Year round Bull Elk season

[Rainier10]

That sucks to hear, it’s all bad. But, it just as well could have been natives?  Bruce Richards (retired game warden of over 40 years), told me many stories of natives killing and leaving animals, they only took what fell in front of them. Made his veins bulge when he told the stories.  I would consider it all poaching.

I would bet a ton of money the two cows that were dead on my place this past winter were not natives.  They were either master hunters or a neighbor.

I would have had a dead deer on my place as well but when I saw a rig parked next to my fence I hiked in to the deer hotspot and found a father(50's) and son(20's) getting ready to pull the trigger on a small 2x3 deer.  They were pissed when I spoiled their hunt but really embarrassed to find out I was the owner of the property and the one that put up the sign that they parked next to.  "We thought this was still timber company land and someone was just trying to post it to keep us out."

My neighbor did end up with a dead deer on his place.  A neighbor just couldn't help himself and shot it.  Neighbor had cell game cams and called it in.  He didn't press charges but wanted the poacher to know he had robbed his wife of the opportunity to shoot a buck on their property because this guy shot it instead.

[Bowhunter3]

Rainier, have you seen this rampant non native poaching?  I’ve spent a lot of time in the woods and I see evidence once in a while, but not enough to say rampant.  Not calling you out here, just curious where I need to start hanging out more, I need poacher points!!

I had two elk shot on my property this year.  Turned them both in.  I assume they were shot by my neighbor filling his freezer or masterhunters hunting the DNR adjacent to me and the elk crossed the fence and died.  They just trespassed to retrieve them, deboned them and left the hide and bones on my place.   Last year my neighbor called in a poached 6 point bull elk shot on Wilson Creek road.  Two years ago I found a bull, no head but everything else still there about 100 yards off wilson creek road.  That same year in August my neighbor found a nice 6 point bull still in velvet shot and the entire left to rot.  Two or three years ago a member of the Tacoma SCI chapter called in a slaughter of cow elk in the colockum during the rifle season, maybe 13, I can't remember.  There was an article in the paper about it.  That's all in one GMU, 328 and most of it in a 9-15 square mile area.  That's not even 25% of the unit.  So yes I would say there is a huge problem.

There was another article last year about out of state hunters that shot a giant bull and were trying to take it out whole to their home state where it was legal and wouldn't be questioned.

There is not a doubt in my mind you could get 20 points a year if you camped out on my place from September to December and turned in trespassers and poachers.

Why don’t you camp out on your land and turn these poachers in?

[trophyhunt]

I believe 90% of non natives wish all poachers were hung by their privates! Not sure how we can convince the prosecutors to ramp up the penalties, heck, some counties are decriminalizing shop lifting in this, no responsibility for what you do times.  I was under the assumption that the east side judges and prosecutors were tougher, sounds like I was wrong.  Not sure why penalties don’t hurt, but again, besides never voting for democrats, what else can we do? 

[Rainier10]

Rainier, have you seen this rampant non native poaching?  I’ve spent a lot of time in the woods and I see evidence once in a while, but not enough to say rampant.  Not calling you out here, just curious where I need to start hanging out more, I need poacher points!!

I had two elk shot on my property this year.  Turned them both in.  I assume they were shot by my neighbor filling his freezer or masterhunters hunting the DNR adjacent to me and the elk crossed the fence and died.  They just trespassed to retrieve them, deboned them and left the hide and bones on my place.   Last year my neighbor called in a poached 6 point bull elk shot on Wilson Creek road.  Two years ago I found a bull, no head but everything else still there about 100 yards off wilson creek road.  That same year in August my neighbor found a nice 6 point bull still in velvet shot and the entire left to rot.  Two or three years ago a member of the Tacoma SCI chapter called in a slaughter of cow elk in the colockum during the rifle season, maybe 13, I can't remember.  There was an article in the paper about it.  That's all in one GMU, 328 and most of it in a 9-15 square mile area.  That's not even 25% of the unit.  So yes I would say there is a huge problem.

There was another article last year about out of state hunters that shot a giant bull and were trying to take it out whole to their home state where it was legal and wouldn't be questioned.

There is not a doubt in my mind you could get 20 points a year if you camped out on my place from September to December and turned in trespassers and poachers.

Why don’t you camp out on your land and turn these poachers in?

So to have as much land as I do unfortunately that means I have to work.  I show up to my place Friday and find a dead elk that wasn't there the Sunday before when I left.  I give permission to about 30-40 different people for all three seasons so I have more eyes on the place.  They run people off all the time so they can have access to my place, small price to pay for some great hunting ground.

I have personally caught multiple people red handed and prefer to go the education route since I am not there all the time and don't want my place trashed by some guy that was poaching and is now pissed off that he is getting penalized for it.

Most of the dead animals I find on my place are when I am planting trees, spraying weeds or fixing fences that someone has cut to drive their quad in and retrieve a poached animal.

[Bowhunter3]

Rainier, have you seen this rampant non native poaching?  I’ve spent a lot of time in the woods and I see evidence once in a while, but not enough to say rampant.  Not calling you out here, just curious where I need to start hanging out more, I need poacher points!!

I had two elk shot on my property this year.  Turned them both in.  I assume they were shot by my neighbor filling his freezer or masterhunters hunting the DNR adjacent to me and the elk crossed the fence and died.  They just trespassed to retrieve them, deboned them and left the hide and bones on my place.   Last year my neighbor called in a poached 6 point bull elk shot on Wilson Creek road.  Two years ago I found a bull, no head but everything else still there about 100 yards off wilson creek road.  That same year in August my neighbor found a nice 6 point bull still in velvet shot and the entire left to rot.  Two or three years ago a member of the Tacoma SCI chapter called in a slaughter of cow elk in the colockum during the rifle season, maybe 13, I can't remember.  There was an article in the paper about it.  That's all in one GMU, 328 and most of it in a 9-15 square mile area.  That's not even 25% of the unit.  So yes I would say there is a huge problem.

There was another article last year about out of state hunters that shot a giant bull and were trying to take it out whole to their home state where it was legal and wouldn't be questioned.

There is not a doubt in my mind you could get 20 points a year if you camped out on my place from September to December and turned in trespassers and poachers.

Why don’t you camp out on your land and turn these poachers in?

So to have as much land as I do unfortunately that means I have to work.  I show up to my place Friday and find a dead elk that wasn't there the Sunday before when I left.  I give permission to about 30-40 different people for all three seasons so I have more eyes on the place.  They run people off all the time so they can have access to my place, small price to pay for some great hunting ground.

I have personally caught multiple people red handed and prefer to go the education route since I am not there all the time and don't want my place trashed by some guy that was poaching and is now pissed off that he is getting penalized for it.

Most of the dead animals I find on my place are when I am planting trees, spraying weeds or fixing fences that someone has cut to drive their quad in and retrieve a poached animal.

Understood, was just curious. I would probably be met with the same time constraint. Gotta be frustrating for sure. Nice of you to provide access for so many folks. Hope they’re able to provide their time to help with repairs when needed.

[OutHouse]

I believe 90% of non natives wish all poachers were hung by their privates! Not sure how we can convince the prosecutors to ramp up the penalties, heck, some counties are decriminalizing shop lifting in this, no responsibility for what you do times.  I was under the assumption that the east side judges and prosecutors were tougher, sounds like I was wrong.  Not sure why penalties don’t hurt, but again, besides never voting for democrats, what else can we do?

Most game violations are considered low priority whether they are felony or misdemeanor/gross misdemeanor level. When they are in the misdemeanor category, those prosecutors have upwards of several hundred cases at any given time. They are more focused on domestic violence assaults and DUIs because of the greater impact those crimes have on people. At the felony level, the prosecutors have fewer cases (but still a lot) and again they are more concerned with prosecuting serious assaults, rapes, murders, what have you. I think it comes down to the amount of time a prosecutor has for his cases. They have to prioritize. I don't like it either but the tax payers would have to fund more prosecutors and defense attorneys if they expect a prosecutor to have time to vigorously go after these guys.

[Rainier10]

Rainier, have you seen this rampant non native poaching?  I’ve spent a lot of time in the woods and I see evidence once in a while, but not enough to say rampant.  Not calling you out here, just curious where I need to start hanging out more, I need poacher points!!

I had two elk shot on my property this year.  Turned them both in.  I assume they were shot by my neighbor filling his freezer or masterhunters hunting the DNR adjacent to me and the elk crossed the fence and died.  They just trespassed to retrieve them, deboned them and left the hide and bones on my place.   Last year my neighbor called in a poached 6 point bull elk shot on Wilson Creek road.  Two years ago I found a bull, no head but everything else still there about 100 yards off wilson creek road.  That same year in August my neighbor found a nice 6 point bull still in velvet shot and the entire left to rot.  Two or three years ago a member of the Tacoma SCI chapter called in a slaughter of cow elk in the colockum during the rifle season, maybe 13, I can't remember.  There was an article in the paper about it.  That's all in one GMU, 328 and most of it in a 9-15 square mile area.  That's not even 25% of the unit.  So yes I would say there is a huge problem.

There was another article last year about out of state hunters that shot a giant bull and were trying to take it out whole to their home state where it was legal and wouldn't be questioned.

There is not a doubt in my mind you could get 20 points a year if you camped out on my place from September to December and turned in trespassers and poachers.

Why don’t you camp out on your land and turn these poachers in?

So to have as much land as I do unfortunately that means I have to work.  I show up to my place Friday and find a dead elk that wasn't there the Sunday before when I left.  I give permission to about 30-40 different people for all three seasons so I have more eyes on the place.  They run people off all the time so they can have access to my place, small price to pay for some great hunting ground.

I have personally caught multiple people red handed and prefer to go the education route since I am not there all the time and don't want my place trashed by some guy that was poaching and is now pissed off that he is getting penalized for it.

Most of the dead animals I find on my place are when I am planting trees, spraying weeds or fixing fences that someone has cut to drive their quad in and retrieve a poached animal.

Understood, was just curious. I would probably be met with the same time constraint. Gotta be frustrating for sure. Nice of you to provide access for so many folks. Hope they’re able to provide their time to help with repairs when needed.

My wife wants me to quit buying more land, it really is a lot of work to maintain.  I don't have time to enjoy it because I am always working on it or trying to keep someone off of it.

The father son pair that I caught during deer season took away time I was spending with my father in law.  His health is failing and I was trying to get him on deer and I have to break away from that to go run off a couple of guys that saw the signs and just trespassed anyways.  In todays world of onX there is no excuse for being on the wrong land.

But back on topic I still think that poaching by non natives is a huge deal.

I totally get why it isn't a big deal to prosecutors.  They are spread thin and have to prioritize.  Do you want to help a guy that is pissed off that an elk got shot a father who's daughter was raped?  If it were my daughter I would want justice in the rape case before the elk poaching.  Of course I think there would be enough money for prosecutors and jails if they weren't making safe injection sites.  They already have safe injections sites they are called jails.

[idaho guy]

Exactly multiple deer and elk a week for two years and he gets house arrest monitoring.  That's one guy responsible for hundreds of animals poached.

How many others are out there only taking a couple deer or elk a year?  How many farmers are taking a few deer and elk that are eating their crops and giving them to their friends and family?  How many spike by two elk or how many 2 point deer are being  shot and snuck out of the woods or left to rot?

And are those guys worried about prosecution?  It is only a slap on the wrist for hundreds of deer and elk. What could they possibly do to a farmer who shoots 4 deer and 3 elk a year on his property that are damaging his crops?

I am here to say it is a huge problem.

You have the natives that have treaty rights saying they can harvest what they want.

At the same time you have non natives poaching knowing it is illegal but also knowing if they get caught nothing significant is going to happen to them.  If something significant happened to them you would fix half of the problem, the half that you legally have control over.

Unfortunately you have people complaining about the half that you have no control over and doing nothing about the half that you can control.

Like I said before people have this attitude because native or not there are certain people who will rape the resource till it’s gone. And using the wolf and fox analogy again, keeping the wolves out of the chicken house does no good when the fox is let in. So that is why people keep bringing up natives, because if we do away with all non native poaching(another major issue that needs to be heavily prosecuted)we still have a major 2 legged predator that may or may not be  decimating our elk and deer herds because there is no way to track or regulate them. Let them hunt but if the natives want anything left to hunt they better wake up and start issuing tags, even if they can get a ton of them, at least they will have numbers to make decisions off of to help the herd. Now all that matters is if there is a jerky order to fill or not. If tags are required wdfw can now enforce, even if it is to see that they have tags for the velvet bulls they are killing in June. Yes that’s right I said it, off the Rez be held accountable by our police, much like when we are on the Rez. Don’t know what’s stopping me from throwing a native pride hat on and killing anything anytime because I can’t say  I’ve ever seen wdfw checking for validation of tribe and hunting rights, unless they just know them all by name and vehicle description so there is no need to contact. I would be concerned about this if I care about the resource and was native.  I would want wdfw making sure I was legit and there wasn’t a bunch of us non native people slaying elk with Yakama nation bumper stickers.

So you think the number one priority is to revise the treaty and take away the natives rights, put rules in place for them to follow before we enforce the rules that are already in place for non natives and are being broken by non natives on a regular basis at an alarming rate?

How do you think you are going to enforce these new rules and limits you put on native harvest if you already can't enforce the rules that are in place for non natives?

   

   I dont think we should change treaties or try and dictate rules for tribes they are sovereign nations. With that said what some of these tribal members are doing is absurd and wanton waste of a very valuable renewable resource. There are tribes selling elk tags to white guys for 20k and up because they manage their game. They require an enrolled member to guide you on your overpriced elk tag providing valuable employment to tribal members.  It would be good for the tribes AND everyone else if they cooperated with state wildlife agencies and actually managed the herds for a better future. Most importantly it would be WAY better for those elk herds. You are right I cant control the abuse but I wont condone it either . The tribal hunting discussed here has no affect on me at all but its wrong in todays world of more people and less habitat. Just because I have a right does not mean I should exercise it. I have lots of rights I choose not to exercise because doing so is a bad idea.  Truth matters and saying "I cant control it" so I will deflect the blame at other bad actors will not solve the problem. You have to speak up and address the problem and encourage the tribe to come to the table with other state wildlife agencies. It is better for the tribe,every other hunter and most importantly the ELK. Some of these posts seem to have some kind of white "guilt"  or whatever you want to call it. Call a spade a spade and address the problem-ignoring it because you dont want to offend some group is not the answer. Address all the problems-tribal over harvest,poaching and predators and your elk might stand a chance.  Or you can ignore it and focus on 1 or 2 of the other issues and your elk are screwed.If nothing changes at least you can tell your grandkids you tried not that you just ignored it because you had no "control". You have a voice and I am not talking about bashing anyone. Actually controlling harvest BENEFITS the tribe more than anyone since they have the most opportunity to actually hunt the elk.

[trophyhunt]

Nailed it Idaho guy

[Bowhunter3]

  very well stated

[Platensek-po]

Exactly multiple deer and elk a week for two years and he gets house arrest monitoring.  That's one guy responsible for hundreds of animals poached.

How many others are out there only taking a couple deer or elk a year?  How many farmers are taking a few deer and elk that are eating their crops and giving them to their friends and family?  How many spike by two elk or how many 2 point deer are being  shot and snuck out of the woods or left to rot?

And are those guys worried about prosecution?  It is only a slap on the wrist for hundreds of deer and elk. What could they possibly do to a farmer who shoots 4 deer and 3 elk a year on his property that are damaging his crops?

I am here to say it is a huge problem.

You have the natives that have treaty rights saying they can harvest what they want.

At the same time you have non natives poaching knowing it is illegal but also knowing if they get caught nothing significant is going to happen to them.  If something significant happened to them you would fix half of the problem, the half that you legally have control over.

Unfortunately you have people complaining about the half that you have no control over and doing nothing about the half that you can control.

Like I said before people have this attitude because native or not there are certain people who will rape the resource till it’s gone. And using the wolf and fox analogy again, keeping the wolves out of the chicken house does no good when the fox is let in. So that is why people keep bringing up natives, because if we do away with all non native poaching(another major issue that needs to be heavily prosecuted)we still have a major 2 legged predator that may or may not be  decimating our elk and deer herds because there is no way to track or regulate them. Let them hunt but if the natives want anything left to hunt they better wake up and start issuing tags, even if they can get a ton of them, at least they will have numbers to make decisions off of to help the herd. Now all that matters is if there is a jerky order to fill or not. If tags are required wdfw can now enforce, even if it is to see that they have tags for the velvet bulls they are killing in June. Yes that’s right I said it, off the Rez be held accountable by our police, much like when we are on the Rez. Don’t know what’s stopping me from throwing a native pride hat on and killing anything anytime because I can’t say  I’ve ever seen wdfw checking for validation of tribe and hunting rights, unless they just know them all by name and vehicle description so there is no need to contact. I would be concerned about this if I care about the resource and was native.  I would want wdfw making sure I was legit and there wasn’t a bunch of us non native people slaying elk with Yakama nation bumper stickers.

So you think the number one priority is to revise the treaty and take away the natives rights, put rules in place for them to follow before we enforce the rules that are already in place for non natives and are being broken by non natives on a regular basis at an alarming rate?

How do you think you are going to enforce these new rules and limits you put on native harvest if you already can't enforce the rules that are in place for non natives?

   

   I dont think we should change treaties or try and dictate rules for tribes they are sovereign nations. With that said what some of these tribal members are doing is absurd and wanton waste of a very valuable renewable resource. There are tribes selling elk tags to white guys for 20k and up because they manage their game. They require an enrolled member to guide you on your overpriced elk tag providing valuable employment to tribal members.  It would be good for the tribes AND everyone else if they cooperated with state wildlife agencies and actually managed the herds for a better future. Most importantly it would be WAY better for those elk herds. You are right I cant control the abuse but I wont condone it either . The tribal hunting discussed here has no affect on me at all but its wrong in todays world of more people and less habitat. Just because I have a right does not mean I should exercise it. I have lots of rights I choose not to exercise because doing so is a bad idea.  Truth matters and saying "I cant control it" so I will deflect the blame at other bad actors will not solve the problem. You have to speak up and address the problem and encourage the tribe to come to the table with other state wildlife agencies. It is better for the tribe,every other hunter and most importantly the ELK. Some of these posts seem to have some kind of white "guilt"  or whatever you want to call it. Call a spade a spade and address the problem-ignoring it because you dont want to offend some group is not the answer. Address all the problems-tribal over harvest,poaching and predators and your elk might stand a chance.  Or you can ignore it and focus on 1 or 2 of the other issues and your elk are screwed.If nothing changes at least you can tell your grandkids you tried not that you just ignored it because you had no "control". You have a voice and I am not talking about bashing anyone. Actually controlling harvest BENEFITS the tribe more than anyone since they have the most opportunity to actually hunt the elk.

Sure. I also grew up with guys whose favorite saying was “closed waters are the best waters”, and poached deer like crazy with crossbows from their pickups. Some had lost fishing and hunting privileges and still did it. I was young and thought they were cool. Now I think they were just dumb crooks who basically never got
Punished and didn’t care. So if you aren’t going to punish the people who wantonly break the laws how are you going to encourage people who have the right to do it to
Stop? Basically the government has told them they don’t care and aren’t going to protect the resource, many on here say the same. So how can you come to the table and say you need to stop
Legally harvesting these animals but we are unwilling to stop
Illegal harvest?

[idaho guy]

Exactly multiple deer and elk a week for two years and he gets house arrest monitoring.  That's one guy responsible for hundreds of animals poached.

How many others are out there only taking a couple deer or elk a year?  How many farmers are taking a few deer and elk that are eating their crops and giving them to their friends and family?  How many spike by two elk or how many 2 point deer are being  shot and snuck out of the woods or left to rot?

And are those guys worried about prosecution?  It is only a slap on the wrist for hundreds of deer and elk. What could they possibly do to a farmer who shoots 4 deer and 3 elk a year on his property that are damaging his crops?

I am here to say it is a huge problem.

You have the natives that have treaty rights saying they can harvest what they want.

At the same time you have non natives poaching knowing it is illegal but also knowing if they get caught nothing significant is going to happen to them.  If something significant happened to them you would fix half of the problem, the half that you legally have control over.

Unfortunately you have people complaining about the half that you have no control over and doing nothing about the half that you can control.

Like I said before people have this attitude because native or not there are certain people who will rape the resource till it’s gone. And using the wolf and fox analogy again, keeping the wolves out of the chicken house does no good when the fox is let in. So that is why people keep bringing up natives, because if we do away with all non native poaching(another major issue that needs to be heavily prosecuted)we still have a major 2 legged predator that may or may not be  decimating our elk and deer herds because there is no way to track or regulate them. Let them hunt but if the natives want anything left to hunt they better wake up and start issuing tags, even if they can get a ton of them, at least they will have numbers to make decisions off of to help the herd. Now all that matters is if there is a jerky order to fill or not. If tags are required wdfw can now enforce, even if it is to see that they have tags for the velvet bulls they are killing in June. Yes that’s right I said it, off the Rez be held accountable by our police, much like when we are on the Rez. Don’t know what’s stopping me from throwing a native pride hat on and killing anything anytime because I can’t say  I’ve ever seen wdfw checking for validation of tribe and hunting rights, unless they just know them all by name and vehicle description so there is no need to contact. I would be concerned about this if I care about the resource and was native.  I would want wdfw making sure I was legit and there wasn’t a bunch of us non native people slaying elk with Yakama nation bumper stickers.

So you think the number one priority is to revise the treaty and take away the natives rights, put rules in place for them to follow before we enforce the rules that are already in place for non natives and are being broken by non natives on a regular basis at an alarming rate?

How do you think you are going to enforce these new rules and limits you put on native harvest if you already can't enforce the rules that are in place for non natives?

   

   I dont think we should change treaties or try and dictate rules for tribes they are sovereign nations. With that said what some of these tribal members are doing is absurd and wanton waste of a very valuable renewable resource. There are tribes selling elk tags to white guys for 20k and up because they manage their game. They require an enrolled member to guide you on your overpriced elk tag providing valuable employment to tribal members.  It would be good for the tribes AND everyone else if they cooperated with state wildlife agencies and actually managed the herds for a better future. Most importantly it would be WAY better for those elk herds. You are right I cant control the abuse but I wont condone it either . The tribal hunting discussed here has no affect on me at all but its wrong in todays world of more people and less habitat. Just because I have a right does not mean I should exercise it. I have lots of rights I choose not to exercise because doing so is a bad idea.  Truth matters and saying "I cant control it" so I will deflect the blame at other bad actors will not solve the problem. You have to speak up and address the problem and encourage the tribe to come to the table with other state wildlife agencies. It is better for the tribe,every other hunter and most importantly the ELK. Some of these posts seem to have some kind of white "guilt"  or whatever you want to call it. Call a spade a spade and address the problem-ignoring it because you dont want to offend some group is not the answer. Address all the problems-tribal over harvest,poaching and predators and your elk might stand a chance.  Or you can ignore it and focus on 1 or 2 of the other issues and your elk are screwed.If nothing changes at least you can tell your grandkids you tried not that you just ignored it because you had no "control". You have a voice and I am not talking about bashing anyone. Actually controlling harvest BENEFITS the tribe more than anyone since they have the most opportunity to actually hunt the elk.

Sure. I also grew up with guys whose favorite saying was “closed waters are the best waters”, and poached deer like crazy with crossbows from their pickups. Some had lost fishing and hunting privileges and still did it. I was young and thought they were cool. Now I think they were just dumb crooks who basically never got
Punished and didn’t care. So if you aren’t going to punish the people who wantonly break the laws how are you going to encourage people who have the right to do it to
Stop? Basically the government has told them they don’t care and aren’t going to protect the resource, many on here say the same. So how can you come to the table and say you need to stop
Legally harvesting these animals but we are unwilling to stop
Illegal harvest?

   

Wow you grew up with some real losers  I said address ALL the problems. I doubt poaching takes anywhere near unlimited tribal harvest but doesn’t matter what I think. You can address ALL the problems or you can focus on one exclusively and you will be guaranteed to fail. The elk lose

[Rainier10]

Something I can’t control is breathing under water, I can learn to swim. I can wish I could breath under water all I want or just learn to swim. Learning to swim is going to work way better than wishing I could breath under water.


Complain about the treaty until you are blue in the face and do nothing about the non native poaching that is just as prevalent and tell me how good you feel about fighting a fight you couldn’t win versus making a difference by getting your own house in order. Non native poaching is your house and is what you can control. Don’t complain about native poaching and turn a blind eye on the non native poaching.

[HillHound]

My main point was definitely not that we needed to change the treaty or limit harvest(another topic all together).... it was that if they actually track harvest then they could make decisions based on the herds needs to maintain the sustainability for THEM. What steps that would take  weather it’s having tags, limiting seasons, hard hit units off limits or limit harvest numbers, or nothing at all would obviously be up to the tribes so it would be their nation making changes if necessary not the treaty being pulled out from under their feet by the feds. Another way they could show it is not the majority abusing it, much like our user group. But with no Data we can all keep throwing crap at the wall and see what speculations stick. And yes in the mean time I will do my part and call everyone in I see breaking game laws. Even if they tell me they can do nothing and I am warned not to be to be harassing or hindering natives by taking down their plates and descriptions of their trucks while they are doing their ceremonial hunts. One of these days my info will be on someone they can prosecute and just maybe I will get some preference points

[Rainier10]

It’s not about saving the deer, elk or moose. If it were everyone of these guys saying there won’t be any ungulates in the future would put in for every permit they can and then not fill them. But that’s not what happens. Most put in for permits and buy OTC tags and then everything they can to get one because they are allowed to with that permit.

And then they say,
“That native is allowed to shoot as many elk as he wants and he shouldn’t do it just because he is allowed to. I’m only allowed to shoot one a year and I do everything I can to fill that tag and even offer help to anyone that wants it so they can fill their tag.”

I honestly could shoot an elk every year and help 30 more get taken each year until the resource runs out and it would be perfectly legal but I don’t because it’s not good for the elk.

I choose to do what I can. I improve the habitat I own, 8,000 trees planted, three water sources created, hundreds of gallons of noxious weed killer sprayed each year, limit harvest on my property, aggressively predator hunt and limit vehicle traffic in spring when calves and fawns are being born.

Do I wish some natives were more concerned about the resource? Yes but I focus my time and energy on what I can change and I can see my efforts paying off every year.