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Author Topic: blacktail deer pre-rut  (Read 56579 times)

Offline fishnfur

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #135 on: October 24, 2018, 04:47:17 PM »
I found this on Red Alder leaves:  https://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/pnw_rp246.pdf
Copy and paste created a lot of typos, but it is still understandable: ( Higher fats and carbs, good protein than during the growing season.  Very good pre-winter food source.)

"Chemical Composition and Deer Browsing of Red Alder Foliage"

Discussion and Conclusions

Results show that in June when
utilization by deer was minimal,
red alder leaves contained adequate
levels of minerals, available carbohydrates,
protein, and fats to satisfy
the nutritional needs of herbivores,
including deer (Maynard 1951) . The
leaves were also succulent, moderately
acidic, had enough roughage as shawn
by the contents of fiber and lignin,
and contained nontoxic levels of
nitrates as well as fatty acids which
are usually found in palatable plants.
The total phenols in the leaves,
however, were quite high; they anounted
to over 10 percent of the dry natter
and greatly exceeded levels found in
plants bravsed by black-tailed deer
in winter (Radwan and Crouch 1974) .
Comparison of the June and
Septerrber leaves indicated many variations
in most chemical constituents.
Thus, as leaves grew older and becane
more preferred by deer in Septenber,
moisture, acidity, protein, and phenols
had decreased, while available carbohydrates
and fats were increased.
Fatty acids also changed in their
conposition during the sane period of
tine. Cbviousl y, it is impossible to
state which change or conbination of
changes were actually responsible for
the increased preference or the nechanism
by which any of these factors were
operating. One nay speculate, havever,
that changes in fats and phenols were
the irr[x::>rtant factors. That changes
in these two leaf constituents were
much greater than those shawn by renaining
constituents tends to support
this speculation. Crude fat also is
recognized as a high energy food source
for animals, and associations of high
fat contents in forages with high
preferenoe by sone animals have b
reported (Hardison et al. 1954, Iouw
et ale 1967) . Phenols, on the other
hand, have been generally considered
as defense conpounds which protect
plants from their natural enemies,
including herbivorǜs (Levin 1971) .
Furthernore, tannins, which are
estimated here as total phenols,
have been shawn to reduce palatability
and digestibility of some
plants in ruminants (Wilkins et ale
1953, Donnelly and Anthony 1973) ;
and their great decline in Septerrber
could very well account for the increased
utilization of the leaves in
the fall.
Factors affecting animal preferences
for plants are extrerrely varied
and conplex. Accordingly, we recognize
that chemical constituents other than
those reported here or nonchemical
factors such as differences in availability
of preferred food nay have
influenced deer preference.
“When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.”  - Will Rogers

Offline RadSav

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #136 on: October 24, 2018, 05:13:05 PM »
One of our favorite bad weather walks is OLD skid roads with lots of more mature alders on each side.  Low and slow until we see a doe feeding on the leaves.  Then we just sit and watch.  If after 15 minutes if she doesn't kicker her tail to the side or walk squatted we might move on and try to find another.  But if she is showing those signs we'll stay on her till dark.  I've probably seen more does mounted on skid roads than I have in alder groves and big timber combined.

If you can find these old skids next to reprod even better.  Wife's largest two bucks we watched does run out of the alder to a flat spot in the reprod.  In both cases there were bucks on them within ten minutes.  I don't see the bucks cruising the skid roads, but rather cruising trails just off them.  In these situations you need to know your wind.  Thermals going down spend more time watching/glassing below the alders.  Thermals rising spend more time glassing and watching above the alder.

We've actually seen bucks watch a doe feed until she is even with a good flat breeding spot.  He then rushes in and pushes her to the flat.  Often happens so fast you can't get a good shot.  So, if we can, we try to setup in a position when watching these does where we can see into a flat and make that shot from our setup position.  Sometimes that's looking into the timber. Sometimes it's looking into the reprod.  And sometimes in steep country that's watching straight down the skid road. 

In any case from here on out till the end of the season never just glass a doe and say, "Oh, it's just a doe" and move on.  Stop, watch, observe and prepare!  Might happen on the first doe you see, might be the 12th doe you see.  But eventually it's going to happen if you remain diligent and don't get into a rush to move on.  And never ignore a running doe ever, never ever!!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 05:30:40 PM by RadSav »
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Offline grundy53

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #137 on: October 24, 2018, 05:38:14 PM »
Great advice RAD!

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Offline hawks33

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #138 on: October 24, 2018, 06:18:07 PM »
Some advice for BT hunting my grandpa taught me that paid off with two bucks, one being my biggest to date. When you're walking deer trails, stop every ten steps and listen and look behind you. I walked by a 5x5 that was bedded 10' off the trail, when I stopped and looked behind me he lifted his head to look and see if I'd passed. Both times were late season modern.  Walk very slow

Offline fishnfur

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #139 on: October 24, 2018, 06:43:53 PM »
Thanks for giving up the good stuff RadSav.  There's a bunch of new hunters on the board looking for direction.  Passing on your years of experience here is a great recruiting tool that will help keep our numbers strong.
“When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.”  - Will Rogers

Offline deerhunter_98520

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #140 on: October 24, 2018, 07:10:41 PM »
 :tup: good advice right there
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Offline RadSav

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #141 on: October 25, 2018, 08:37:59 PM »
Weather made a difference.  One good buck 9 minutes before legal.  Two mid-day the wife passed on.  One real good buck riding a doe out into the road while we were moving from spot to spot.  No chance for a shot.  I'd say it's on!
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Offline Turner89

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #142 on: October 25, 2018, 09:34:29 PM »
Ethan which buck would that be?
My 2011 buck
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Offline lokidog

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #143 on: October 25, 2018, 11:11:13 PM »
It's on here. I saw three does today and each one had a buck either lurking nearby or hot on her tail.

Offline fishnfur

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #144 on: October 25, 2018, 11:45:56 PM »
Dead out in Willipa Hills.  Lots of fresh elk and deer rubs.
“When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.”  - Will Rogers

Offline PolarBear

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #145 on: October 26, 2018, 04:02:29 AM »
I came within 6" of hitting a huuuuge 3 point on my way to work yesterday.  He was standing square in the middle of my lane while tending a doe on the fog line.  He wouldn't move for anything. 

Offline Skyvalhunter

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #146 on: October 26, 2018, 05:18:52 AM »
You probably would do the same if you were in the middle of doing your business!! :chuckle:
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Offline deerhunter_98520

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #147 on: October 26, 2018, 06:10:31 AM »
Light switch was flipped yesterday....it's starting...now till end of season should be good
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Offline fishngamereaper

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #148 on: October 26, 2018, 06:27:58 AM »
Still real slow in my neck of the woods. Which sucks cause the kid has an any deer tag and hes getting pretty bummed. Back when I was a kid you used to see 1-2 deer for every mile, now it seems like its 1 deer for every 8 miles. Not what it used to be.

Offline Martinhunter

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Re: blacktail deer pre-rut
« Reply #149 on: October 26, 2018, 06:50:40 AM »
One of our favorite bad weather walks is OLD skid roads with lots of more mature alders on each side.  Low and slow until we see a doe feeding on the leaves.  Then we just sit and watch.  If after 15 minutes if she doesn't kicker her tail to the side or walk squatted we might move on and try to find another.  But if she is showing those signs we'll stay on her till dark.  I've probably seen more does mounted on skid roads than I have in alder groves and big timber combined.

If you can find these old skids next to reprod even better.  Wife's largest two bucks we watched does run out of the alder to a flat spot in the reprod.  In both cases there were bucks on them within ten minutes.  I don't see the bucks cruising the skid roads, but rather cruising trails just off them.  In these situations you need to know your wind.  Thermals going down spend more time watching/glassing below the alders.  Thermals rising spend more time glassing and watching above the alder.

We've actually seen bucks watch a doe feed until she is even with a good flat breeding spot.  He then rushes in and pushes her to the flat.  Often happens so fast you can't get a good shot.  So, if we can, we try to setup in a position when watching these does where we can see into a flat and make that shot from our setup position.  Sometimes that's looking into the timber. Sometimes it's looking into the reprod.  And sometimes in steep country that's watching straight down the skid road. 

In any case from here on out till the end of the season never just glass a doe and say, "Oh, it's just a doe" and move on.  Stop, watch, observe and prepare!  Might happen on the first doe you see, might be the 12th doe you see.  But eventually it's going to happen if you remain diligent and don't get into a rush to move on.  And never ignore a running doe ever, never ever!!
I agree 100%!!
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