WDFW Predator Lawsuit

[Southpole]

I'm in, where do I send the money?

[bearpaw]

to me this is a classic opportunity for people to put their money where their mouths are.  Something has to happen and someone has to get the ball rolling.  This lawsuit whether it is successful or not can send a unified message about predator management, control and fears.  Not every idea or action is going to be the one that works, but many times we can look back to one that got the ball rolling...  Looking forward to an opportunity to contribute and hopefully those on hear with concerns followed by pages and pages of threads will show up where it counts when this kicks off.

Thank you, I much prefer optimism! 

[bearpaw]

I'm in, where do I send the money?

Don't send any money yet. Just make a pledge that when the lawsuit is announced how much you might be willing to send if the suit sounds good to you?

[Rainier10]

Interested to see where this goes and what the approach will be legally.

[idahohuntr]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy? If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

You mean like the scam of the ESA or any other liberal environmentalists green predator driven agendas??

Exactly like that...lawyers line their pockets and nothing gets accomplished. 

I'm still curious to see some facts about this purported lawsuit - what it will accomplish and how they think it will be successful.

[bigtex]

I wish you luck in funding this. 

From what I've seen, raising any meaningful amount of money (in legal fee terms, like $50K) is almost impossible.  I've seen it with fisheries issues.  People are more than happy to spend $40K on a boat, buy $400 rods, and spend $300 a day on boat fuel, but getting them to donate more than $100 is about like getting them to donate a child.  Hopefully hunters are more willing to spend money on this than fisherman!

First I know exactly what you mean about getting people to part with their money. However, this is different, people are mad as hell at WDFW, people want to show WDFW that they work for us, not us working for them!

I'm one resident in a state with a couple hundred thousand hunters. I'll pledge $500 right now and follow up with the donation when the time comes, if the suit looks good when announced I may throw in a $5000 guided lion hunt to help benefit the lawsuit. Lets see if there is support, is anyone else willing to make a small pledge at this time provided the lawsuit is filed and happens? Every $10 or $20 pledge will add up!

People are mad as hell over fisheries issues as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[bearpaw]

I wish you luck in funding this. 

From what I've seen, raising any meaningful amount of money (in legal fee terms, like $50K) is almost impossible.  I've seen it with fisheries issues.  People are more than happy to spend $40K on a boat, buy $400 rods, and spend $300 a day on boat fuel, but getting them to donate more than $100 is about like getting them to donate a child.  Hopefully hunters are more willing to spend money on this than fisherman!

First I know exactly what you mean about getting people to part with their money. However, this is different, people are mad as hell at WDFW, people want to show WDFW that they work for us, not us working for them!

I'm one resident in a state with a couple hundred thousand hunters. I'll pledge $500 right now and follow up with the donation when the time comes, if the suit looks good when announced I may throw in a $5000 guided lion hunt to help benefit the lawsuit. Lets see if there is support, is anyone else willing to make a small pledge at this time provided the lawsuit is filed and happens? Every $10 or $20 pledge will add up!

People are mad as hell over fisheries issues as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Agreed, WDFW is not making many friends of hunters and fishers.

[Tbar]

I wish you luck in funding this. 

From what I've seen, raising any meaningful amount of money (in legal fee terms, like $50K) is almost impossible.  I've seen it with fisheries issues.  People are more than happy to spend $40K on a boat, buy $400 rods, and spend $300 a day on boat fuel, but getting them to donate more than $100 is about like getting them to donate a child.  Hopefully hunters are more willing to spend money on this than fisherman!

First I know exactly what you mean about getting people to part with their money. However, this is different, people are mad as hell at WDFW, people want to show WDFW that they work for us, not us working for them!

I'm one resident in a state with a couple hundred thousand hunters. I'll pledge $500 right now and follow up with the donation when the time comes, if the suit looks good when announced I may throw in a $5000 guided lion hunt to help benefit the lawsuit. Lets see if there is support, is anyone else willing to make a small pledge at this time provided the lawsuit is filed and happens? Every $10 or $20 pledge will add up!

People are mad as hell over fisheries issues as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Agreed, WDFW is not making many friends of hunters and fishers.

And hunters and fishers are not making many friends with hunters and fishers.  Fragmented and divided with the exception of hhc. Most major conservation(hunting) NGOs will stand down and a few will side with the wdfw.

[Tbar]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy?  If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

Keep an eye on the Capitol Press, I heard there may be mention there soon. 

The Capitol Press?  This is an ag industry media outlet correct?  That referred to elk as an invasive species correct? The Capitol Press has not been an advocate of wildlife in general, and now they are promoting a lawsuit to support ungulate herd recovery?  I can't wait to read!  Sounds great that industry is supporting wildlife!
 

[bearpaw]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy?  If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

Keep an eye on the Capitol Press, I heard there may be mention there soon. 

The Capitol Press?  This is an ag industry media outlet correct?  That referred to elk as an invasive species correct? The Capitol Press has not been an advocate of wildlife in general, and now they are promoting a lawsuit to support ungulate herd recovery?  I can't wait to read!  Sounds great that industry is supporting wildlife!
 

Awesome, thanks for your insight, maybe cattle and sheep producers will sign on?

[jackelope]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy?  If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

Keep an eye on the Capitol Press, I heard there may be mention there soon. 

The Capitol Press?  This is an ag industry media outlet correct?  That referred to elk as an invasive species correct? The Capitol Press has not been an advocate of wildlife in general, and now they are promoting a lawsuit to support ungulate herd recovery?  I can't wait to read!  Sounds great that industry is supporting wildlife!
 

If the Capital Press is supporting it, I bet it's most likely in support of predator management in terms of livestock depredation, not so much increasing ungulate recovery. It's just a byproduct of increased predator management.
Thoughts?
 

[Tbar]

Another interesting element would be the WAG, from a process standpoint the court would be in an odd spot.  Nearly every special interest group is working together for a common solution? Is industry going to deviate from the process to pursue relief as ordered by the court? When will they state the intent of the lawsuit to garner support?

[WSU]

Another interesting element would be the WAG, from a process standpoint the court would be in an odd spot.  Nearly every special interest group is working together for a common solution? Is industry going to deviate from the process to pursue relief as ordered by the court? When will they state the intent of the lawsuit to garner support?

Two totally separate processes and they won't change anyone or any entity's right to file a legal challenge.  That said, WDFW will undoubtedly point to the WAG and collaboration with the interest groups to show that its actions were reasonable.

[Rainier10]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy?  If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

Keep an eye on the Capitol Press, I heard there may be mention there soon. 

The Capitol Press?  This is an ag industry media outlet correct?  That referred to elk as an invasive species correct? The Capitol Press has not been an advocate of wildlife in general, and now they are promoting a lawsuit to support ungulate herd recovery?  I can't wait to read!  Sounds great that industry is supporting wildlife!
 

If the Capital Press is supporting it, I bet it's most likely in support of predator management in terms of livestock depredation, not so much increasing ungulate recovery. It's just a byproduct of increased predator management.
Thoughts?

That's kind of my thought.  They may be wanting to decrease predators but they don't want more ungulates competing for the same food that their livestock needs.

[idahohuntr]

This is exciting news for Washington hunters, a lawsuit is planned to have the court force WDFW to properly manage predators so balanced management will once again occur in Washington. It has become painfully obvious that nothing short of a court order will result in predator management in Washington. This news comes from a capable and reliable source of which will be known when the lawsuit happens this spring.   

What are "properly managed predators" and how does a court force an agency to do this?  I'm all for wolf hunting, more bear harvest, more cougar harvest, baits, dogs etc...but without any details it seems far fetched anything meaningful will come as a result of a lawsuit intended to force wdfw "to properly manage predators". 

I could see litigation over wolf delisting (arguing the state has been arbitrary in its criteria?) or possibly over depredation issues...but even those issues will not lead to "properly managed predators".  As others noted, the courts will defer to agency experts if it is a matter of professional judgement and which data/science applies...leaving a major uphill battle to plaintiffs.   

There is a saying about things that sound too good to be true...this may fall in that category.

This, if it does happen, will be a very short case. "Proper" would be a near impossible legal definition.

WOW, just wow, I'm not the one writing the lawsuit and that's not the language of the suit!   
I was merely informing folks "in my own words" of what is being planned so those of us who want to see some positive change can build support. I thank anyone for any support they are willing to provide!

Without more facts it is very difficult to understand how anyone could build meaningful support.  Is this just a scam to make lawyers wealthy?  If plaintiffs are not ready to file suit why are they blabbing about it on social media and giving the defendants more time (and material) to defeat a potential lawsuit?  None of this seems logical or well thought out and other than the folks mentioning a tribal angle I don't see a lot of avenues to a successful lawsuit    I guess we will just have to wait until Spring.

Keep an eye on the Capitol Press, I heard there may be mention there soon. 

The Capitol Press?  This is an ag industry media outlet correct?  That referred to elk as an invasive species correct? The Capitol Press has not been an advocate of wildlife in general, and now they are promoting a lawsuit to support ungulate herd recovery?  I can't wait to read!  Sounds great that industry is supporting wildlife!
 

If the Capital Press is supporting it, I bet it's most likely in support of predator management in terms of livestock depredation, not so much increasing ungulate recovery. It's just a byproduct of increased predator management.
Thoughts?

I continue to withhold judgement until more details are known...but I don't get warm fuzzies if big ag is behind the lawsuit.  At best there is a narrow overlap where a byproduct of their efforts might be beneficial to sportsmen.  However, on a host of issues most farm bureau and ag industry folks are not sportsmen friendly.  I'm sure they would be happy to take sportsmen's hard earned money and use us as a pawn in their game though.