MUST READ

[dwholmes]

****UPDATE**** I have talked to the vet that was involved and she works for the NW Indians fisheries ( I won't give her name here) she told me the drug that they used to tranquilize the cow elk is called Thianl and the FDA says DO NOT USE ON FOOD GRADE ANIMALS!! This drug is used out of helicopters because it puts the animal down quickly. They use a different drug when they are on the ground trying to tranquilize the animals and its called BAM and I have been told that drug is out of the animals system in 28 days. The Thianl never leaves the animals system and makes it inedible the rest of its life. I have talked to a couple biologist (one with the Swinomish tribe and one with WDFW) and they both have confirmed what she told me but can not tell me if this drug is used throughout the state on all the elk herds. They tranquilized 25 cow elk in the 418 unit with this drug in March. This is a project that involves 8 tribes and wdfw from what I am being told.


I just had a very disturbing phone call with a cousin of mine. His brother shot a cow elk a couple days ago in the 407 unit and she had a collar on it (no big deal) except there was no ID on the collar and she had a tag in her ear that said do not eat and it had a phone number. They get cell service and call the number and it’s a veterinarian and she works with the tribes and state. She said it was safe to eat and they would be fine. Then calls them back a little bit later  and says no you can’t eat the meat because the tribe (stilliguamish) are using non FDA approved tranquilizers when they collared this elk in March.
 The biologist shows up and tells them they aren’t suppose to shoot collared elk (a lie) and that they collared this elk only a week ago (another lie). He took the elk and dumped it so nobody can eat the meat.
 Why is the stilly tribe tranquilizing and collaring elk in the 407 unit....so they can track them and shoot them easier??
 If Wdfw has a 26 million dollar shortfall why are they wasting money putting a tribal collar on these elk.
 Why are they using a unapproved tranquilizer on these animals if it makes the meat inedible what a damn waste!!

[Lumpy Taters]

My very first call would be to the state to verify the information. 

[Mfowl]

Hmmm...I seem to recall reading several warnings about not shooting collared elk specifically because the tranqs make them inedible for even up to months afterward. These were from WDFW  regarding collaring in the Colockum. Don't know anything about the tribes or the 407. Your cousins brother should call the Vet back and ask what the study is about?

[NOCK NOCK]

Odd for sure.    ……. but isn't your cousins brother, your cousin too?

[Bowhunter3]

Fishy

[Chukarhead]

Welcome to the forum!  It was a grand entrance.

[Stein]

After watching congress today, I would have eaten the meat.

[jackelope]

Odd for sure.    ……. but isn't your cousins brother, your cousin too?

Fishy

[jackelope]

I just saw this posted lots of times on Facebook.

The tribes do lots of management type stuff. I suspect this was an example of that free of any conspiracies.

[ghosthunter]

After watching congress today, I would have eaten the meat.

 

[KFhunter]

It was collared in march?

I woulda ate it.

[dwholmes]

The vet said it was collared on March however the biologist called back and said do not eat it as it was tranquilized last week. Two separate stories on it from the two people who can tell us if it’s fine to eat. The biologist took the elk and dumped it. In the regs it also very clearly states that you are fine to shoot a collared elk. You just need to call and report. All the elk who get tranquilized and tagged are supposed to be done well before hunting season so this issue does not arise. The Stilly tribe is not even located in the area of 407 they are a ways. There was no information on the collar besides it being the Stilly tribes collar.

[Fishmaker57]

A biologist from the Tribe, or from the State? If it was from the state, have him call WDFW and report that the biologist took his elk....I imagine they would issue another tag.

[lastmk8]

I have to agree with Chukarhead , this post is a Grand Entrance to our forum.  That being said, lots of fishy stuff about this situation, and I'm sure I'm not alone it wanting to know the  final outcome. 

As the regs state, shooting a collard elk is ok, so now someone stole your bounty.  Two different stories about when it was collared and darted...??  fishy again.  If everything is legit, I also think the hunter should receive another tag, as our guidelines state just the opposite. 

Not to many things make a person an overnight sensation on this site, unless you are selling fish and making deliveries in the quantities like Skillet, but we would all love to follow this incident until the final chapter.  This is an interesting one, keep us posted please.

Might also consider adding a little more meat to your Subject line, some may just gloss over "Must Read", maybe add darted-collared Elk to it......

Thanks and welcome again.

[KP-Skagit]

And it was a 407 elk... which is equivalent to shooting a Bigfoot/Unicorn hybrid while blindfolded underwater.

[M_ray]

Tagging to see outcome.

[jackelope]

The vet said it was collared on March however the biologist called back and said do not eat it as it was tranquilized last week. Two separate stories on it from the two people who can tell us if it’s fine to eat. The biologist took the elk and dumped it. In the regs it also very clearly states that you are fine to shoot a collared elk. You just need to call and report. All the elk who get tranquilized and tagged are supposed to be done well before hunting season so this issue does not arise. The Stilly tribe is not even located in the area of 407 they are a ways. There was no information on the collar besides it being the Stilly tribes collar.

When you say they dumped it, what do you mean? Specifically. Like....they threw it in the ditch, they took it to a designated place and disposed of it, etc. Preferably facts and not theories.
If it was tranquilized last week, then maybe it's not safe to eat. I don't know the science of it. There are some members of the forum who probably do know and maybe will chime in.

 

[jackelope]

It's probably important to note in all of this that the tribes are one entity and the WDFW is another and i would imagine the tribes don't always know what the WDFW is doing and the WDFW doesn't always know what the tribes are doing.

[SteelheadTed]

I am not sure trying to hash it out here is going to help.  Call WDFW.  There is not prohibition in the regulations to shooting collared elk.

[dwholmes]

Be Sure to check out most recent update edited to original post.

[dwholmes]

I am simply trying to spread the word of this. If they are tranquilizing these animals with drugs that affect them and make them inedible for their lifetime who is to say that these animals aren't passing the stuff in their system to their offspring or to animals that eat it when they die. People put in a lot of time and effort for these elk and to tag one and have it be inedible in my opinion is bs. Even if they give you a new tag.

[Lumpy Taters]

Just read  your update.  Why in the heck would they use something that would render an animal inedible for life on a hunted species!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  That is absolutely ridiculous to put the public in that situation no matter what the reason.  If you need to do this then remove that animal from the population for good.   

[LDennis24]

Thianl I believe is short for Thiafentanyl. This is what they have started using and it is not for animals meant for human consumption! Other tranquilizers are Ketamine with Xylazine used for domestic animals sometimes. Ketamine is used to treat soldiers who are in excruciating pain even. It puts them in another world I hear.

THIAFENTANIL-AZAPERONE-XYLAZINE AND CARFENTANIL-XYLAZINE IMMOBILIZATIONS OF FREE-RANGING CARIBOU (RANGIFER TARANDUS GRANTI) IN ALASKA, USA.
Lian M, et al. J Wildl Dis. 2016.
Show full citation
Abstract
Carfentanil-xylazine (CX) has been the primary drug combination used for immobilizing free-ranging ungulates in Alaska, US since 1986. We investigated the efficacy of a potential new drug of choice, thiafentanil (Investigational New Animal Drug A-3080). Captive trials indicated that thiafentanil-azaperone-medetomidine could provide good levels of immobilization. However, field trials conducted in October 2013 on free-ranging caribou ( Rangifer tarandus granti) calves showed the combination too potent, causing three respiratory arrests and one mortality. The protocol was revised to thiafentanil-azaperone-xylazine (TAX), with good results. The induction time was not significantly different between the two combinations. However, the recovery time was significantly shorter for the TAX group than for the CX group. A physiologic evaluation was performed on 12 animals immobilized on CX and 15 animals on TAX. Arterial blood was collected after induction and again after 10 min of intranasal oxygen supplements (1 L/min). Both groups had significant increases in partial pressure of arterial oxygen after oxygen treatment. There was a concurrent significant increase in partial pressure of arterial carbon dioxide in both groups. Rectal temperature increased significantly in both groups during the downtime, which is consistent with other studies of potent opioids in ungulates. On the basis of our results, we found TAX to be a potential alternative for the current CX protocol for immobilizing free-ranging caribou calves via helicopter darting

[boneaddict]

Did you get a new tag?

[pianoman9701]

On Thiafentanil oxalate

"M. Indication(s): For immobilization of captive minor species
hoof stock excluding any member of a foodproducing minor species such as deer, elk, or
bison and any minor species animal that may
become eligible for consumption by humans or
food-producing animals."

https://www.fda.gov/media/101533/download

[jaredwitman]

On Thiafentanil oxalate

"M. Indication(s): For immobilization of captive minor species
hoof stock excluding any member of a foodproducing minor species such as deer, elk, or
bison and any minor species animal that may
become eligible for consumption by humans or
food-producing animals."

https://www.fda.gov/media/101533/download

Hmmmm.....

[boneaddict]

Don't advertise to the local junkies that elk might contain opiates........they develop a real case of the munchies

[Pegasus]

Moral to the story is if you shoot a collared elk with a "No Eat" tag in its ear you step away from the carcass and go find yourself another elk to shoot. Problem solved.

[pianoman9701]

Don't advertise to the local junkies that elk might contain opiates........they develop a real case of the munchies

I think I now have devised a plan to reduce hoof disease elk numbers and junkies all at once.

[jstone]

So if a bear eats one of these elk and you kill the bear and eat the bear.? What happens?

[pianoman9701]

So if a bear eats one of these elk and you kill the bear and eat the bear.? What happens?

According to the FDA paper above, it could be harmful.

[TheStovePipeKid]

So if a bear eats one of these elk and you kill the bear and eat the bear.? What happens?

You become a lion king. It's called the circle of life, I believe.

[boneaddict]

You become an opiate addicted crackhead.......and come down with an urge to move to Yakima

[Gobble Doc]

It’s hard to believe they would use a drug that isn’t 99.999999% excreted or metabolized within a reasonable amount of time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hunter399]

I would ask for a refund of your tag,permits points ,anything that's BS.How do the tribes get away with this crap.Did they go to Mexico and buy some expired drugs from a van parked behind the pharmacy.WDFW can't tell the tribes that it's a health risk now,and could be liability responsible when someone eats some .

[444Marlin]

I'm married to a vet and I hunt with a couple vets.  I'll check with them on 'would you eat it?' and 'would you be okay if we fed this meat to your kids?'

I'll let you know what they say.

[LDennis24]

Please do that 444Marlin. I actually know a USDA disease vet also. I will send him a text and see what his opinion is. Unfortunately I would probably do what Pegasus suggested in this situation. It's a hard one.

[Knocker of rocks]

It’s hard to believe they would use a drug that isn’t 99.999999% excreted or metabolized within a reasonable amount of time.

I don't know if this will help.   
https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=icwdmccwhcnews

[huntingfool7]

I am simply trying to spread the word of this. If they are tranquilizing these animals with drugs that affect them and make them inedible for their lifetime who is to say that these animals aren't passing the stuff in their system to their offspring or to animals that eat it when they die. People put in a lot of time and effort for these elk and to tag one and have it be inedible in my opinion is bs. Even if they give you a new tag.

x2   It's odd that they use drugs that stay in the system.

[Knocker of rocks]

I am simply trying to spread the word of this. If they are tranquilizing these animals with drugs that affect them and make them inedible for their lifetime who is to say that these animals aren't passing the stuff in their system to their offspring or to animals that eat it when they die. People put in a lot of time and effort for these elk and to tag one and have it be inedible in my opinion is bs. Even if they give you a new tag.

x2   It's odd that they use drugs that stay in the system.

I'm not so sure that is correct

[KFhunter]

being "FDA approved" and being "safe" isn't always mutually exclusive 

If it isn't "FDA approved" their answer is always "DO NOT CONSUME"

[Jonathan_S]

I'd eat it. 

I doubt that carfentanil and fentanyl are present in muscle that long after the introduction.

I sure wouldn't eat the liver, a quick google search says that both are metabolized in the liver and I dont eat liver anyway.

[Jonathan_S]

And yea there are plenty of "non FDA approved" things that are safe, it just means they wont test it.

Like the FDA no longer inspects beef brain so it's "non FDA Approved"  but nothing about the beef brain changed.

[KFhunter]

have your elk steak with a side of narcan 

[Jonathan_S]

 

[SteelheadTed]

The FDA hasn't approved tap water either.  I knew I was being lied to, 6 glasses of water a day, ha!  It's all a sham.

[Stein]

It would be interesting to send in a few FOI requests to see what permits were in place or required as well as how widespread the practice is as well as any internal WDFW discussions on what to use.