1x scopes/red dots

[JakeLand]

Kinda funny how it’s up to a vote yet my bird in the nest said it wasn’t going to pass days before….he’s batting 1,000. Now

[GASoline71]

Everyone knows worsening eyesight, hearing loss, joint pain and muscle loss are part of the age-related natural process.  When ya cant do it anymore, ya just cant do it.  Current archery equipment and muzzleloaders are anything but primitive.  I cant believe how many grown men want to be accommodated to make things easier for themselves, regardless of reasoning.   

So as you age, you are not allowed to use a walker, cane, wheel chair or other mobility device to help you move around??  Maybe you should just sit in your bed and die because you not 21 again.

Aging hunters have options to hunt modern season with whatever magnification scope they want.  My eyes suck, therefore I just have to get closer using open sights on my muzzleloader. I don't see any benefit of a 1x or red dot scope if you still have to get closer with aging eyes.

If it were up to me there wouldn't be any modern 209 primers used in muzzleloaders either... but here we are.

Gary

[jrebel]

Everyone knows worsening eyesight, hearing loss, joint pain and muscle loss are part of the age-related natural process.  When ya cant do it anymore, ya just cant do it.  Current archery equipment and muzzleloaders are anything but primitive.  I cant believe how many grown men want to be accommodated to make things easier for themselves, regardless of reasoning.   

So as you age, you are not allowed to use a walker, cane, wheel chair or other mobility device to help you move around??  Maybe you should just sit in your bed and die because you not 21 again.

Aging hunters have options to hunt modern season with whatever magnification scope they want.  My eyes suck, therefore I just have to get closer using open sights on my muzzleloader. I don't see any benefit of a 1x or red dot scope if you still have to get closer with aging eyes.

If it were up to me there wouldn't be any modern 209 primers used in muzzleloaders either... but here we are.

Gary

I respect others opinions.....though I don't agree nor do I understand why so many people are opposed to advancing the sport.  In my mind, the decision to accept or decline advances....should be based on whether or not it will substantially increase harvest numbers.  The reality is this....with all the advancements in our sport, the harvest numbers have remained relatively stable.  A 1x scope on a muzzleloader (in my opinion), is not going to increase harvest numbers for muzzleloaders.  It may increase participation in that user group, which is not a bad thing because it will take away from the modern or archery season.  This will help disperse hunters and make the woods less crowded for the busier user groups.....(though I don't think it would be noticeable to most).   

My point being....that simply allowing 1x scopes will not increase harvest numbers, thus in my mind it should be a welcome advancement in the sport. 

For the guys / gals that say "no" for the only reason that they don't like to see advancement / specific to technology in our hunting sports.....I don't agree with this stance.  Advancing our sport is not always a bad thing....it is simply change and most people are uncomfortable with change.   

[Farmer72]

I just like the people that are traditionalist that don't believe a scope should be on a muzzleloader. I guess traditional is pre 1855 since that is when the Malcolm scope came out. Either way I am under the same mindset as jrebel that looking through my peep sight and a 1X optic only gains me a possible finer aiming point for a cleaner kill.

If you don't like 1X optics or 209 primers that don't change anything you don't have to use them. But that is just my opinion.

[dreamingbig]

Everyone knows worsening eyesight, hearing loss, joint pain and muscle loss are part of the age-related natural process.  When ya cant do it anymore, ya just cant do it.  Current archery equipment and muzzleloaders are anything but primitive.  I cant believe how many grown men want to be accommodated to make things easier for themselves, regardless of reasoning.   

So as you age, you are not allowed to use a walker, cane, wheel chair or other mobility device to help you move around??  Maybe you should just sit in your bed and die because you not 21 again.

Aging hunters have options to hunt modern season with whatever magnification scope they want.  My eyes suck, therefore I just have to get closer using open sights on my muzzleloader. I don't see any benefit of a 1x or red dot scope if you still have to get closer with aging eyes.

If it were up to me there wouldn't be any modern 209 primers used in muzzleloaders either... but here we are.

Gary

I respect others opinions.....though I don't agree nor do I understand why so many people are opposed to advancing the sport.  In my mind, the decision to accept or decline advances....should be based on whether or not it will substantially increase harvest numbers.  The reality is this....with all the advancements in our sport, the harvest numbers have remained relatively stable.  A 1x scope on a muzzleloader (in my opinion), is not going to increase harvest numbers for muzzleloaders.  It may increase participation in that user group, which is not a bad thing because it will take away from the modern or archery season.  This will help disperse hunters and make the woods less crowded for the busier user groups.....(though I don't think it would be noticeable to most).   

My point being....that simply allowing 1x scopes will not increase harvest numbers, thus in my mind it should be a welcome advancement in the sport. 

For the guys / gals that say "no" for the only reason that they don't like to see advancement / specific to technology in our hunting sports.....I don't agree with this stance.  Advancing our sport is not always a bad thing....it is simply change and most people are uncomfortable with change.

Making a muzzleloader into a single shot rifle makes no sense to me.  If you want to use a rifle then hunt modern.

We don’t have the opportunity in this state to allow muzzleloader technology to increase.

I also think electronic bow sights should not be allowed.


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[jrebel]

Everyone knows worsening eyesight, hearing loss, joint pain and muscle loss are part of the age-related natural process.  When ya cant do it anymore, ya just cant do it.  Current archery equipment and muzzleloaders are anything but primitive.  I cant believe how many grown men want to be accommodated to make things easier for themselves, regardless of reasoning.   

So as you age, you are not allowed to use a walker, cane, wheel chair or other mobility device to help you move around??  Maybe you should just sit in your bed and die because you not 21 again.

Aging hunters have options to hunt modern season with whatever magnification scope they want.  My eyes suck, therefore I just have to get closer using open sights on my muzzleloader. I don't see any benefit of a 1x or red dot scope if you still have to get closer with aging eyes.

If it were up to me there wouldn't be any modern 209 primers used in muzzleloaders either... but here we are.

Gary

I respect others opinions.....though I don't agree nor do I understand why so many people are opposed to advancing the sport.  In my mind, the decision to accept or decline advances....should be based on whether or not it will substantially increase harvest numbers.  The reality is this....with all the advancements in our sport, the harvest numbers have remained relatively stable.  A 1x scope on a muzzleloader (in my opinion), is not going to increase harvest numbers for muzzleloaders.  It may increase participation in that user group, which is not a bad thing because it will take away from the modern or archery season.  This will help disperse hunters and make the woods less crowded for the busier user groups.....(though I don't think it would be noticeable to most).   

My point being....that simply allowing 1x scopes will not increase harvest numbers, thus in my mind it should be a welcome advancement in the sport. 

For the guys / gals that say "no" for the only reason that they don't like to see advancement / specific to technology in our hunting sports.....I don't agree with this stance.  Advancing our sport is not always a bad thing....it is simply change and most people are uncomfortable with change.

Making a muzzleloader into a single shot rifle makes no sense to me.  If you want to use a rifle then hunt modern.

We don’t have the opportunity in this state to allow muzzleloader technology to increase.

I also think electronic bow sights should not be allowed.


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Please give me an example of how a 1x scope turns a muzzleloader into a single shot rifle??  This is the inherent bias I think people have and it is 100% unfounded / unsupported by fact.  Have you shot a 1x scope before...red dot or scope?   Do any of your current hunting rifles have 1x scopes on them?  If the 1x scope was that magical, why do they not mas produce them and sell them like hot cakes?

I ask somewhat rhetorically....but am also very curious what I am missing.  I do have a couple 1x scopes and can definitively tell you my muzzy is not a single shot rifle with it. 



As for the bow site....well, I can make an argument both ways.  I really don't have a dog in the fight, and yes, I am an avid bow hunter.  It won't make harvest numbers increase so I wouldn't mind if it was adopted.  I also wouldn't buy one because my handheld rangefinder works fine.  I range items from my stands and know what range to shoot before the animal gets there.  If I'm stalking an animal, I range the animal and then items close by to give me a rough estimate.  I keep my single pin site set at 30 and can shoot 0-40 with very little hold differences so I just wouldn't spend the money on one.  Anything over 40, I should have plenty of time to range them with my handheld....otherwise I shouldn't be shooting at them in the first place. 

Back to the 1x scopes though because that is what we were talking about first. 

[lonedave]

I get the issue of poor eyesight as we age....I'll be 64 this season and my eyes have steadily gotten worse over the last few years.  That said, allowing 1X scopes or red dot sights during ML seasons gets a big NO from me.  I do find it a little funny that people say they make no difference and then go on to say they allow for finer sighting or better sighting during low light conditions (which they do).  Also, if there is no improvement, why waste your money on them?  I've personally resigned myself to going back to modern firearms completely when I finally can't see both the front and rear sights on my cap and flintlocks.  Until then, I'll just keep getting close, like the 30 foot shot on one of my largest mulies last September.

[Damnimissed]

1x scopes and red dots = quick target acquisition and much more precisely placed shots. This equals more dead elk. I would’ve had a good handful more of mature bulls if I had a 1x scope, 100%. Even with a front globe, you still have to line up and center front and rear sights. Removing that element is advantageous. We don’t need any more advancements in muzzleloader season. You’re not gonna change my mind.

[dreamingbig]

How do you eat an elephant?  How do you turn a primitive muzzleloader into a single shot rifle?

Side note: I listened to the Friday afternoon meeting today.  We are doomed with the 3 new appointments sprinkled into Baker and Smith.  None of them have any idea what the North American model conservation is, how we recovered game populations of what the heck their mandate is…. I came away with the sense that they feel it is their duty to continue to strip away hunting opportunity and cement the new mandate.  Now go hug a predator and feel better about yourself.  The ungulates are doomed.  The tribes better step up to the plate.

Don’t believe what I am selling?  Listen to the commission ask questions about wolves and grazing allotments.  Paraphrasing here but it was something like “can’t we just not put the cattle by the wolves?”  Keep them separate and distant?  Should we try non lethal methods only on. WDFW owned land?”  It was a hard listen but a necessary listen.  Then I went back to planning my move out of state.


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[h2ofowlr]

1x scopes and red dots = quick target acquisition and much more precisely placed shots. This equals more dead elk. I would’ve had a good handful more of mature bulls if I had a 1x scope, 100%. Even with a front globe, you still have to line up and center front and rear sights. Removing that element is advantageous. We don’t need any more advancements in muzzleloader season. You’re not gonna change my mind.

May also mean less crippled or loss animals.  I know I have had a bad shot on a nice buck with my muzzy.

[huntnnw]

that is BS! that means more people getting involved in muzzy seasons then adding a dot and shooting further cause they think they can and ending up in more wounded animals. Some on here must have never shot a 1x dot scope ! if you don't think you can shoot further than you havent used one. Leave muzzy alone and the way it is you need better sights etc take up rifle hunting..unbelievable

[jrebel]

1x scopes and red dots = quick target acquisition and much more precisely placed shots. This equals more dead elk. I would’ve had a good handful more of mature bulls if I had a 1x scope, 100%. Even with a front globe, you still have to line up and center front and rear sights. Removing that element is advantageous. We don’t need any more advancements in muzzleloader season. You’re not gonna change my mind.

Precise shot placement…..maybe!!  But is that a bad thing??   Quicker sight acquisition, you couldn’t be more wrong.   If this was the cas more brush guns would be wielding scopes.  Open sights offer quicker site acquisition for the average hunter that doesn’t shoulder a scopes rifle on a regular basis. 

Because I know you will argue that point….let’s assume your correct.  We aren’t talking a significant amount of time.  We are talking seconds…..likely less than a couple seconds.  How is that an advantage that’s gonna make a significant difference.   

I’m not trying to change your mind.  I’m merely looking for a reasonable argument to not allow them.  Most the arguments I hear are nothing more than, My opinion is…..   but they have no facts or reasons otherwise.  What the arguments do have are usually false propaganda such as “scopes have quicker sight acquisition,” which is simply not true. 

[jrebel]

that is BS! that means more people getting involved in muzzy seasons then adding a dot and shooting further cause they think they can and ending up in more wounded animals. Some on here must have never shot a 1x dot scope ! if you don't think you can shoot further than you havent used one. Leave muzzy alone and the way it is you need better sights etc take up rifle hunting..unbelievable

What’s so unbelievable.   Most people can’t hit a pie plate at 200 yards with a modern rifle with a 3-9 power scope and you want one to believe a 1x scope is gonna make the average hunter a sniper with a muzzleloader. 

To me that’s unbelievable.   And for the record…..I shoot a 1x scopes muzzy at the range and hope to take a bear this year with it.   My max range is 150-180 yards depending on conditions.  I can do that with my peep site so to me there really isn’t much of an advantage.   

[huntnnw]

I was shooting 250 yards with a 1x dot and if i were elk hunting 300 wouldnt of been out of the question. Id never shoot that far with a peep sight ever. Keep this crap outta primitive weapon hunts. Dont like it use a rifle.  Also with advancements in optics and rangefinders you can build a turret and dial your muzzy wouldnt even have to hold over anymore

[GWP]

While I am against scopes, and I was against 209 primers, I am working on a deal for a REALLY nice, and ‘modern’, muzzy. If it goes through I will be selling my Hawkins style 50, and my ‘newish’ in line, and the caps that go with them.
The new one is 209, and it has a scope rail on it. Yes, if scopes are allowed I will put one on it. And yes, they are an advantage. I will take it.
Do I like the rule change? Nope.
I have had handguns without a dot scope then put one on in 1x and 1.5x. Faster and more precise. Absolutely. Hands down. The only thing better is maybe a 2x or more scope.
If those got allowed I could see me putting an EER scope in the ‘scout’ position on the barrel.