also if you look at old growth forests (200+ years old.) they have little burnable under brush, cooler temperatures and far higher humidity. They fight their own fires..


All timber sales should take into account fire suppression, road management, and sale set-up cost. The taxpayers don't need to subsidize home ownership in America. Let the Canadians..
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 07:38:59 AM by Cougartail »

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2018, 03:24:00 PM »
forest service to be reduced to only what they were originally created for, to fight forest fires.

So, where does that leave us?

Realistically I doubt that will happen! I would be happy to see more logging rather than letting all that good timber burn! Sure, any land with growth can burn, but there is a much better chance of controlling a fire where there are breaks in the dense forest, and logging makes breaks in the forests. Having more logging will keep more dollars and jobs in the US rather than buying Canadian lumber and leave much better economies in rural towns!
More vegetation for animals to feed on also

 :yeah: My best hunting is on private lands that are regularly logged and thinned every 10 years or so. The USFS lands would support so much more wildlife if so many acres weren't dead on the forest floor caused by all the overaged timber.
I've had quite a bit of success hunting Harvest units also, but that doesn't mean we should Harvest everything out there. The animals we hunt aren't the only ones that deserve a place to live in the woods

Nobody's pushing for logging everything out there.  Stop coming up with false calamities to muddy the issues.  Without a return to logging areas that we used to log, wildlife will suffer immensely; and frankly must of us don't love wolves and grizzlies like you do.  What's wrong with managing for healthy ungulate populations for a change?  It'll actually improve long-term predator populations as well.

Offline wolfbait

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2018, 08:21:04 PM »
Management of these forests is the only answer.   Letting fires burn to reduce the fuel load is not a realistic answer with today's population density.  The forests of the past that evolved to handle fires no longer exist. We have changed the landscape therefore we have a responsibility to manage it properly. 

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100% agree!! Once we cut the forests they are changed FOREVER and they need to be managed properly!

If we logged responsibly I would be all for it, but as long as I find these signs at every new clear cut, no way.

This too!
I don't think the recent increase in fire activity is entirely due to forest conditions and restrictions.  I watched a DNR cut burn just as hot as private timberland and FS land.... Climate change absolutely has changed fire frequency and severity.

Utility Co. Blames Global Warming for Wildfires, Fails to Mention It Started 12 of Them

https://www.westernjournal.com/utility-co-blames-global-warming/?ff_source=Email&ff_medium=trump-supporters&ff_campaign=dailypm&ff_content=western-journal

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: After Libs Blame West Coast Fires on Global Warming, Forester Speaks out
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2018, 07:45:27 AM »
forest service to be reduced to only what they were originally created for, to fight forest fires.

So, where does that leave us?

Realistically I doubt that will happen! I would be happy to see more logging rather than letting all that good timber burn! Sure, any land with growth can burn, but there is a much better chance of controlling a fire where there are breaks in the dense forest, and logging makes breaks in the forests. Having more logging will keep more dollars and jobs in the US rather than buying Canadian lumber and leave much better economies in rural towns!
More vegetation for animals to feed on also

 :yeah: My best hunting is on private lands that are regularly logged and thinned every 10 years or so. The USFS lands would support so much more wildlife if so many acres weren't dead on the forest floor caused by all the overaged timber.
I've had quite a bit of success hunting Harvest units also, but that doesn't mean we should Harvest everything out there. The animals we hunt aren't the only ones that deserve a place to live in the woods

Nobody's pushing for logging everything out there.  Stop coming up with false calamities to muddy the issues.  Without a return to logging areas that we used to log, wildlife will suffer immensely; and frankly must of us don't love wolves and grizzlies like you do.  What's wrong with managing for healthy ungulate populations for a change?  It'll actually improve long-term predator populations as well.
What areas did we "used to log"??  Pretty much EVERYTHING, which has helped get us into this problem.  Managing for healthy ungulate populations is great- but you can't just manage for ungulates.  You do recognize that there are more nongame species than just wolves and grizzlies right??? 

I think it's remarkable that this thread has made it 3 pages and no one has mentioned prescribed fire as being a possible solution.

 

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