300RUM/200gr.accubond

[Jamieb]

I recovered a bullet from yesterdays bull that bothers me. I cant really call it a bullet failure as the bull went down in less then ten feet.
The rifle is a Remington 700 in 300 RUM. load=200gr accubond over 95.5 gr. of retumbo, muzzle velocity 3175fps. the shot was 100 yards only hitting ribs and the bullet didn't exit, stopped at the offside skin. The recovered bullet weighs 124.5 gr. Now I'm thinking a leg bone on the entrance might stop this bullet. I put in way to much time into working up this load to even think about changing bullets now. What do you guy think?

The bullet

 

Thanks Jamie

[ellensburgpo]

What part of the dead animal and what appears to be perfect expansion is the failure?

[bankwalker]

That's a pretty close for that setup. I would expect exactly that result from any bullet other than a barnes copper bullet.
I would be more happy to see a perfect bullet expansion doing its job right. Than worry about weight retention.

[Jason]

Looks like it worked. I would be upset if it shed that much weight without hitting any bones. Accubonds have always worked well for me with the three Elk I shot with them went no more than a few yards after the shot.

[brew]

Wow…this thread brings up something I have been thinking about over this past week.  No way am I trying to brag but I’ve killed a lot of deer over the past 35 years of hunting and I have never recovered a bullet from the deer I’ve shot.  Started out with a 270 and for the past 30 years have been using a 7 mag coupled with 160 gr nosler partitions.  A couple years ago bought a BLR 358 Win with open sights and have wanted to kill a deer with that but with my crappy eyesight haven’t had the opportunity yet.  Last Tuesday evening had a nice blackie within 100 yards so I grabbed the 358 loaded with Hornady 200 grain accubonds and took the shot.  Broadside and after the recoil he was gone.  Went to where he last stood and it was a little uphill shot.  Ground was all tore up where he was and expected him to be there behind the hill…nothing but tore up earth. No blood.  Looked at the area he was facing and it was a huge brushpile…no blood anywhere.  Went over the nob he was on and in the direction he was facing,,,,no blood.  Went about 20 yards and saw a brown patch piled up in the bush.   He layed there in the brush side up where I shot…didn’t see any entrance wound.  Grabbed him and flipped him over to see the exit wound/where I hit him and there was nothing.  Gutted him out and there were no trace of lungs left—they were gelatinous gobs of goo looking like red jello.  Later skinning him out I found the 200 grain accubond just under the skin on the opposite shoulder.  Upon closer inspection/cutting the deer up I shot through the near leg, through the ribs, lungs, and the bullet broke the far leg right at the shoulder joint.  A lot more damage than initial inspection.  I guess I shot him about 2” right then where I thought the shot was .  Surprised to find the bullet but looking back the muzzle velocity of that 35 caliber bullet  is 2475 fps and the bullet performed what I needed it to do…damage the interior without exiting.  Will continue to use that as long as my old ass eyes can use the open sights.  Will try to attach a pic of the recovered bullet along with a live round and a pic of the buck where the entrance wound was with a single drop of blood on it.

[jdb]

That's not an accubond

[Wanttohuntmore]

I believe that is about as perfect of expansion you could get given the velocity.   I wouldn't change a thing.   This actually gives me more faith in the accubonds. 

[Mr Mykiss]

Hold on...you think an elk leg bone will stop a Remington ultra Mag pushing a 200 grains at 3200 fps?

No seriously?

For realsies??

[Jamieb]

Hold on...you think an elk leg bone will stop a Remington ultra Mag pushing a 200 grains at 3200 fps?

No seriously?

For realsies??

That bullet only hit rib bones and there isn't much left of it. Would that bullet have broke up if I hit a heavy bone?

[The scout]

Sure it’s not a lrab those perform like that every time. Kinda surprised the regular accubond would do that.

[BNAElkhntr]

I've Shot Quite a few Animal size of Elk Or Larger  And Have Switched to Nosler E-Tip Nearly 100 percent Retention 

[Jamieb]

Sure it’s not a lrab those perform like that every time. Kinda surprised the regular accubond would do that.

I'm sure they are not LRABs. I bought a 1000 200gr. accubonds before Nosler came out with the long range version and I'm still using those.

[Mr Mykiss]

Ok. Not being a gun guy at all. My general understanding is that with your setup you're hitting the elk with a freight train. My guess is that it's likely that that bullet lost so much weight because it was going so fast, if it were going slower it wouldn't have. This is based on my research of shooting all lead muzzy bullets at more vs less velocity...I reckon the general concept is the same.
People have been consistently killing elks with much smaller bullets traveling much slower...shattering bone and killing stuff dead as a doornail. See 30-06, 270, etc

[92xj]

Your shot was so close that your velocity was greater on impact than your optimal expansion velocity range and the bullet came apart, but still did it's job.

I would continue to shot your load and next time step back a few yards 

 

[theleo]

Wow…this thread brings up something I have been thinking about over this past week.  No way am I trying to brag but I’ve killed a lot of deer over the past 35 years of hunting and I have never recovered a bullet from the deer I’ve shot.  Started out with a 270 and for the past 30 years have been using a 7 mag coupled with 160 gr nosler partitions.  A couple years ago bought a BLR 358 Win with open sights and have wanted to kill a deer with that but with my crappy eyesight haven’t had the opportunity yet.  Last Tuesday evening had a nice blackie within 100 yards so I grabbed the 358 loaded with Hornady 200 grain accubonds and took the shot.  Broadside and after the recoil he was gone.  Went to where he last stood and it was a little uphill shot.  Ground was all tore up where he was and expected him to be there behind the hill…nothing but tore up earth. No blood.  Looked at the area he was facing and it was a huge brushpile…no blood anywhere.  Went over the nob he was on and in the direction he was facing,,,,no blood.  Went about 20 yards and saw a brown patch piled up in the bush.   He layed there in the brush side up where I shot…didn’t see any entrance wound.  Grabbed him and flipped him over to see the exit wound/where I hit him and there was nothing.  Gutted him out and there were no trace of lungs left—they were gelatinous gobs of goo looking like red jello.  Later skinning him out I found the 200 grain accubond just under the skin on the opposite shoulder.  Upon closer inspection/cutting the deer up I shot through the near leg, through the ribs, lungs, and the bullet broke the far leg right at the shoulder joint.  A lot more damage than initial inspection.  I guess I shot him about 2” right then where I thought the shot was .  Surprised to find the bullet but looking back the muzzle velocity of that 35 caliber bullet  is 2475 fps and the bullet performed what I needed it to do…damage the interior without exiting.  Will continue to use that as long as my old ass eyes can use the open sights.  Will try to attach a pic of the recovered bullet along with a live round and a pic of the buck where the entrance wound was with a single drop of blood on it.

That's an Interlock, not an Accubond.

I'd chalk this up to sometimes weird stuff happens. They're all that gets shot through my 280ai and I have yet to recover one. I shot my bull last year 3 times hoping I might get one back since it was just inside 100 yards, but all 3 exited. The other telling experience for me was shooting a small 5 x 5 at 350-ish yards as he was heading down hill. The bullet hit the spine just back of the points of the shoulders, traveled the depth of the bull's chest, and exited between the shoulder blade and brisket. All and all, pretty impressive performance from a 140gr bullet. Guys I know that use them in 300 win and 300 RUM haven't had any issues either and they've got a pile of elk with less than ideal shots under their belts.

[Damnimissed]

That looks perfect. They are expected to she 30-40% of their weight, and you are pushing it pretty fast. I recovered my 200gr AB, also from a 300rum, from my bull this year in top part of the offside shoulder after breaking his back. It weighs 108.8gr. It was a 75 yd shot, and while it shed about 45%, the jacket never separated and the bull absorbed over 4000ft lbs of energy.

[Jamieb]

Heres a picture of the bull.


Thanks for the replies, I'll keep using this rifle/load combo for elk.


Thanks Jamie

[Chesapeake]

Accubonds are supposed to impact and fragment the front retaining 60-70% weight and the back penetrates. 124 grains is just north of 60% weight retention on a 200 grain bullet.
Looks to me like that bullet performed perfectly as designed. Cant ask for much more than that.

[Buckjunkie]

I shoot an almost identical load. 200g ab going 3218 FPS. Shot my moose last year twice at 100 yards. 1st shot hit left front shoulder exited behind right front. He spun around and I shot him in the right front shoulder exiting through the 1st shot hole. He dumped on the 2nd shot.

Shot a big bull elk this year at 80 yards in the neck. Quartered through lodging under the hide on top of the right shoulder. He dumped. That bullet weighed 120g or 60% retention.

I think it’s an excellent load. I think you could kill anything on the continent with it although I would probably load a tougher bullet for brown or grizzly bears.

[Goshawk]

Let fragments and hard bone performance is what pushed me to the Barnes copper bullets.  Super fast expansion, no or very little weight loss and no lead getting spread through the meat.

[Taco280AI]

I had great results with Accubonds, but prefer the LRX and only use them now. Very accurate and tough. Yet to recover one on deer.

[Buckjunkie]

Only two experiences with LRX, but both performed well. 7 STW with 145 LRX. 120 yards and 340 yards on Mule deer. Both were pass through shots and neither went more than a couple steps.

[Taco280AI]

4 deer with them from a 280AI, ~50 - 293 yards

[Damnimissed]

I had great results with Accubonds, but prefer the LRX and only use them now. Very accurate and tough. Yet to recover one on deer.

What made you switch switch, after having great results with AB’s?

[Taco280AI]

Got into reloading and from the start they weren't picky, just shot well. After that couldn't get ABs to match them.

[Screwtape5981]

I went to all solid copper for my .300win mag  and .270 for same reasons

[Taco280AI]

Doing some load development for the 257 Wby with the 110 AB and 100 TTSX, will see if the Barnes gets the nod again

[Jamieb]

Doing some load development for the 257 Wby with the 110 AB and 100 TTSX, will see if the Barnes gets the nod again

110gr. accubond over IMR 7828, fast and sub MOA in my rem 700, 257wby

[W_Ellison2011]

I know I'm late to this discussion but I've been off the site for a while handling life. IMO... that bullet is performing like the old hornady Amax. Close range high velocity it will lose a lot of its weight. Idk if it will come apart if it hit a major bone or if it would hold together but from the 60-65% weight retention you have I would switch to a barnes TSX or TTSX. If you plan on shooting longer ranges, aka 650+ yards, with the setup then either keep the noslers or switch to the 212 gr hornady ELDX. Personally, I run a 200 gr barnes TSX in my 300 wby at 3150 fps. I have a custom built 300 wm that I get 3075 fps with a 212 gr ELDX. The win mag is a long range setup though. The reason I would really push for barnes is the weight retention. Everyone I know thats recovered one from deer, elk, bears, etc, has had 95-100% weight retention.

[Jonathan_S]

The Accubond might leave a little to be desired at the extended ranges bit is a devastating bullet. If looking to change it up in the future...215 or 230 Berger  A ballistic monster that is definitely tough enough for a big critter.

Maximum weight retention for deer, elk, black bears is overrated IMO. It's cool for a picture but it is definitely not the end-all-be-all metric for terminal performance that some people tend to think it is. No offense meant to the Barnes Boys, just my perspective 

[W_Ellison2011]

The Accubond might leave a little to be desired at the extended ranges bit is a devastating bullet. If looking to change it up in the future...215 or 230 Berger  A ballistic monster that is definitely tough enough for a big critter.

Maximum weight retention for deer, elk, black bears is overrated IMO. It's cool for a picture but it is definitely not the end-all-be-all metric for terminal performance that some people tend to think it is. No offense meant to the Barnes Boys, just my perspective 

Everybody I've talked to says the Bergers blow up. If they work for you then cool but I personally wouldn't want to be picking chunks of lead and copper out of the meat.

[kselkhunter]

The Accubond might leave a little to be desired at the extended ranges bit is a devastating bullet. If looking to change it up in the future...215 or 230 Berger  A ballistic monster that is definitely tough enough for a big critter.

Maximum weight retention for deer, elk, black bears is overrated IMO. It's cool for a picture but it is definitely not the end-all-be-all metric for terminal performance that some people tend to think it is. No offense meant to the Barnes Boys, just my perspective 

Everybody I've talked to says the Bergers blow up. If they work for you then cool but I personally wouldn't want to be picking chunks of lead and copper out of the meat.

The Berger VLD is a fragmenting bullet.  Designed to penetrate a couple of inches and then fragment. 

[Jonathan_S]

The Accubond might leave a little to be desired at the extended ranges bit is a devastating bullet. If looking to change it up in the future...215 or 230 Berger  A ballistic monster that is definitely tough enough for a big critter.

Maximum weight retention for deer, elk, black bears is overrated IMO. It's cool for a picture but it is definitely not the end-all-be-all metric for terminal performance that some people tend to think it is. No offense meant to the Barnes Boys, just my perspective 

Everybody I've talked to says the Bergers blow up. If they work for you then cool but I personally wouldn't want to be picking chunks of lead and copper out of the meat.

Dont shoot the meat 

As mentioned the Bergers are designed to penetrate and fragment. Definitely more than one way to create massive internal trauma, that was my point with my first post.

[Taco280AI]

So what's the real difference between a Berger "hunting bullet" and a standard target bullet? They both come apart and don't retain their weight. Seems like they slapped the name "hunting" on a target bullet and sold a ton.

[Jonathan_S]

Jacket thickness. Correct they dont retain their weight which is good because they aren't designed to.

[W_Ellison2011]

Jacket thickness. Correct they dont retain their weight which is good because they aren't designed to.

They aren't designed to... but the idea of a hunting bullet is to retain weight while properly mushrooming so you hold and transfer more KE as the bullet penetrates more. I'm not saying other bullets won't fragment, I'm simply saying theres bullets with as high of BC that tend to retain more weight and either don't fragment or fragment a lot less. Which means more KE carried through the bullets path in/through an animal and less picking of lead and copper out of meat. Personally... I shoot both a 300 wby and a custom 300 win mag. The 300 wby is 600 yards or less and is pushing a 200 gr barnes tsx at a mv of 3150 fps. The 300 wm, practical hunting range would be 600 yards or closer but if conditions were right I could easily do a 1,000 yard shot, pushes a 212 ELDX at 3075 fps and its got better weight retention than the bergers with just as high of a bc or better in the weight class. The hornady ELDX 212 gr bullet has a g1 bc of .673 while the 210 gr berger hunting bullet has a g1 of .631. Being honest more store bought rums, wby, and win mags are going to have a 1:10 twist barrel that will do a 210 or 212 gr bullet at the most.

[Jonathan_S]

Pretty sure the idea of a hunting bullet is to kill animals. Bergers are one of many that are fantastic at it.

 Agreed that ELDx are better at weight retention. Matter of fact, the last one I shot a deer with presumably retained most of its weight as it penciled through 

[W_Ellison2011]

Pretty sure the idea of a hunting bullet is to kill animals. Bergers are one of many that are fantastic at it.

 Agreed that ELDx are better at weight retention. Matter of fact, the last one I shot a deer with presumably retained most of its weight as it penciled through 

Bergers will kill an animal. Thats true. How much extra blood shot meat do you get though from that bullet basically shotgunning the inside of your animal? A lot more! If you had an ELDx not expand and pencil through... are you sure you didn't use an ELDM by accident? The reason I ask that is there is such a small chance of a poly tipper bullet not expanding that you should have gone out and bought a lotto ticket... that is unless you were taking a shot at such a range that the bullet was traveling too slow for expansion.

[Karl Blanchard]

Your comments seem to come from a place of inexperience. Touting the eldx as superior to a berger or most any other bullet is a bit silly. I shot 20 animals in 2 seasons with eldx and they are just a high bc cup and core bulket with poor lot to lot consistency. They are prone to full jacket/core separation and I've seen several expansion failures including the one Jon talks about. I've been a part of hundreds and hundreds of harvests and what you are saying about bergers is just "internet" jibberish.  The guys that have issues are the ones shooting small for caliber and pushing them way to hard. I've seen well over 100 animals taken with appropriate sized bergers and I've never seen this grenading and massive neat loss you speak of. If you shoot any big bullet into solid parts of an animal you are gonna get meat damage from Barnes, berger, hornady, nosler, or a round ball from a side lock.

[Magnum_Willys]

I'm much more concerned about Bergers Not exploding at low velocity.  Yorke's expansion tests sold me on sticking with SMK's instead. 

[W_Ellison2011]

Your comments seem to come from a place of inexperience. Touting the eldx as superior to a berger or most any other bullet is a bit silly. I shot 20 animals in 2 seasons with eldx and they are just a high bc cup and core bulket with poor lot to lot consistency. They are prone to full jacket/core separation and I've seen several expansion failures including the one Jon talks about. I've been a part of hundreds and hundreds of harvests and what you are saying about bergers is just "internet" jibberish.  The guys that have issues are the ones shooting small for caliber and pushing them way to hard. I've seen well over 100 animals taken with appropriate sized bergers and I've never seen this grenading and massive neat loss you speak of. If you shoot any big bullet into solid parts of an animal you are gonna get meat damage from Barnes, berger, hornady, nosler, or a round ball from a side lock.

yeah... you might want to rethink that about Barnes... I have a good friend who shoots animals with a 338 wm using a 225 gr barnes tsx. Eats all the way up to the holes... my information is from people who have first hand experience and me talking with them in depth about various bullets and using them for hunting specifically. Personally I use a bow and arrow to kill most of my animals but I will take a rifle for bear and mt lion. So basically my comments do NOT come from a place of inexperience lol. My previous comment might have come off as condescending or negative but it was me actually asking. I know a person that bought the wrong box of hornady ELD bullets for his 6.5 cm for mule deer hunting and couldn't figure out why his bullets didn't expand... he was shooting the ELDM and not the ELDX bullets and didn't realize it until later. With the actual ballistics tests I've seen of the different bullets the bergers have the least weight retention and tend to shrapnel or grenade depending on velocity on impact. Thats an actual fact.. not a guess or some internet jibberish. If you are shooting a match grade or target bullet in the bergers then I could see them not doing that but I would personally NEVER use a match or target bullet for hunting. Idc how many animals you have killed or been a part of killing. It doesn't mean you know the best. It just means you think what you have is the best and its your opinion. My personal experiences are that bergers are great target bullets but not great for hunting. The ELDX is in fact superior and that has been proven by the amount of animals that have been killed with them already, their better weight retention than the berger hunting bullets. Mind you I am basing my info off of what I have seen with my own eyes and have been told. Then again the saying,"treat rifle and bullet people like used car salesman," comes to mind. All of this being said. Lets agree to disagree and let the OP make up his own mind.