Shotgun advice desperately needed

[woodswalker]

You might want to look for a used 870 "Wingmaster" instead of an Express. In my opinion they are much smoother than the express. !2 is very versatile.
Carl

the express smooths up after a few hundred rounds.  Or a few muddy duck hunts.   

[bobcat]

You can shoot a 20 gauge load out of a 12 gauge.

 
Uh, I think I know what you are trying to say Bobcat, but maybe you should clarify....

Well, yeah, I figured it was obvious, but maybe not     I would consider 1 ounce of shot a 20 gauge load. That is usually a maximum load in the 20 gauge, or if you do get the 1 1/8 ounce loads they're called "magnums" and are pretty slow. In a 12 gauge a 1 ounce load is usually labeled "dove/quail" or as a target load.

[Pathfinder101]

You can shoot a 20 gauge load out of a 12 gauge.

 
Uh, I think I know what you are trying to say Bobcat, but maybe you should clarify....

Well, yeah, I figured it was obvious, but maybe not     I would consider 1 ounce of shot a 20 gauge load. That is usually a maximum load in the 20 gauge, or if you do get the 1 1/8 ounce loads they're called "magnums" and are pretty slow. In a 12 gauge a 1 ounce load is usually labeled "dove/quail" or as a target load.

I knew what you meant Bobcat, but don't forget, Maggie is asking because he is buying his first shotgun.  Just figured you would want to clarify...

[Stevo539]

12  ga will not tear up your birds unless you use the wrong size shot and/or choke for the job.  Jackalope's advice is right-on there.

If you want something extremely quick and light handling, then go for the 20 ga.

12 ga is more universal/common.  If you're only going to have one scattergun go for the 12.

Wood stock is just fine and surprisingly lighter than most economy synthetic versions.  They've held up being used in the feild for hundreds of years.  The advantages that synthetics have are durability and that they are stable in changing humidity.  This trait (stable) is more important in rifles than shotguns.

I highly recommend that whatever gun you pick, go for one with the screw in chokes.

Steve

[WDFW-SUX]

870 wingmaster all the way. I ve one with a half million rounds through it and its still ticking

[Wacenturion]

Smaller gauges like a 20 and a more open choke like IMP. for grouse and MOD for pheasants is a better choice. 

Personally my upland guns are 28 gauges that come in at 6 lbs. even.  Fast and deadly within their effective range.  Typically, most hunters pack too large, too heavy and too choked, like in full around for upland birds.  Sure they kill em, but you get to feast on blown to hell whatever you shoot.

Smaller gauges are much lighter if you seek out the right gun, and the shells weigh less.....a real joy to pack all day chasing birds.  An 870 20 gauge with interchangeable chokes would be a good choice for bird hunting and allow you to choke the gun according to the bird you're hunting.

The only time I use a 12 gauge anymore is turkey hunting...although I just bought an 870 SPS Camo 20 gauge before the season.  Patterns every bit as well at the range I shoot at (35 yards. and under) as the 12 as far as killing a gobbler at that range.  Much lighter to pack I might add.
Smaller gauges will also make you a better shot over time....JMHO.

[Dakota Dogman]

Plenty of decent advice so far.. still I'll through in  as pheasants are my passion.

Start with the gun of choice... 870's are fine; express are a little ugly in my opinion, but they work well.  Wingmasters are a whole lot nicer to look at usually.  Also in the running Win. model 12.  Obviously used, but a better gun (my opinion) and a bit of class.  Odd option is the Ithaca 37 / Browning BPS... they work excellent and often are lighter than the others.  I'd personally avoid mossburg & the Benelli Nova.   

What fits you well?  More important than brand loyalty.  Close your eyes and mount the shotgun in a swinging motion.  Open your eyes and see how much of the barrel is in sight?  I prefer only the bead.  No bead, gun will shoot low.  Lots of barrel; gun will shoot high.  SKB has the best fit for me. You can learn on any gun, but a good fitting gun will make it easier.

Caliber... 12 is the norm.  With a 20 you give up about 5-10 yards of "effective" range.  You can kill just as far, and for most guys they won't notice the range difference; but all things being equal the pattern gets thin faster with a 20 at long ranges.  The trade off; a lighter gun means you will be ready to shoot faster; thus you will be taking closer shots which you are more likely to hit.

Thus the magic of the 16, carries like a 20, hits like a 12.  Shells are a bit harder to come by, but the reality is that isn't much of an issue unless your going to get into a weekly trap league. 

Shot size / load size... for pheasants I perfer 1.25 oz of #4's.  I know many will disagree but for the last 6 years I lived in SD that load (out of 12, 20 or 16) took over 100 pheasants a year for me.  Pretty hard for me to change what I know works for me.  As mentioned pheasants are tough tough birds and I have seen too many birds lost to 6's for my taste.  I want shock value, drop the bird for my dogs.  Under 1.25 oz, the # of pattern of #4 pellets gets too thin.  Some whine about kick, but it doesn't bother me & my 20 is light. 

Oh & choke... get something in the IC / Mod range & forget it.  Unless your doing clays the difference is minimal.  I shot Sporting clays with a sxs & Mod/Full for years quite effectively.  Most chokes can be openned up for $30 - $50.

Biggest challenge to a new bird hunter... not treating the shotgun like a rifle.  The gun is not to be still, ever.  Swing through your target.  Start the bead behind it, move through and as the bead passes the beak pull the trigger... but keep the gun moving!  Too many guys either stop their swing, or pull the trigger when they get to the wings and only bust tail feathers. 

If I was in your shoes I'd look around a few shops before making up my mind.  The other day I saw an 870 Rem. 16 guage, a classy older gun, with a few tails to tell, for under $200.  I've already had my fun for the spring, otherwise...   

God BLess,

P.S. if the upland bird bug bites you will end up with a side by side in the end! 

[ICEMAN]

Great post Dakota Dogman!

[Intruder]

No question the 870 12 gauge is going to be one of if not the most versatile shotguns you can own.  It'll do everything from doves to geese and turkeys by adjusting loads and chokes.  Ammo is generally cheaper due to quantities produced.  Reloading them is more expensive due to the increased amount of shot and powder loaded... but that is not a huge factor. 

As far as a 20 gauge being too small for pheasants.... no offense, but that's pure baloney.  I've shot hundreds upon hundreds of pheasants with a 20.  A 20 is my primary upland gun.  Depending on the gun a 20 will also often offer the advantage of being lighter, faster handling and delivering less recoil.  Your biggest disadvantage of a 20 is limited shot charge with larger shot which really comes into play on waterfowl. 

[Wacenturion]

No question the 870 12 gauge is going to be one of if not the most versatile shotguns you can own.  It'll do everything from doves to geese and turkeys by adjusting loads and chokes.  Ammo is generally cheaper due to quantities produced.  Reloading them is more expensive due to the increased amount of shot and powder loaded... but that is not a huge factor. 

As far as a 20 gauge being too small for pheasants.... no offense, but that's pure baloney.  I've shot hundreds upon hundreds of pheasants with a 20.  A 20 is my primary upland gun.  Depending on the gun a 20 will also often offer the advantage of being lighter, faster handling and delivering less recoil.  Your biggest disadvantage of a 20 is limited shot charge with larger shot which really comes into play on waterfowl. 

Would second that.  When I had setters years ago in college and when I lived in the basin (early 70's to the mid 80's), I used 28 gauges choked skeet behind my dogs.  It was rare to miss a pheasant with those guns.  Of course I was shooting within 15-25 yards.  Quick and deadly.....pheasants didn't have a chance.  Neither did huns, chukars, and quail that held for a point.  Even went to using them every now and then in the duck blind....of course shooting at feet  down in close birds...deadly.

[magnanimous_j]

Thanks for all the great advice.

I think this time I'll follow the popular opinion and go for the 12. I like the idea of the workhorse gun. If I do really get hooked on the birdies, I really love the feel of those over/under shotties. Maybe a 16 gauge. But I'm getting ahead of myself there.

I'll take a couple weeks and scope out the sunday paper ads and try to score the best deal on the 870 express

[littlebuf]

go check out seattleguns.org also, theres a lot of stuff on there but it can go fast sometimes

[littlebuf]

http://www.seattleguns.traffictestbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4089

[littlebuf]

another good one

http://www.seattleguns.traffictestbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3994

[magnanimous_j]

That baretta is gorgeous.  A bit rich for my blood though. someday