Coloradans unleash wolves on their neighbors: A fitting metaphor for COVID

[KFhunter]

So its ok for tbe Ballot box to add wolves to public state, federal AND private lands, but its not ok to vote to remove them.  Gotcha.


Ballot box is only ok if you happen to agree with the result.



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[KFhunter]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

Thanks to F4WM and citizens of Idaho.

We dont get that in WA. 


You can't hardly go anywhere in Idaho without running into a trap line. My buddy stepped on one this year hunting elk lol.

He thought it was all horrible and it could have taken his foot off! Oh the drama!  He didn't realize you could stick your hand in it and it wouldn't break a bone, let alone a boot.

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[idaho guy]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

[idahohuntr]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

So the Panhandle zone has lots of wolves and the lolo zone has lots of wolves.  Some claim the Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho. If they both have a good number of wolves wouldn't the difference in elk abundance be attributable to other factors? Habitat and forage availability??

[KFhunter]

Habitat has been pretty static the last 20 years, perhaps elk just do better in heavy brush vs wolves

Or perhaps wolves have more deer in the panhandle vs open areas

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[KFhunter]

Regardless, Idahoans put a lot of wolves down and that's gotta help a ton

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[bearpaw]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

So the Panhandle zone has lots of wolves and the lolo zone has lots of wolves.  Some claim the Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho. If they both have a good number of wolves wouldn't the difference in elk abundance be attributable to other factors? Habitat and forage availability??

 

The Lolo zone is the hardest hit zone in Idaho, the Panhandle is somewhat saved by all the wolf hunting going on, you should know that! The Yellowstone herd pretty well destroys your narrative about habitat verses wolves impacting elk. Habitat has been steady at YNP since it was made into a park, the elk herds were robust until wolves were introduced. Now many of the hunting seasons have been ended and the herd still struggles, habitat has been constant, wolves are the sole variable!

[Dan-o]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

So the Panhandle zone has lots of wolves and the lolo zone has lots of wolves.  Some claim the Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho. If they both have a good number of wolves wouldn't the difference in elk abundance be attributable to other factors? Habitat and forage availability??

 

The Lolo zone is the hardest hit zone in Idaho, the Panhandle is somewhat saved by all the wolf hunting going on, you should know that! The Yellowstone herd pretty well destroys your narrative about habitat verses wolves impacting elk. Habitat has been steady at YNP since it was made into a park, the elk herds were robust until wolves were introduced. Now many of the hunting seasons have been ended and the herd still struggles, habitat has been constant, wolves are the sole variable!

Wasn't it just a handful of yeas ago that IDFG paid for lethal removal (shooting from helicopters) of 50+ wolves just in the LOLO?

I remember thinking that the LOLO was a pretty small unit to have 50 wolves commercially removed.
Made me wonder how many were in there, if they were able to shoot 50 from helicopters........

And if I recall correctly, they stated the removal was due to the huge impact they were having on the once-legendary LOLO elk herd.

[bearpaw]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

So the Panhandle zone has lots of wolves and the lolo zone has lots of wolves.  Some claim the Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho. If they both have a good number of wolves wouldn't the difference in elk abundance be attributable to other factors? Habitat and forage availability??

 

The Lolo zone is the hardest hit zone in Idaho, the Panhandle is somewhat saved by all the wolf hunting going on, you should know that! The Yellowstone herd pretty well destroys your narrative about habitat verses wolves impacting elk. Habitat has been steady at YNP since it was made into a park, the elk herds were robust until wolves were introduced. Now many of the hunting seasons have been ended and the herd still struggles, habitat has been constant, wolves are the sole variable!

Wasn't it just a handful of yeas ago that IDFG paid for lethal removal (shooting from helicopters) of 50+ wolves just in the LOLO?

I remember thinking that the LOLO was a pretty small unit to have 50 wolves commercially removed.
Made me wonder how many were in there, if they were able to shoot 50 from helicopters........

And if I recall correctly, they stated the removal was due to the huge impact they were having on the once-legendary LOLO elk herd.

   They didn't remove 50, it was less than that, but they have removed wolves twice that I know of to help the elk herd. Idahohntr knows this too, but he's not going to provide that info!

[Dan-o]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

So the Panhandle zone has lots of wolves and the lolo zone has lots of wolves.  Some claim the Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho. If they both have a good number of wolves wouldn't the difference in elk abundance be attributable to other factors? Habitat and forage availability??

 

The Lolo zone is the hardest hit zone in Idaho, the Panhandle is somewhat saved by all the wolf hunting going on, you should know that! The Yellowstone herd pretty well destroys your narrative about habitat verses wolves impacting elk. Habitat has been steady at YNP since it was made into a park, the elk herds were robust until wolves were introduced. Now many of the hunting seasons have been ended and the herd still struggles, habitat has been constant, wolves are the sole variable!

Wasn't it just a handful of yeas ago that IDFG paid for lethal removal (shooting from helicopters) of 50+ wolves just in the LOLO?

I remember thinking that the LOLO was a pretty small unit to have 50 wolves commercially removed.
Made me wonder how many were in there, if they were able to shoot 50 from helicopters........

And if I recall correctly, they stated the removal was due to the huge impact they were having on the once-legendary LOLO elk herd.

   They didn't remove 50, it was less than that, but they have removed wolves twice that I know of to help the elk herd. Idahohntr knows this too, but he's not going to provide that info!

You are right. 

A quick internet search show they removed 23 in 2014, and have done similar removals in some subsequent years.....     removing over 50 wolves in total from the LOLO in that string of 5 or 6 years. 

[bearpaw]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

So the Panhandle zone has lots of wolves and the lolo zone has lots of wolves.  Some claim the Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho. If they both have a good number of wolves wouldn't the difference in elk abundance be attributable to other factors? Habitat and forage availability??

 

The Lolo zone is the hardest hit zone in Idaho, the Panhandle is somewhat saved by all the wolf hunting going on, you should know that! The Yellowstone herd pretty well destroys your narrative about habitat verses wolves impacting elk. Habitat has been steady at YNP since it was made into a park, the elk herds were robust until wolves were introduced. Now many of the hunting seasons have been ended and the herd still struggles, habitat has been constant, wolves are the sole variable!

Wasn't it just a handful of yeas ago that IDFG paid for lethal removal (shooting from helicopters) of 50+ wolves just in the LOLO?

I remember thinking that the LOLO was a pretty small unit to have 50 wolves commercially removed.
Made me wonder how many were in there, if they were able to shoot 50 from helicopters........

And if I recall correctly, they stated the removal was due to the huge impact they were having on the once-legendary LOLO elk herd.

   They didn't remove 50, it was less than that, but they have removed wolves twice that I know of to help the elk herd. Idahohntr knows this too, but he's not going to provide that info!

You are right. 

A quick internet search show they removed 23 in 2014, and have done similar removals in some subsequent years.....     removing over 50 wolves in total from the LOLO in that string of 5 or 6 years.

thanks for verifying 

[idaho guy]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

So the Panhandle zone has lots of wolves and the lolo zone has lots of wolves.  Some claim the Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho. If they both have a good number of wolves wouldn't the difference in elk abundance be attributable to other factors? Habitat and forage availability??

 
 
The panhandle is not the top producing elk unit to start with. That’s beside the point but the unit I live in for last report success was like 11 or 12 percent it USED to run in the 20 plus percent zone. My other point was that the success rate is inflated due to new cow tags and a late cow season that didn’t even exist when success was 20 percent plus. The cow tag from August 1st to December 31 should be as close to guaranteeing a wild elk harvest as you can get. Even with that success had plummeted Idaho elk are doing ok thanks to very aggressive hunting and trapping. None of that really matters you always want to get in the weeds of areas with elk and wolves and the elk seem to be ok. Answer the question how have ungulates faired in your state after wolves? Washington has tons of habitat with very few deer and elk. Tell me how the blues elk are faring with wolves. You had the same arguments before Washington had a lot of wolves and promised everyone that everything would be fine. Is it ? Quit talking about units in Idaho we get it here and will be trapping and hunting year around before too long. We can already hunt private land year round for wolves. Tell the truth about what’s going on right in front of you. Walla walla? That’s close to the blues is everything working out great ?

[idahohuntr]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

So the Panhandle zone has lots of wolves and the lolo zone has lots of wolves.  Some claim the Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho. If they both have a good number of wolves wouldn't the difference in elk abundance be attributable to other factors? Habitat and forage availability??

 
 
The panhandle is not the top producing elk unit to start with. That’s beside the point but the unit I live in for last report success was like 11 or 12 percent it USED to run in the 20 plus percent zone. My other point was that the success rate is inflated due to new cow tags and a late cow season that didn’t even exist when success was 20 percent plus. The cow tag from August 1st to December 31 should be as close to guaranteeing a wild elk harvest as you can get. Even with that success had plummeted Idaho elk are doing ok thanks to very aggressive hunting and trapping. None of that really matters you always want to get in the weeds of areas with elk and wolves and the elk seem to be ok. Answer the question how have ungulates faired in your state after wolves? Washington has tons of habitat with very few deer and elk. Tell me how the blues elk are faring with wolves. You had the same arguments before Washington had a lot of wolves and promised everyone that everything would be fine. Is it ? Quit talking about units in Idaho we get it here and will be trapping and hunting year around before too long. We can already hunt private land year round for wolves. Tell the truth about what’s going on right in front of you. Walla walla? That’s close to the blues is everything working out great ?

So are you wrong or is bearpaw wrong? My earlier post was simply a verbatim quote from his outfitters website. 
https://bearpawoutfitters.com/idaho_elk_hunting_combo.html

[KFhunter]

Lol, you're a stalker

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[bearpaw]

Look no further than the Lolo zone in Idaho or the Yellowstone herd in MT for answers. Both of those herds used to provide some of the best elk hunting in the world, now the hunting seasons in those areas that once provided trophy animals and freezers full of meat have greatly reduced seasons and in some cases the seasons have been eliminated entirely.

The Northern Idaho Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho.

I live in the northern panhandle. He said the LOLO zone. We now have a December muzzleloader cow hunt in the panhandle due to so called depredation. What really happened is the elk were pushed into town. I did it the first year and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I had a group of 8-10 located doing same thing every day and chose to leave them alone this year we had plenty of elk meat from Montana and leftover from last season. They cows got shot to heck eventually anyways this year. I don’t personally think harvest numbers always reflect the health of the elk herd. In this case for the panhandle it’s the addition of a late season cow tag and hundreds of depredation tags for cows that go from August till December 31. If you can’t fill that tag just go to the store. Do you think all the successful cow harvest are indicative of a thriving elk herd? It’s not sustainable but what can fish and game do when the wolves push all the elk to town? If I remember correctly you thought all the ungulate problems revolved around habitat and wolves would only have minimal impacts. What do you think now ? Do you see any correlation between wolves and major declines in deer and elk in Washington? How about the blues?

So the Panhandle zone has lots of wolves and the lolo zone has lots of wolves.  Some claim the Panhandle is the top producing elk zone in Idaho. If they both have a good number of wolves wouldn't the difference in elk abundance be attributable to other factors? Habitat and forage availability??

 
 
The panhandle is not the top producing elk unit to start with. That’s beside the point but the unit I live in for last report success was like 11 or 12 percent it USED to run in the 20 plus percent zone. My other point was that the success rate is inflated due to new cow tags and a late cow season that didn’t even exist when success was 20 percent plus. The cow tag from August 1st to December 31 should be as close to guaranteeing a wild elk harvest as you can get. Even with that success had plummeted Idaho elk are doing ok thanks to very aggressive hunting and trapping. None of that really matters you always want to get in the weeds of areas with elk and wolves and the elk seem to be ok. Answer the question how have ungulates faired in your state after wolves? Washington has tons of habitat with very few deer and elk. Tell me how the blues elk are faring with wolves. You had the same arguments before Washington had a lot of wolves and promised everyone that everything would be fine. Is it ? Quit talking about units in Idaho we get it here and will be trapping and hunting year around before too long. We can already hunt private land year round for wolves. Tell the truth about what’s going on right in front of you. Walla walla? That’s close to the blues is everything working out great ?

So are you wrong or is bearpaw wrong? My earlier post was simply a verbatim quote from his outfitters website. 
https://bearpawoutfitters.com/idaho_elk_hunting_combo.html

Not everyone realizes it, but if you add harvest numbers that are readily available on the IDFG website, my quote is much more than just correct, I'm sure you know that too. I think Idaho guy was referring to success rate, he mentions success, it's true that the Panhandle does not have the highest hunter success rate!