22 magnum semi auto for concealed carry????

[Dan-o]

My wife has taken up shooting now that we've been married 36 years.........

She enjoys shooting some of my pistols but she'd really enjoy something with less kick.

She got her CPL.

I was thinking of a 22 Magnum for her CC.

Looking for input:
1.  Good CC sized 22 Magnum semi autos?
2.  Real reasons not to go with 22 Magnum for her CC, if she's much more comfortable with it and will shootiti a lot more?   

Thanks,

Dan

[jrebel]

Not sure of the semi auto....but the ruger lcr in .22 mag is a great gun.  I wouldn't want to be shot with a .22 mag....so I say it is better than nothing.  I sometimes carry my lcr in .22 mag just because how light it is.   

[JimmyHoffa]

22 mag really generates its power from going through a rifle length barrel.
If you are going with 22 mag, KelTec makes the PMR 30 which holds 30 rds.

Also, the FN 5-7 is a light weight, low-recoiling handgun.  It is also quite a bit more powerful than the 22 mag.

[h2ofowlr]

I have a S&W .22 mag revolver.  I used to carry it all the time with me when hunting. Great penetration for a handgun.  I now carry my KelTek .22 mag.  30 round mags of .22 mag.  Only negative with an auto in .22 mag is if not really clean and good ammo, those long cases can stick or hang up.

[Dan-o]

Thanks all.

I am a little excited at the possibility of getting her something she will shoot a lot.

[b23]

I have the KelTec PMR30 and it's a really fun little gun to shoot.  They have very little recoil, a good trigger, are easy to rack the slide, and it shoots well.  Even with a full mag they aren't particularly heavy but I'm not sure how concealable they would be and the FN 5.7 is even a bit larger yet.  They make great back pack guns but I'm not sure how well you'd like one as a CCW.

My wife carries a Ruger LCR 38spl and its pretty manageable for her to shoot and she's no particular fan of recoil.

A couple other guns your wife may enjoy shooting, is the M&P Shield 380 EZ or the M&P Shield 9mm.

[dontgetcrabs]

Check out the 22 TCM also.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/786314452

[Dan-o]

I have the KelTec PMR30 and it's a really fun little gun to shoot.  They have very little recoil, a good trigger, are easy to rack the slide, and it shoots well.  Even with a full mag they aren't particularly heavy but I'm not sure how concealable they would be and the FN 5.7 is even a bit larger yet.  They make great back pack guns but I'm not sure how well you'd like one as a CCW.

My wife carries a Ruger LCR 38spl and its pretty manageable for her to shoot and she's no particular fan of recoil.

A couple other guns your wife may enjoy shooting, is the M&P Shield 380 EZ or the M&P Shield 9mm.

The KelTec PMR30 looks like a fun pistol, but as you said.... too big for CC.

[Dan-o]

I just recently bought my wife a Walther PK380.  Its super soft shooting and the action is manageable with a weaker grip (arthritis).  My wife really liked it.

Thanks for the info.

I'll check it out.

[PlateauNDN]

Are you or her set on a .22? I bought my wife a bodyguard .380 and she loves it. I bought a ruger lcp .380 to carry part time and I bought two (2) 10 round mags and i like it. Just a thought.

[Dan-o]

Check out the 22 TCM also.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/786314452

That's a good looking pistol, but I'm hoping to find a CC sized semi that she likes.

It might be the white unicorn of pistols?

[Dan-o]

Are you or her set on a .22? I bought my wife a bodyguard .380 and she loves it. I bought a ruger lcp .380 to carry part time and I bought two (2) 10 round mags and i like it. Just a thought.

I'm not set on 22 Magnum......   I just really want something she'll enjoy shooting a lot.

I will check out the Bodyguard.   She did not like the Ruger LCP (too small, snappy).

I carry a Ruger LC9S, and she lies that better than the LCR.

[CP]

Most 22 Mag semi-autos are jammers.  The long case does not lend itself well to semi-auto function.  I wouldn’t rely on one for personal defense.

[CaNINE]

While I wouldn’t want to be shot by one the 22mag isn’t a reliable threat stopper. With low recoil in mind when life and limb is on the line is  look hard at a 38 special revolver. Get one in 22 for practice.

[b23]

One of the problems for a lot of shooters and the small revolvers is they have such a small grip they don't feel overly secure holding on to them.  A small grip and something that has recoil, like a 357 or 38spl+P, and it just compounds the problem.

Pachmayr has a new grip they came out with awhile back called the Guardian Grip and I think it will really help with giving a much more secure feel in the hand, yet still retain a small compact profile.  I ordered one for my wife's Ruger LCR so it'll be interesting to see if they function as advertised.  I bought mine from Midsouth Shooters Supply which was a $15 savings versus buying direct.

https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands/pachmayr/handgun-grips/revolver-grips/guardian-griptm.html

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0001002607/guardian-grip-ruger-lcr

[Fl0und3rz]

Check out the Beretta Bobcat (.22 LR and .25 ACP) and the Tomcat (.32 ACP).

I had the Tomcat and I liked it a lot, except for having to stock an additional caliber.  No malfunctions in over 100+ rounds.

The wife was a bit off put by the muzzle blast, but she is a very new shooter.  It is a bit snappy in recoil, but I imagine the Bobcat would be a bit less.  Otherwise, none are the best SD calibers, and I would personally avoid a rimfire, if I was looking to carry it for SD.

[bustedoldman]

Depending on your budget you can have almost any handgun hydra-ported, several of the manufacturers already offer ported handguns, also there are aftermarket ported barrels/slides if kickback/muzzle rise are a concern. I see no issues with a .22 mag, as stated prior some use .22LR and something is better than nothing!

[Bofire]

Glock 42 .380
Carl

[DOUBLELUNG]

I recommend trying a Sig P238.  Very concealable and far more comfortable in hand than the LCP.  I have both, I enjoy the convenience of the LCP and have enjoyed learning to shoot it - but if I was introducing someone to a compact .380 who isn't comfortable with snappy recoil, I'd definitely start them with the P238.

[coop2424]

I recommend trying a Sig P238.  Very concealable and far more comfortable in hand than the LCP.  I have both, I enjoy the convenience of the LCP and have enjoyed learning to shoot it - but if I was introducing someone to a compact .380 who isn't comfortable with snappy recoil, I'd definitely start them with the P238.

P238 is an outstanding pistol and my wife loves shooting the one we have.  I have noticed myself grabbing it more so when carrying than I ever thought I would.

[b23]

I'm a big fan of most things Sig, but I don't know that a single action would be the way to go.

[huntnphool]

Also, the FN 5-7 is a light weight, low-recoiling handgun.  It is also quite a bit more powerful than the 22 mag.

+1

[Scheindogg]

Glock 42 .380
Carl

     

When I was first starting to shoot and was a terrible shot I tried out a Glock 42. That thing has next to no recoil, conceals very easily and can shoot really nice. Like I was I was new and terrible and I could do 3 consecutive shots to the head on a silhouette at 7 yards.

[ghosthunter]

Well I will buck the norm and suggest she take a peak at Bond Arms.

Yes two shots but fully custom. She could change , caliber , barrel lengths, grips and carry. Options.

For most women two shots is enough.

Most women want

Light weight
Easy use
Real safe
Lots of options.

The Bonds are ready to rock with two shots on demand and very safe .
With rebounding hammer and cross bar safety.

You get anything but if she won’t carry it every day it’s not use for self defense.


https://www.bondarms.com

[Axle]

I would take and recommend the 22DubyaMR over just about any round. Especially for a woman.
The PMR30 is a great gun too. Hornady makes a 45 grain round for pistols and it's called "critical defense" which works well in pistols.
There's really no other round I would recommend for fun or general personal defense. Shot placement is the key. The PMR30 offers 30 options from one magazine for shot placement. Those are good odds. And it's fun to shoot.

[magnanimous_j]

Before I set the missus up with a concealed carry piece, I'd make sure she REALLY wants to actually carry one. I understand the sentiment of "its better than nothing," but its not true. There are lots of things that are worse than nothing. If she isn't comfortable with the gun, nervous about recoil or simply doesn't have the mentality to kill another human being, her being armed could much worse than nothing.

A lot of guys are recommending the PMR30. Don't get me wrong, its a neat gun and I certainly am not volunteering to take a .22mag to the breadbasket, but its a totally unsuitable gun in this case. One, its 8" long.  Second, Look at it!  Its the ugliest thing to come out of Florida since Carrot Top. No woman wants to lug that thing around

I recommend a Bersa Thunder .380. Its small enough to conceal and the controls are easy to reach for smaller hands. But its big enough to handle confidently and keep the recoil tame. I've taken a couple women shooting for the first time and that's the second gun I put them on (after whatever .22lr auto the range has for rent). They have all liked it. Plus its kind of sexy. One of my wife's friends occasionally asks when we can go shoot "the James Bond gun" again.  For defense, the Hornady Critical Defense 90gr turns the pistol into a totally viable CC option for anybody, let alone recoil-timid, smaller statured shooters.

Frankly, I just don't think that there is a .22mag option that's suitable for concealed carry. The barrel's not long enough and rimfire autos are not reliable enough.

[ribka]

I would never start a beginner shooter with a semi auto and this is my experience teaching firearms instruction over 25 years to 100’s of people. Always start with the most simple firearm be it a single shot bolt action or a revolver. Srtart with a a 22 to develop fundamentals and safety.Then Get a five shot s&w revolver 38 spl. Use +p rounds to carry if the individual is mentally able to carry a firearm and thoroughly understands the rights and responsibilities of firearms ownership in Washington.

380 is inadequate . A 22 mag out of a short pistol barrel is not much better than. 22 lr.  Have a lot of people been killed with a 22 lr? Sure but much better options.I have PMr and ok pistol but not top 10 choice for concealed carry.

Bersa firearms are cheap poorly made in Argentina and notoriously unreliable like a Taurus made in Brazil Stick with a S&W or Ruger (not bad)revolver.  After a few years and a lot of practice a semi auto if desired. i love my Glock but I still carry a 5 shot in urban settings and so do many very experienced LEO friends.

[Scheindogg]

I would never start a beginner shooter with a semi auto and this is my experience teaching firearms instruction over 25 years to 100’s of people. Always start with the most simple firearm be it a single shot bolt action or a revolver. Srtart with a a 22 to develop fundamentals and safety.Then Get a five shot s&w revolver 38 spl. Use +p rounds to carry if the individual is mentally able to carry a firearm and thoroughly understands the rights and responsibilities of firearms ownership in Washington.

380 is inadequate . A 22 mag out of a short pistol barrel is not much better than. 22 lr.  Have a lot of people been killed with a 22 lr? Sure but much better options.I have PMr and ok pistol but not top 10 choice for concealed carry.

Bersa firearms are cheap poorly made in Argentina and notoriously unreliable like a Taurus made in Brazil Stick with a S&W or Ruger (not bad)revolver.  After a few years and a lot of practice a semi auto if desired. i love my Glock but I still carry a 5 shot in urban settings and so do many very experienced LEO friends.

Im just curious what makes you think 380 is inadequate?

I know a lot of people are of the bigger is better theory and I get that to some extent (and I realize you didn’t say that) but if accuracy and comfort play a huge role (they do) couldn’t the 380 be perfectly sufficient?
No it doesn’t penetrate in the gel tests as amazingly as 9mm, 45 etc but if you look into it there are several great options for CC in 380.
And if someone could shoot a 380 say twice as accurate as a 9mm or other caliber would that not make all the necessary difference?

Say they were able to get 4 shots off in a 380 all in the heart area or the other option would be only enough time for 3 shots in the upper body in general?

I’m not sure if I’m over thinking this and I’m not trying to call you out on anything, just trying to see if my logic is sound.





-note- I have a 9mm m&p shield but am considering a Glock 42 380 because I love how accurate and easy to shoot it is

[b23]

It's really hard to beat the small revolvers like Ruger LCR or S&W 442 for a CCW.  They're lightweight and compact.  There's no slide to rack or hammer to cock.  No safety to fool with.  Most of them are double action only so they have a heavy enough trigger to not have to worry about an accidental discharge.  They're really about as foolproof as you can get, just point and shoot.

[BKMFR]

Wife and I each have PMR 30's -love the ugly little guns, as far as self defense would be totally adequate, close range-plenty of shots, but after trying and buying many different makes and models for concealed carry she settled on a Kimber Micro in .380. She's comfortable and confident with it. I think a hammerless Lady Smith might have been my first choice for her in .38, but she likes everything about the Kimber, and if anyone thinks the 380 wont work, well I wouldn't want to stand in front of a confident shooter pointing one at close range at me, noise alone would make me run!

[jrebel]

I have seen many people in my career die or be critically injured at the hands of .380 and less.  .380, .22mag, .22lr, 9mm, 38/.357......will all be adequate. 

[CAMPMEAT]

Check out the 22 TCM also.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/786314452

I have that in the 1911 and their rifle. It's almost like a 357 SIG sorta. Great gun and better caliber.

[Hoythunter]

Another vote for the kel-tec, my wife loves shooting it and quite frankly so do I.  It’s my favorite handgun.  Talk about a fist of fury, I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near the business end of that thing with 30 rounds in the clip.  One is bound to find its mark 

[magnanimous_j]

Im just curious what makes you think 380 is inadequate?

I know a lot of people are of the bigger is better theory and I get that to some extent (and I realize you didn’t say that) but if accuracy and comfort play a huge role (they do) couldn’t the 380 be perfectly sufficient?
No it doesn’t penetrate in the gel tests as amazingly as 9mm, 45 etc but if you look into it there are several great options for CC in 380.
And if someone could shoot a 380 say twice as accurate as a 9mm or other caliber would that not make all the necessary difference?

Say they were able to get 4 shots off in a 380 all in the heart area or the other option would be only enough time for 3 shots in the upper body in general?

I’m not sure if I’m over thinking this and I’m not trying to call you out on anything, just trying to see if my logic is sound.





-note- I have a 9mm m&p shield but am considering a Glock 42 380 because I love how accurate and easy to shoot it is

Inadequate compared to the 9mm? Probably. Inadequate compared to the .38spl? Not at all.

Look at the ballistics information between the 2 calibers. When looking at the .38, make sure to make note of the test barrel length. A lot of times they are tested out of a 4" or longer barrel. A standard 2" snubbie barrel cuts the legs out from underneath the round quite a bit.

A standard .380acp out of a 3.3" barrel (very common for .380 pistols) is pushing higher FPS and higher kinetic energy than a .38spl out of a 2" barrel. +P loads bring up the numbers for both calibers somewhat, but they are both well within the same class in terms of power. Keep in mind though that you can only push the .38 so hard as the 2" barrel will always be a bottleneck in getting the most out of the round. One last difference is that the .38 (especially out of a snubbie) goes so slow that the hollowpoints expand far less reliably, to the point that some people don't even bother carrying hps in it. As future advances in bullet design roll out, the .380 may get more and more potent while the the .38 may be permanently stalled out where it is now.

So you've got the two rounds, which are as different as apples and a slightly different varietal of apple. So you can either get a snubbie revolver which only carries 5, has higher recoil and is harder to conceal; or the .380 which is easier to conceal, less recoil and carries up to 15 rounds.

There are several loads (for each caliber honestly) that easily pass the FBI's penetration test. I like the Critical Defense 90gr, because of how nicely they expand, but there are several loads that I would be confident carrying.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP

The big 'ole caveat to all this though, is that you already have a 9mm for carry. If you think you can stretch into that pistol and get confident enough with it, you will have a self defense pistol that significantly outperforms either of the other two calibers.

[satchel3006]

S&W M&P .380 EZ. Super easy to shoot, easy to rack and load the magazines the sights are decent as well. The .380 is perfectly adequate round for self defense. Don’t do a snub nose revolver or derringer they are hard to shoot, low capacity, the sights typically don’t shoot to point of aim (which will be frustrating when you/she practices) harder to reload under stress. Now before anyone says but semiauto are harder to shoot for a non shooter or new shooter there not it’s very simple it just takes some work with some dummy rounds and some trips to the range. If you want to carry a gun it requires practice it shouldn’t be just as simple as buying a gun and putting it in a holster. Find a class (super important regardless of what you choose)

[huntingfool7]

2.  Real reasons not to go with 22 Magnum for her CC, if she's much more comfortable with it and will shootiti a lot more?   

Rimfires are more likely to misfire than any centerfire round.

Semi auto rimfires that misfire can be much harder to clear than a standard semi auto.  The Bobcat is one of them.  If it doesn't go off, you need to stick a rod down the barrel to clear.

ETA- If I was serious about a CC .22 (or magnum), I'd buy a S&W Airweight.  If the ammo misfires, pull the trigger again for a fresh chamber and a second chance.

[huntnphool]

 If your wife would like to try my FiveseveN some time, send me a PM.

[jasnt]

I would think 25auto would be a better choice than 22mag. Feeds better and reloadable. Recoil is nill.   Best option is take her some where that she can handle and shoot many options, and let her decide.

[jrebel]

2.  Real reasons not to go with 22 Magnum for her CC, if she's much more comfortable with it and will shootiti a lot more?   

Rimfires are more likely to misfire than any centerfire round.

Semi auto rimfires that misfire can be much harder to clear than a standard semi auto.  The Bobcat is one of them.  If it doesn't go off, you need to stick a rod down the barrel to clear.

ETA- If I was serious about a CC .22 (or magnum), I'd buy a S&W Airweight.  If the ammo misfires, pull the trigger again for a fresh chamber and a second chance.

When is the last time you ever had a rimfire fail to fire???  Literally 10's of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of rounds and have yet to have a fail to fire / misfire.  I can't remember ever in my life having one fail.   Now....consistant, accurate, leathality....those can be debated, but not a misfire fail to fire.  I do agree that a revolver is the way to go if you want a .22 mag.  Easy, full proff, jam proof, and crazy fun to shoot.  Mine is also surprisingly accurate. 

[JimmyHoffa]

2.  Real reasons not to go with 22 Magnum for her CC, if she's much more comfortable with it and will shootiti a lot more?   

Rimfires are more likely to misfire than any centerfire round.

Semi auto rimfires that misfire can be much harder to clear than a standard semi auto.  The Bobcat is one of them.  If it doesn't go off, you need to stick a rod down the barrel to clear.

ETA- If I was serious about a CC .22 (or magnum), I'd buy a S&W Airweight.  If the ammo misfires, pull the trigger again for a fresh chamber and a second chance.

When is the last time you ever had a rimfire fail to fire???  Literally 10's of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of rounds and have yet to have a fail to fire / misfire.  I can't remember ever in my life having one fail.   Now....consistant, accurate, leathality....those can be debated, but not a misfire fail to fire.  I do agree that a revolver is the way to go if you want a .22 mag.  Easy, full proff, jam proof, and crazy fun to shoot.  Mine is also surprisingly accurate.

I've had a number or failures from .22LR, and it seems the rate goes up as the ammo ages.  Usually just the brick Rem/Winny stuff that ever gives a problem.  Don't think I've ever had an issue with the small boxes of CCI specialy stuff though.

[Dan-o]

Wow......   LOTS OF GOOD PERSPECTIVES to consider.

I wasn't clear at the onset, but the choice of weapon will definitely be hers.  I'm not looking to decide for her, but she's a pure shooting novice so I'll be helping along the way.

She definitely won't carry without practice and proficiency.   She got her CPL, and took a women's introductory class down in Kent (which she really enjoyed - enough to sign for the next class).

We went shooting one night last week (free rental night) and she shot 5 different pistols.   She doesn't enjoy the real small, snappy ones.

She's already arranged our next date night at the range, and wants to keep shooting, so that is good.

I just got back in town......   Lots of stuff to consider.

THANKS

[Rob]

Nice positive discussion on this thread!

I have played around with the KelTec PMR-30 and it is really a fun firearm.  Very light, high mag capacity, easy recoil and light slide to rack.  Only downside is the size.  All this was noted before - just consider this another thumbs up for the function and features of this firearm!

My wife went with the Sig P238.  This was after shooting handguns for several years at the range and carrying a 38 special revolver.  She originally went with the revolver due to the ease of cocking the hammer and low recoil - I am sure my bias towards revolvers had nothing to do with it either!!  She has very weak wrists and any recoil greater than a 38 special is painful.  Just the act of holding up a handgun for 30-45 min of shooting leaves her sore for a few days.  (Pro-tip: She was carrying a Taurus Model 85 38 Special so we picked up a Taurus Model 941SS2 in 22 Rimfire.  This way she had two nearly identical firearms and she could put 50 to 100 rounds of 22 down the range at minimal cost and physical impact of recoil to get trigger time, then put a few cylinders of 38 Special through the carry gun for practice and familiarity)

She also was unable to rack slides on any of my semi-autos including the Bersa Thunder discussed earlier (great gun - my first handgun actually!).  We spent lots of range time and she tried several firearms and then went to a gun store so she could try some more.  After working with the P238 she found the slide was super easy to rack and it fit her small hands well.  Also conceals well in her purse or on the body.  We picked it up and she has moved to this as her primary firearm.  It has been a good gun however it hates my reloads...  stovepipes frequently.  Factory ammo is not an issue.  At least it is giving her some practice clearing the gun!  The reloads are probably not sized well or too light of loads.

[huntingfool7]

2.  Real reasons not to go with 22 Magnum for her CC, if she's much more comfortable with it and will shootiti a lot more?   

Rimfires are more likely to misfire than any centerfire round.

Semi auto rimfires that misfire can be much harder to clear than a standard semi auto.  The Bobcat is one of them.  If it doesn't go off, you need to stick a rod down the barrel to clear.

ETA- If I was serious about a CC .22 (or magnum), I'd buy a S&W Airweight.  If the ammo misfires, pull the trigger again for a fresh chamber and a second chance.

When is the last time you ever had a rimfire fail to fire???  Literally 10's of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of rounds and have yet to have a fail to fire / misfire.  I can't remember ever in my life having one fail.   Now....consistant, accurate, leathality....those can be debated, but not a misfire fail to fire.  I do agree that a revolver is the way to go if you want a .22 mag.  Easy, full proff, jam proof, and crazy fun to shoot.  Mine is also surprisingly accurate. 

I don't believe you've never had a rimfire "fail to fire/misfire".   Priming compound is spun into the rim, it's not uncommon to have a spot in the rim without primer.  The last misfires (and one hang fire) I've seen were during hunter safety live fire recently.

We're talking self defence here.  Why would you intentionally use a round that is more likely to have a defect?  Let alone the issues of clearing a dud.

[b23]

There are some really good deals going on right now, this being one of them and would be a very good choice for CCW. 

https://grabagun.com/s-w-642-1-875-38-sts-alum-lsr-grp.html

[Jolten]

If interested I have an original ruger LC9 I'd be willing to part ways with