Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd

[Dan-o]

Giggling emoji? You don't know me know me, not what I've done on behalf of the resources you're attempting to speak for. Your claims and accusations that we all are the same are baseless, unfounded and ignorant. There's over 11,000 Yakamas and I don't know even half of them.

I was doing things on behalf of the resources log before I came here and was doing them while I was here and will continue after.

Why don't you go back and do some research or ask people here that are non-natives that ive met with and had lengthy discussions with in person.

Do you think this thread is new? I remember it getting so bad here that no matter what I said, what I showed or what I did didn't matter to some.

SOME, not all, a FEW bad apples ruined it for the rest of the HW members. I couldn't post anything anywhere without coming under attack.  For whatever reason I was pegged as the representative of the tribe here, supposedly whatever a tribal member did was my direct fault and knowledge and I could've prevented it. Really??? Me???

So yes, I put a laughing emoticon at the end because I'm leaning more and more towards ignoring these types of threads because no matter what I say most won't listen.

Like I said, who else enjoys being told by others how I am, who I am and what I do when they're completely wrong.

Oh well...flame on.

Sad to see this crap degenerate again......

Such broad statements about the tribe.

I saw where a white guy robbed a bank today, so I guess I condone bank robbery.
(I mean, as long as we're painting with broad brushes, right?)

Plat, thanks for sticking around.

[Special T]

I’d probably let Plat decide if he wants to “represent” the tribe before appointing him their rep.

Just sayin.

Fair enough... My point being is that Plat has engaged us more than anyone else with dialogue.  IMO if all you read online on this issue he provides the most insight.  Im not saying that I agree with everything he says, but without him conversation is a black hole...

[rtspring]

Giggling emoji? You don't know me know me, not what I've done on behalf of the resources you're attempting to speak for. Your claims and accusations that we all are the same are baseless, unfounded and ignorant. There's over 11,000 Yakamas and I don't know even half of them.

I was doing things on behalf of the resources log before I came here and was doing them while I was here and will continue after.

Why don't you go back and do some research or ask people here that are non-natives that ive met with and had lengthy discussions with in person.

Do you think this thread is new? I remember it getting so bad here that no matter what I said, what I showed or what I did didn't matter to some.

SOME, not all, a FEW bad apples ruined it for the rest of the HW members. I couldn't post anything anywhere without coming under attack.  For whatever reason I was pegged as the representative of the tribe here, supposedly whatever a tribal member did was my direct fault and knowledge and I could've prevented it. Really??? Me???

So yes, I put a laughing emoticon at the end because I'm leaning more and more towards ignoring these types of threads because no matter what I say most won't listen.

Like I said, who else enjoys being told by others how I am, who I am and what I do when they're completely wrong.

Oh well...flame on.

I’ve had many a conversation and hunts with my indian brother!! We both bleed the same red blood!   Listen to the truth and you just might find the truth... 

[Tinmaniac]

Giggling emoji? You don't know me know me, not what I've done on behalf of the resources you're attempting to speak for. Your claims and accusations that we all are the same are baseless, unfounded and ignorant. There's over 11,000 Yakamas and I don't know even half of them.

I was doing things on behalf of the resources log before I came here and was doing them while I was here and will continue after.

Why don't you go back and do some research or ask people here that are non-natives that ive met with and had lengthy discussions with in person.

Do you think this thread is new? I remember it getting so bad here that no matter what I said, what I showed or what I did didn't matter to some.

SOME, not all, a FEW bad apples ruined it for the rest of the HW members. I couldn't post anything anywhere without coming under attack.  For whatever reason I was pegged as the representative of the tribe here, supposedly whatever a tribal member did was my direct fault and knowledge and I could've prevented it. Really??? Me???

So yes, I put a laughing emoticon at the end because I'm leaning more and more towards ignoring these types of threads because no matter what I say most won't listen.

Like I said, who else enjoys being told by others how I am, who I am and what I do when they're completely wrong.

Oh well...flame on.

Sad to see this crap degenerate again......

Such broad statements about the tribe.

I saw where a white guy robbed a bank today, so I guess I condone bank robbery.
(I mean, as long as we're painting with broad brushes, right?)

Plat, thanks for sticking around.

This makes no sense.Bank robbery is illegal and not condoned by anyone no matter the color of skin or sovereignty.

[Dan-o]

Giggling emoji? You don't know me know me, not what I've done on behalf of the resources you're attempting to speak for. Your claims and accusations that we all are the same are baseless, unfounded and ignorant. There's over 11,000 Yakamas and I don't know even half of them.

I was doing things on behalf of the resources log before I came here and was doing them while I was here and will continue after.

Why don't you go back and do some research or ask people here that are non-natives that ive met with and had lengthy discussions with in person.

Do you think this thread is new? I remember it getting so bad here that no matter what I said, what I showed or what I did didn't matter to some.

SOME, not all, a FEW bad apples ruined it for the rest of the HW members. I couldn't post anything anywhere without coming under attack.  For whatever reason I was pegged as the representative of the tribe here, supposedly whatever a tribal member did was my direct fault and knowledge and I could've prevented it. Really??? Me???

So yes, I put a laughing emoticon at the end because I'm leaning more and more towards ignoring these types of threads because no matter what I say most won't listen.

Like I said, who else enjoys being told by others how I am, who I am and what I do when they're completely wrong.

Oh well...flame on.

Sad to see this crap degenerate again......

Such broad statements about the tribe.

I saw where a white guy robbed a bank today, so I guess I condone bank robbery.
(I mean, as long as we're painting with broad brushes, right?)

Plat, thanks for sticking around.

This makes no sense.Bank robbery is illegal and not condoned by anyone no matter the color of skin or sovereignty.

You missed my point.

My point is that painting people groups with a broad brush is not right.

If you read through this thread, you'll see people saying "The Yakama's this" and "The Yakama's that.".
Saying that about the Yakama's makes no more sense than saying since a white guy robbed a bank, we are all like that.

I don't know many Yakama's.   I  know a few.
Funny thing......    They are people.

There are awesome Yakama people and lousy Yakama people.
There are awesome white people and lousy White people.

Painting a large group of people with a broad brush is just plain wrong.
And racism is always ugly.

I have no qualms condemning the actions of an individual, if warranted.
I do reject painting a group based on an individual's actions.


There is a larger issue here, and I'd love to see us work together to resolve it.......   Covert racist crap will only hinder that.

Have a good day.

P.S.   
I'm not calling you a racist.
When I read this thread, I see typically subtle racist comments.
If you read it differently, I guess that's ok.


adjective: racist

    showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races

[TriggerMike]

Plat is obviously not the problem and anyone who thinks otherwise has no idea what goes on here.

Can we get back on topic? The news article stated that the tribe reported over harvest of bulls, so that leads me to believe they due in fact keep track of harvest in one way or another? Is it 1% of all harvest or 99%? That's what I want to know. If anyone from the Yakama Nation could answer this simple question it would go a long ways toward figuring this out.....

[bobcat]

Dan- But it is the entire Yakama nation that is responsible for killing too many elk. Their leaders allow it to happen. Their seasons are much too liberal. There is no limit to how many elk an individual person can harvest per year. Again, NO LIMIT. And, the season is year around for bulls. Cows it's four months long, from September 1 to December 31. So, you can't blame individuals who kill dozens, or hundreds, of elk every year. They're not in violation of the law. And no, it's not racist to say that they are killing too many elk. It's simply stating a fact. The problem with the Yakima elk herd is NOT predators. It is the Yakama Indians.

[dvolmer]

Dan- But it is the entire Yakama nation that is responsible for killing too many elk. Their leaders allow it to happen. Their seasons are much too liberal. There is no limit to how many elk an individual person can harvest per year. Again, NO LIMIT. And, the season is year around for bulls. Cows it's four months long, from August 1 to December 31. So, you can't blame individuals who kill dozens, or hundreds, of elk every year. They're not in violation of the law. And no, it's not racist to say that they are killing too many elk. It's simply stating a fact. The problem with the Yakima elk herd is NOT predators. It is the Yakama Indians.

Amen!!

[PlateauNDN]

Bobcat, it's Sept 1 thru Dec 31. If you're going to complain then get the facts right. And no, it's not the whole tribe nor the elders, but again ALL the HW tribal experts know our politics and so I leave the explanation to you guys.

[trophyhunt]

The open dates are not the problem, we know what the problem is. Greed on the side of a few, the problem is ZERO limits on deer and elk, when you mix greed with no limits, you get what we have.

[Stein]

I think the point is the tribe has the legal right to hunt elk and they are under no obligation to issue licenses, track harvest or report anything to WDFW or anyone else.  Further, if they harvest more, WDFW will compensate by allowing fewer tags.

So, put yourself in the other boots and ask yourself why would they release any data or want to work with WDFW?

There has to be a mutually beneficial reason for both sides to come to the table.  Right now, it is not in the tribe's best interest and WDFW doesn't really care.  Unless someone figures out a way for both sides to come out ahead nothing will change.

As imperfect as the salmon setting season is, both sides need to agree on the total harvest allowable and then each side's share or nobody goes fishing.  From that, other partnerships have been built and we have great things like tribal hatcheries.

I place a good deal of blame on the state (separate somewhat from WDFW).  For the most part, Olympia prefers easy stuff like throwing an occasional few bucks, holding press conferences on diversity and sympathetic talk rather than doing hard work to permanently make things better.

It may not be possible, but it would be a good thing to at least try.

[bobcat]

Bobcat, it's Sept 1 thru Dec 31. If you're going to complain then get the facts right. And no, it's not the whole tribe nor the elders, but again ALL the HW tribal experts know our politics and so I leave the explanation to you guys.

Okay, I changed my post from August to September, I did have the 4 months correct!

And no, I don't know your tribe's politics, but I don't need to. All I'm saying is the lack of any kind of reasonable limitations on the number of elk harvested by each member IS A PROBLEM! Look at other tribes in the state. They have limits on the number of animals a person can take. The Yakama tribe does not. And we, the non Indians, have an extremely small number of bull permits available to us. I'm pretty sure you see it as a problem just as I do.

[ctwiggs1]

Hey Plat - just curious, does the Yakama tribe have mandatory reporting for tribal members?   

[Special T]

Dan- But it is the entire Yakama nation that is responsible for killing too many elk. Their leaders allow it to happen. Their seasons are much too liberal. There is no limit to how many elk an individual person can harvest per year. Again, NO LIMIT. And, the season is year around for bulls. Cows it's four months long, from September 1 to December 31. So, you can't blame individuals who kill dozens, or hundreds, of elk every year. They're not in violation of the law. And no, it's not racist to say that they are killing too many elk. It's simply stating a fact. The problem with the Yakima elk herd is NOT predators. It is the Yakama Indians.

Since there is no reporting any number we use is a shot in the dark. Is this problematic? Yes... Is it possible to manage the resource if these numbers are not known? No it doesnt seem possible.

[Tinmaniac]

Obviously we are all idiots.Plat,you could educate all of us on what it means to be tribal.We all live under the same flag yet the rules are so different.Is it any wonder why there is bad blood?Coming on here and fanning the flames is easy.You are actually in a unique position of helping to bridge the divide in the small community that exists here.How you choose to use that position is entirely up to you.