Yakama Nation Sheep Tags

[Time Immemorial 1855]

There it is indeed. Again, when this state decides it has another government to deal with and treats it as such and not the ugly step child then maybe they will get better treatment.

Treat others how you want to be treated, guess the State never heard of that.

Completely agree...I put most blame on the state for less than desirable cooperation.  I've personally witnessed the condescension from wdfw towards tribes on hunting issues...their ignorance is astounding.

This hysteria over 2 additional sheep tags seems ridiculous.  Is harvesting 2 more rams going to imperil the herd?  Combined with the state tags how many rams are we talking per year? It seems more like people are whining that the swakane wont be a trophy unit like it has been...not that the sheep will be on the brink of extinction.

Exactly, thank you sir

[grundy53]

Let's see a show of hands of how many would just let the state show up and do what they want, when they want and how they want on your property.

No questions, warnings or explanation.

First of all. No one is suggesting that. Not even close. So quit building straw men. Second of all. It's not your property. It's ceded land not the reservation.

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You are misinformed

No, I'm not.

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[NOCK NOCK]

More than 5 rams are die each year in there between predators, old age, and vehicles.

How in the hell do you know this?

I drive that hwy 3 times a day, for the last several years, have only ever seen 2 sheep hit by vehicles, both ewes. FWIW

[MtnMuley]

More than 5 rams are die each year in there between predators, old age, and vehicles.

How in the hell do you know this?

I drive that hwy 3 times a day, for the last several years, have only ever seen 2 sheep hit by vehicles, both ewes. FWIW

The thousands of dollars the Wenatchee Sportsmans Association and others donated towards the 97A fence project to save the sheep vs car accidents years ago has been a godsend for those sheep.

[Slamadoo]

Why would WDFW collaborate on conservation decisions with a group that makes harvest decisions based on political retribution and flexing "treaty" rights? I frankly hope that they wouldn't.

[huntnphool]

More than 5 rams are die each year in there between predators, old age, and vehicles.

How in the hell do you know this?

I drive that hwy 3 times a day, for the last several years, have only ever seen 2 sheep hit by vehicles, both ewes. FWIW

The tens of thousands of dollars the Wenatchee Sportsmans Association and others donated towards the 97A fence project to save the sheep vs car accidents years ago has been a godsend for those sheep.

 +1

[Tbar]

There it is indeed. Again, when this state decides it has another government to deal with and treats it as such and not the ugly step child then maybe they will get better treatment.

Treat others how you want to be treated, guess the State never heard of that.

Completely agree...I put most blame on the state for less than desirable cooperation.  I've personally witnessed the condescension from wdfw towards tribes on hunting issues...their ignorance is astounding.

This hysteria over 2 additional sheep tags seems ridiculous.  Is harvesting 2 more rams going to imperil the herd?  Combined with the state tags how many rams are we talking per year? It seems more like people are whining that the swakane wont be a trophy unit like it has been...not that the sheep will be on the brink of extinction.

How many sheep are in the Swakane unit?

How many rams can the herd handle losing per year?

You seem to think you know what you're talking about. Throw down the data that makes you believe the herd can handle 5 tags and 5 rams killed annually for the next few years.

Rather than continuing to say what you think the angle is that everyone else is working, lets hear your data that makes you believe there is nothing to worry about. Show us that the herd will be fine.

The 2017 game report says 150-160 sheep in Swakane.  Population has doubled from 10 years ago. 

Looking at population levels and harvest in other units, yes it would seem 5 rams per year under current conditions is very sustainable.

The game report noted that they have had conservative harvest in part because these sheep are easily accessible for viewing by the public, and viewing large rams is desirable to the public.

Now, with those facts, can we all agree these two tags are not going to harm the population?  And that the whining is about a lower age class ram and fewer pictures to take?  Both of which pale in comparison to upholding a treaty.

No.

I love it! You are disagreeing/ commenting based off of what? Are you being puppeted by special interest? Or is sheep manager one of your hobbies?  Unbelievable!

[jackelope]

There it is indeed. Again, when this state decides it has another government to deal with and treats it as such and not the ugly step child then maybe they will get better treatment.

Treat others how you want to be treated, guess the State never heard of that.

Completely agree...I put most blame on the state for less than desirable cooperation.  I've personally witnessed the condescension from wdfw towards tribes on hunting issues...their ignorance is astounding.

This hysteria over 2 additional sheep tags seems ridiculous.  Is harvesting 2 more rams going to imperil the herd?  Combined with the state tags how many rams are we talking per year? It seems more like people are whining that the swakane wont be a trophy unit like it has been...not that the sheep will be on the brink of extinction.

How many sheep are in the Swakane unit?

How many rams can the herd handle losing per year?

You seem to think you know what you're talking about. Throw down the data that makes you believe the herd can handle 5 tags and 5 rams killed annually for the next few years.

Rather than continuing to say what you think the angle is that everyone else is working, lets hear your data that makes you believe there is nothing to worry about. Show us that the herd will be fine.

The 2017 game report says 150-160 sheep in Swakane.  Population has doubled from 10 years ago. 

Looking at population levels and harvest in other units, yes it would seem 5 rams per year under current conditions is very sustainable.

The game report noted that they have had conservative harvest in part because these sheep are easily accessible for viewing by the public, and viewing large rams is desirable to the public.

Now, with those facts, can we all agree these two tags are not going to harm the population?  And that the whining is about a lower age class ram and fewer pictures to take?  Both of which pale in comparison to upholding a treaty.

No.

I love it! You are disagreeing/ commenting based off of what? Are you being puppeted by special interest? Or is sheep manager one of your hobbies?  Unbelievable!

This goes both ways.  I don't belong to any of the wild sheep org's. Just a guy asking questions. I'm truly interested in learning.

What's interesting is that none of you guys who have seemingly opposing views from me can't seem to answer any of my questions. Only criticize them.

[Tbar]

There it is indeed. Again, when this state decides it has another government to deal with and treats it as such and not the ugly step child then maybe they will get better treatment.

Treat others how you want to be treated, guess the State never heard of that.

Completely agree...I put most blame on the state for less than desirable cooperation.  I've personally witnessed the condescension from wdfw towards tribes on hunting issues...their ignorance is astounding.

This hysteria over 2 additional sheep tags seems ridiculous.  Is harvesting 2 more rams going to imperil the herd?  Combined with the state tags how many rams are we talking per year? It seems more like people are whining that the swakane wont be a trophy unit like it has been...not that the sheep will be on the brink of extinction.

How many sheep are in the Swakane unit?

How many rams can the herd handle losing per year?

You seem to think you know what you're talking about. Throw down the data that makes you believe the herd can handle 5 tags and 5 rams killed annually for the next few years.

Rather than continuing to say what you think the angle is that everyone else is working, lets hear your data that makes you believe there is nothing to worry about. Show us that the herd will be fine.

The 2017 game report says 150-160 sheep in Swakane.  Population has doubled from 10 years ago. 

Looking at population levels and harvest in other units, yes it would seem 5 rams per year under current conditions is very sustainable.

The game report noted that they have had conservative harvest in part because these sheep are easily accessible for viewing by the public, and viewing large rams is desirable to the public.

Now, with those facts, can we all agree these two tags are not going to harm the population?  And that the whining is about a lower age class ram and fewer pictures to take?  Both of which pale in comparison to upholding a treaty.

No.

I love it! You are disagreeing/ commenting based off of what? Are you being puppeted by special interest? Or is sheep manager one of your hobbies?  Unbelievable!

This goes both ways.  I don't belong to any of the wild sheep org's. Just a guy asking questions. I'm truly interested in learning.

There has been some more input than questions.  Quite a bit more. 

[jackelope]

There it is indeed. Again, when this state decides it has another government to deal with and treats it as such and not the ugly step child then maybe they will get better treatment.

Treat others how you want to be treated, guess the State never heard of that.

Completely agree...I put most blame on the state for less than desirable cooperation.  I've personally witnessed the condescension from wdfw towards tribes on hunting issues...their ignorance is astounding.

This hysteria over 2 additional sheep tags seems ridiculous.  Is harvesting 2 more rams going to imperil the herd?  Combined with the state tags how many rams are we talking per year? It seems more like people are whining that the swakane wont be a trophy unit like it has been...not that the sheep will be on the brink of extinction.

How many sheep are in the Swakane unit?

How many rams can the herd handle losing per year?

You seem to think you know what you're talking about. Throw down the data that makes you believe the herd can handle 5 tags and 5 rams killed annually for the next few years.

Rather than continuing to say what you think the angle is that everyone else is working, lets hear your data that makes you believe there is nothing to worry about. Show us that the herd will be fine.

The 2017 game report says 150-160 sheep in Swakane.  Population has doubled from 10 years ago. 

Looking at population levels and harvest in other units, yes it would seem 5 rams per year under current conditions is very sustainable.

The game report noted that they have had conservative harvest in part because these sheep are easily accessible for viewing by the public, and viewing large rams is desirable to the public.

Now, with those facts, can we all agree these two tags are not going to harm the population?  And that the whining is about a lower age class ram and fewer pictures to take?  Both of which pale in comparison to upholding a treaty.

No.

I love it! You are disagreeing/ commenting based off of what? Are you being puppeted by special interest? Or is sheep manager one of your hobbies?  Unbelievable!

This goes both ways.  I don't belong to any of the wild sheep org's. Just a guy asking questions. I'm truly interested in learning.

There has been some more input than questions.  Quite a bit more. 

It would be neat if idahohntr answered the specific question I posted that you're currently riding me about. The "it would seem" stuff doesn't really fly. Especially with all the flack he's handing out.

[Tbar]

You want to know what is sustainable harvest on Swakane? Or the fiscal impact if a certain ram is harvested (possibly by Yakama).

[jackelope]

You want to know what is sustainable harvest on Swakane? Or the fiscal impact if a certain ram is harvested (possibly by Yakama).

As I've mentioned multiple times in this thread and elsewhere... I couldn't care less about an auction hunt. I really have no idea why you seem to constantly feel the need to give me crap about that. I've never even bought a raffle ticket in my life, nevermind do I give a hoot about auction permits. Sometimes I feel like you think I'm someone I am not.

I'm genuinely curious what wildlife managers would think is a reasonable ram harvest in the Swakane, since we're talking about that unit. If there is 150-160 sheep in there, how many are rams and what's a good ram/ewe ratio to maintain a healthy herd. Everyone seems to have an opinion yet nobody has scientific info...me included.

[idahohuntr]

There it is indeed. Again, when this state decides it has another government to deal with and treats it as such and not the ugly step child then maybe they will get better treatment.

Treat others how you want to be treated, guess the State never heard of that.

Completely agree...I put most blame on the state for less than desirable cooperation.  I've personally witnessed the condescension from wdfw towards tribes on hunting issues...their ignorance is astounding.

This hysteria over 2 additional sheep tags seems ridiculous.  Is harvesting 2 more rams going to imperil the herd?  Combined with the state tags how many rams are we talking per year? It seems more like people are whining that the swakane wont be a trophy unit like it has been...not that the sheep will be on the brink of extinction.

How many sheep are in the Swakane unit?

How many rams can the herd handle losing per year?

You seem to think you know what you're talking about. Throw down the data that makes you believe the herd can handle 5 tags and 5 rams killed annually for the next few years.

Rather than continuing to say what you think the angle is that everyone else is working, lets hear your data that makes you believe there is nothing to worry about. Show us that the herd will be fine.

The 2017 game report says 150-160 sheep in Swakane.  Population has doubled from 10 years ago. 

Looking at population levels and harvest in other units, yes it would seem 5 rams per year under current conditions is very sustainable.

The game report noted that they have had conservative harvest in part because these sheep are easily accessible for viewing by the public, and viewing large rams is desirable to the public.

Now, with those facts, can we all agree these two tags are not going to harm the population?  And that the whining is about a lower age class ram and fewer pictures to take?  Both of which pale in comparison to upholding a treaty.

No.

I love it! You are disagreeing/ commenting based off of what? Are you being puppeted by special interest? Or is sheep manager one of your hobbies?  Unbelievable!

This goes both ways.  I don't belong to any of the wild sheep org's. Just a guy asking questions. I'm truly interested in learning.

There has been some more input than questions.  Quite a bit more. 

It would be neat if idahohntr answered the specific question I posted that you're currently riding me about. The "it would seem" stuff doesn't really fly. Especially with all the flack he's handing out.

I'm not a sheep bio and I'm not the one crying wolf.  I provided some basic numbers...its not up to me to justify your hysteria.  Tell us what about 5 vs 3 permits is a problem in your view.  In a herd of 150, I don't see 5 rams as a population concern.  Particularly given wdfw acknowledges conservative harvest management for viewing opportunity in the swakane.  Combine that with the fact Yakamas have bios too and know the state permit levels...and I simply fail to see a herd level concern, so if you want to be credible on this topic provide some supporting evidence...I've laid out plenty on why I think it's a non issue.

[Rainier10]

First bit of facts that I have dug up for your reading pleasure, interpret however you wish.

In 1999, the first ram permit was offered for the Swakane herd, followed by one permit per year
from 2000-2008. The only additional Swakane harvest was by the 2002 auction tag winner (Table
4). Currently, the bighorn season in the Swakane runs September 15-October 10. All hunters have
been successful at killing a mature ram (>3/4 curl). No bighorn permit was offered in the Swakane
in 2009 due to the high number of vehicle collision mortalities along SR 97A in 2008. Highway
mortalities were effectively stopped with the construction of a wildlife fence along SR 97A. A
drawing permit for the harvest of one bighorn ram was reinstated for the 2010 hunting season. The
ram harvested in 2010 is the new Washington State record and SCI World record California
Bighorn Sheep.

[jackelope]

There it is indeed. Again, when this state decides it has another government to deal with and treats it as such and not the ugly step child then maybe they will get better treatment.

Treat others how you want to be treated, guess the State never heard of that.

Completely agree...I put most blame on the state for less than desirable cooperation.  I've personally witnessed the condescension from wdfw towards tribes on hunting issues...their ignorance is astounding.

This hysteria over 2 additional sheep tags seems ridiculous.  Is harvesting 2 more rams going to imperil the herd?  Combined with the state tags how many rams are we talking per year? It seems more like people are whining that the swakane wont be a trophy unit like it has been...not that the sheep will be on the brink of extinction.

How many sheep are in the Swakane unit?

How many rams can the herd handle losing per year?

You seem to think you know what you're talking about. Throw down the data that makes you believe the herd can handle 5 tags and 5 rams killed annually for the next few years.

Rather than continuing to say what you think the angle is that everyone else is working, lets hear your data that makes you believe there is nothing to worry about. Show us that the herd will be fine.

The 2017 game report says 150-160 sheep in Swakane.  Population has doubled from 10 years ago. 

Looking at population levels and harvest in other units, yes it would seem 5 rams per year under current conditions is very sustainable.

The game report noted that they have had conservative harvest in part because these sheep are easily accessible for viewing by the public, and viewing large rams is desirable to the public.

Now, with those facts, can we all agree these two tags are not going to harm the population?  And that the whining is about a lower age class ram and fewer pictures to take?  Both of which pale in comparison to upholding a treaty.

No.

I love it! You are disagreeing/ commenting based off of what? Are you being puppeted by special interest? Or is sheep manager one of your hobbies?  Unbelievable!

This goes both ways.  I don't belong to any of the wild sheep org's. Just a guy asking questions. I'm truly interested in learning.

There has been some more input than questions.  Quite a bit more. 

It would be neat if idahohntr answered the specific question I posted that you're currently riding me about. The "it would seem" stuff doesn't really fly. Especially with all the flack he's handing out.

I'm not a sheep bio and I'm not the one crying wolf.  I provided some basic numbers...its not up to me to justify your hysteria.  Tell us what about 5 vs 3 permits is a problem in your view.  In a herd of 150, I don't see 5 rams as a population concern.  Particularly given wdfw acknowledges conservative harvest management for viewing opportunity in the swakane.  Combine that with the fact Yakamas have bios too and know the state permit levels...and I simply fail to see a herd level concern, so if you want to be credible on this topic provide some supporting evidence...I've laid out plenty on why I think it's a non issue.

I'm asking questions. Not crying wolf. So I'm not qualified to know. You're not qualified to know. The WDFW sheep bio's weren't involved and it doesn't seem like the Yakama tribal biologists were involved but I don't know.