Yakama Nation Sheep Tags

[Rainier10]

How much Indian do you currently need to be to have hunting rights?

Since this is Washington state I am currently trying to work the "I relate to being a native american" angle.  I will be starting a "gofundme" page for my legal fees after I whack a sheep this year. 

[shallowforks]

I just love how many try to interpret my culture and history as if they are tribal members.

You want it you got it. A spade is a spade. I do because I can. I do because it's my Reserved Right. My ancestors were better negotiators than the US gov't and now people are upset because we're  sticking to the agreed upon stipulations.

We weren't given nothing, granted nothing, our Ancestors Reserved Our Rights during the negotiations.  Our Treaty is apart of the US Constitution and the Supreme Law of the Land for us.

I will exercise my Rights as I exercise all my other Rights. If you dont like it then to bad.

I honestly thought this place was starting to turn a chapter but it seems nothing ceases to amaze me.

 Thanks for admitting it.

Can WE ADMIT to our own jealousy? In a time where many feel that opportunity is diminished and one group gets to play by a different set of rules? Can WE ADMIT that we too would exercise the right if we had it? can WE ADMIT that PLATEAUNDN said nothing other than facts. Can we let go of our jealousy in order to work for a better future. through my eyes whether a species was indigenous or not is irrelevant when a people has hunting rights to the land. If WE didn't want them to issue their own ram tags outside the WDFW system then WE should have negotiated that with them all those years ago BEFORE we spent the recources to put the rams there. We cannot place blame on them for our own shortsightedness

[Hoythunter]

I just love how many try to interpret my culture and history as if they are tribal members.

You want it you got it. A spade is a spade. I do because I can. I do because it's my Reserved Right. My ancestors were better negotiators than the US gov't and now people are upset because we're  sticking to the agreed upon stipulations.

We weren't given nothing, granted nothing, our Ancestors Reserved Our Rights during the negotiations.  Our Treaty is apart of the US Constitution and the Supreme Law of the Land for us.

I will exercise my Rights as I exercise all my other Rights. If you dont like it then to bad.

I honestly thought this place was starting to turn a chapter but it seems nothing ceases to amaze me.

I respect everything you stated, but if the tables were turn would you not be a bit frustrated to the least?  I think it’s our right to be frustrated with this specific case, just as much as it’s the tribes right to supposedly hunt these rams...

[bobcat]

Tribal members should have the right to apply for sheep tags just like all of us do. The same sheep tags. Yes they have the right to hunt certain areas, that's guaranteed to them by treaty. But they don't have the right to kill more sheep than the sheep population can sustain. Just like they shouldn't be allowed to kill an unlimited number of deer and elk like they do. But I don't blame them. I blame our state government for allowing it to happen. The treaty gave them the right to hunt "in common" with us. It didn't say we can't make them follow our seasons and our limits. On the reservation fine, kill everything, that's their decision. But off reservation the state SHOULD require them to follow all the same rules as everyone else.

[baker5150]

I just love how many try to interpret my culture and history as if they are tribal members.

You want it you got it. A spade is a spade. I do because I can. I do because it's my Reserved Right. My ancestors were better negotiators than the US gov't and now people are upset because we're  sticking to the agreed upon stipulations.

We weren't given nothing, granted nothing, our Ancestors Reserved Our Rights during the negotiations.  Our Treaty is apart of the US Constitution and the Supreme Law of the Land for us.

I will exercise my Rights as I exercise all my other Rights. If you dont like it then to bad.

I honestly thought this place was starting to turn a chapter but it seems nothing ceases to amaze me.

 Thanks for admitting it.

Can WE ADMIT to our own jealousy? In a time where many feel that opportunity is diminished and one group gets to play by a different set of rules? Can WE ADMIT that we too would exercise the right if we had it? can WE ADMIT that PLATEAUNDN said nothing other than facts. Can we let go of our jealousy in order to work for a better future. through my eyes whether a species was indigenous or not is irrelevant when a people has hunting rights to the land. If WE didn't want them to issue their own ram tags outside the WDFW system then WE should have negotiated that with them all those years ago BEFORE we spent the recources to put the rams there. We cannot place blame on them for our own shortsightedness

1st,  Don't play the jealousy card, that's a cop out for a lack of an actual argument.  It's about equal distribution of a resource, as well as responsible distribution, or lack there of if necessary.  It's also about equality of opportunity for all, not those someone, at some time, saw fit to get a little more than the rest of us.  Times change, resources change, NEED(s) change.

2nd, the ONLY way we can work together for a better solution, is through equality in opportunity, which will NEVER happen.  There is no way the Tribes will willingly give up anything, and I don't blame them, but you will never end this argument otherwise. 

3rd, WE didn't negotiate, those guys are long dead and gone. Post your blame on the proper heads.

[jackelope]

This isn’t or shouldn’t be about jealousy or equal distribution to different user groups. . It should be about conservation. This should be about whether or not the herd can sustain 5 mature rams coming out of that unit in one year. If the tribe wants equal distribution, this may mean the state tag # gets dropped to one assuming the tribe would drop their number to one as well.  That is what this “should” be about if you ask me. Although most of us will never get to hunt those sheep, that is a world class Cali sheep hunt where the world record cali Ram was taken and hopefully it’s not about to be ruined. 

[trophyhunt]

I just love how many try to interpret my culture and history as if they are tribal members.

You want it you got it. A spade is a spade. I do because I can. I do because it's my Reserved Right. My ancestors were better negotiators than the US gov't and now people are upset because we're  sticking to the agreed upon stipulations.

We weren't given nothing, granted nothing, our Ancestors Reserved Our Rights during the negotiations.  Our Treaty is apart of the US Constitution and the Supreme Law of the Land for us.

I will exercise my Rights as I exercise all my other Rights. If you dont like it then to bad.

I honestly thought this place was starting to turn a chapter but it seems nothing ceases to amaze me.

 Thanks for admitting it.

Can WE ADMIT to our own jealousy? In a time where many feel that opportunity is diminished and one group gets to play by a different set of rules? Can WE ADMIT that we too would exercise the right if we had it? can WE ADMIT that PLATEAUNDN said nothing other than facts. Can we let go of our jealousy in order to work for a better future. through my eyes whether a species was indigenous or not is irrelevant when a people has hunting rights to the land. If WE didn't want them to issue their own ram tags outside the WDFW system then WE should have negotiated that with them all those years ago BEFORE we spent the recources to put the rams there. We cannot place blame on them for our own shortsightedness

1st,  Don't play the jealousy card, that's a cop out for a lack of an actual argument.  It's about equal distribution of a resource, as well as responsible distribution, or lack there of if necessary.  It's also about equality of opportunity for all, not those someone, at some time, saw fit to get a little more than the rest of us.  Times change, resources change, NEED(s) change.

2nd, the ONLY way we can work together for a better solution, is through equality in opportunity, which will NEVER happen.  There is no way the Tribes will willingly give up anything, and I don't blame them, but you will never end this argument otherwise. 

3rd, WE didn't negotiate, those guys are long dead and gone. Post your blame on the proper heads.

[trophyhunt]

This isn’t or shouldn’t be about jealousy or equal distribution to different user groups. . It should be about conservation. This should be about whether or not the herd can sustain 5 mature rams coming out of that unit in one year. If the tribe wants equal distribution, this may mean the state tag # gets dropped to one assuming the tribe would drop their number to one as well.  That is what this “should” be about if you ask me. Although most of us will never get to hunt those sheep, that is a world class Cali sheep hunt where the world record cali Ram was taken and hopefully it’s not about to be ruined.

[shallowforks]

your right, WE didn't personally create our own situation, but we did inherit it, just as the natives have inherited their hunting rights. I too believe in equal opportunity for all of us, and I agree that times and needs have changed. But I just wont buy into the idea that we will never be able to work together on this. There IS a way. There is ALWAYS a way. This IS about conservation. if two user groups want to properly conserve a shared resource its going to take a good relationship between the two in order to achieve that. Conservation STARTS with the working relationship between all users

[grundy53]

your right, WE didn't personally create our own situation, but we did inherit it, just as the natives have inherited their hunting rights. I too believe in equal opportunity for all of us, and I agree that times and needs have changed. But I just wont buy into the idea that we will never be able to work together on this. There IS a way. There is ALWAYS a way. This IS about conservation. if two user groups want to properly conserve a shared resource its going to take a good relationship between the two in order to achieve that. Conservation STARTS with the working relationship between all users

Honestly, I don't see us ever working together when it comes to big game. Because frankly they don't have to.

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[baker5150]

your right, WE didn't personally create our own situation, but we did inherit it, just as the natives have inherited their hunting rights. I too believe in equal opportunity for all of us, and I agree that times and needs have changed. But I just wont buy into the idea that we will never be able to work together on this. There IS a way. There is ALWAYS a way. This IS about conservation. if two user groups want to properly conserve a shared resource its going to take a good relationship between the two in order to achieve that. Conservation STARTS with the working relationship between all users

It's difficult to come together when one side is benefitting more than the other.  They have little to gain and much to lose.

If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't budge one bit.

[idahohuntr]

On the discussion of what legal limits there are to Tribal harvest, I am only aware of two:

First, while the State owns the wildlife within their borders, the only substantive measure or control the state has over harvest of wildlife in off reservation treaty hunting areas is if there is a "conservation concern".  This gets a little murky, but if there is genuine concern about the species, possibly the state could limit harvest in a non-discriminatory manner (meaning they don't just target tribal harvest, but shut it down for everyone).  The bar for "conservation concern" is high...it can't be "we want a world class ram hunt"...it has to be that continued hunting will cause an extinction or great harm to the species.  For example, if the Yakamas issued 300 sheep tags - and the plan was to slaughter bighorns to the point the species would be imperiled, the State could probably step in and restrain such harvest.  If the Yakamas issue 6 or 8 tags for Swakane each year - changing the age class of rams, but not harming the overall existence of the species...that state has no power to step in.  Most Tribes have an interest in conserving species so it is unlikely they would ever sanction such unregulated harvest.  However, the Tribe harvesting several rams or a bunch of trophy bucks and bulls that reduces the age class and frustrates trophy hunters is not a conservation concern as defined by the court rulings I'm aware of. 

The more indirect control the state has IMO is to fight fire with fire...if the State is managing an area for trophies at the request of its citizens - and this makes it an attractive area for Tribal harvest...I don't see why the state doesn't stand up and say, "look - if you don't limit Tribal harvest to x tags, were just going to make this a general season hunt and there will be 5,000 hunters here hammering the woods all season".  Again, whatever the state proposed would still have to be in accordance with conserving the species, but frankly we could kill off a ton of elk and deer and while hunting would be absolutely dismal - the species would not be threatened with extinction. 

The second limit...The United States is also a sovereign nation.  Congress can abrogate treaty rights or modify treaties at any time.  If Tribal hunting became such an issue that there was overwhelming public outcry...treaties could be modified...but I would argue that is extremely unlikely to happen...however, it is a bit of a check on completely unrestrained harvest by Tribes.  This is why in my view many Tribes do closely monitor and regulate harvest where there is substantial public interest (e.g., Yellowstone bison hunts). 

   

[trophyhunt]

I’ve said it before, and Idahohuntr you have a couple good points on your last post. Wdfw should cut off its nose, open up all the units for any weapon over the counter, screw it, kill everything!  Maybe then we can get to some agreement, just start over with an even playing field!  Baker and Grundy are 100% correct, why would anyone bargain when they hold all the cards, no incentive to.

[bobcat]

And I've said this before, but what we need to do is to adopt the Yakama tribe's hunting regulations for us, in the areas that they hunt. Problem solved.

No spike only elk season, no 3 point minimum on deer, no limits on number of animals harvested per hunter, and a year around season for bucks/bulls.

[theleo]

Good for them. The state should match their tag limits and management on shared lands and focus on recovery and trophy opportunity of game species on land where management policies can not be ignored by a minority group.   

Sure it may be seen as a greedy and self centered point of view, but I don't support birth rites. Putting public funding to support hunting and recovery in an area where a minority has special rites above anyone else, is little more than a form of social welfare. I support my money going going to areas where everyone has equal opportunity. To say I do not care about the history or culture of the tribes may be insensitive but it's far from any kind of racism. I acknowledge the treaties exist and the tribes can exercise their rites as they see fit under those treaties. At this time though, I see no reason to support the tribes on anything that is not coordinated with WDFW, hand in hand, for equal opportunity for all citizens of this state.