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Author Topic: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS  (Read 37146 times)

Offline Bowhunter3

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #135 on: October 20, 2022, 07:36:21 AM »
What an embarrassing thread to start. Especially with no knowledge (self admitted)  of units overran with does. Keep on paying the department you’re bitching about just to rip up the tags :chuckle: 

Offline boneaddict

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #136 on: October 20, 2022, 07:40:04 AM »
I’m sitting here waiting for light so not going to spend much time.  300, I think you just described my existence.

Fish…..no, not a specific post like you are thinking.    The two posts that did it were people asking for help because they haven’t seen a deer and of course I’m out and about occasionally and note that wow, the populations are really really down.  I’m looking at range that could carry a whole lot more of game.   
Obviously I find game and have shown enough photo evidence to not be completely full of crap, or at least fairly tuned in. 

Damn I’m already putting myself behind time.   Good post. 

Offline boneaddict

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #137 on: October 20, 2022, 07:42:53 AM »
It was a bad conclusion to come to Bow. I assumed that all the westside guys wouldn’t be driving to the Methow if they had deer coming out their kazzu, especially with gas costing 6 bucks a gallon.    :chuckle:   That buys a lot of black angus compared to eating one of those sage brush stinking does. 

Offline Bowhunter3

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #138 on: October 20, 2022, 07:54:06 AM »
It was a bad conclusion to come to Bow. I assumed that all the westside guys wouldn’t be driving to the Methow if they had deer coming out their kazzu, especially with gas costing 6 bucks a gallon.    :chuckle:   That buys a lot of black angus compared to eating one of those sage brush stinking does.

You spend enough each time you travel to the east side to take your pictures to buy a lot of angus?

Offline KFhunter

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #139 on: October 20, 2022, 07:57:14 AM »
I'm a little bit older now so I have seen some of the changes....

You used to get razzed and/or made fun of if you were a doe shooter, no one in camp shot does back in the day, not even kids, even if you could.  Of course, you wouldn't be caught dead rolling into camp with a man-bra for your binoculars or ladies half chaps.  Things have changed!

I remember the hunting mags pushing doe shooting back in the day, it was entirely foreign to us in the West but they kept pushing their Eastern whitetail stuff on us, including climbing into a tree, clothes made to look like a tree (and then put your hunter orange over top of it, about as stupid as it gets) and "scent blocking" sprays.  I guarantee some of you still have your butt-out tool and likely carry it with you but you won't admit to it.     

Eventually, the everyone-gets-a trophy-crowd came along and they think that somehow our youth won't be happy unless they shoot something and doe shooting became a thing.  Personally, I think it was from the increase in constant kids sports, the kids would only have a day or two to hunt instead of the season, with the men in camp learning and apprenticing.  Now, guys can't leave the truck without a tacticool 1st aid kit and a satellite messenger beacon, they have no traditional skills.

As far as predators go, every house in the country you walked in to had a .22 or a .410 in the corner for anything, and I mean anything that threatened the chickens.  You can use your imagination here, 4-legged and winged, it didn't matter.  The same thing happened in the hunting woods too, that's why we didn't have a predator problem 30 years ago, in fact if someone even saw a cougar it was pretty rare.     

I know it won't change back again.  Just know that your Grandpa and Great Uncle's would mock you relentlessly if they could see you hunt now days.  Between jokes about your outfit and your scope with the big knobs on it, they would get a bigger buck (with iron sights) then you, drag it out by themselves, and throw it on the top of a rig and drive it right through the middle of town waving to the folks on the side of the road as they went by.  All of this in wool or denim pants with nothing other then a sandwich in their pocket and an extra shell or two.     

Some things are coming full circle, many hunters are embracing the old ways

Old school.wool is back in

Camo patterns are out

People are getting scolded for shooting does (the whole point of this thread)

I ain't climbed in a tree in years

I often hunt with iron sights for bear and cougar, and deer is open sights but archery

Kid's sports is an excellent point, mine all played sports but they still got their bucks  ;)

No one has shot a doe, never allowed it, they'd eat their tags or get a buck....they've done both


Offline GWP

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #140 on: October 20, 2022, 08:00:05 AM »
I'm a little bit older now so I have seen some of the changes....

You used to get razzed and/or made fun of if you were a doe shooter, no one in camp shot does back in the day, not even kids, even if you could.  Of course, you wouldn't be caught dead rolling into camp with a man-bra for your binoculars or ladies half chaps.  Things have changed!

I remember the hunting mags pushing doe shooting back in the day, it was entirely foreign to us in the West but they kept pushing their Eastern whitetail stuff on us, including climbing into a tree, clothes made to look like a tree (and then put your hunter orange over top of it, about as stupid as it gets) and "scent blocking" sprays.  I guarantee some of you still have your butt-out tool and likely carry it with you but you won't admit to it.     

Eventually, the everyone-gets-a trophy-crowd came along and they think that somehow our youth won't be happy unless they shoot something and doe shooting became a thing.  Personally, I think it was from the increase in constant kids sports, the kids would only have a day or two to hunt instead of the season, with the men in camp learning and apprenticing.  Now, guys can't leave the truck without a tacticool 1st aid kit and a satellite messenger beacon, they have no traditional skills.

As far as predators go, every house in the country you walked in to had a .22 or a .410 in the corner for anything, and I mean anything that threatened the chickens.  You can use your imagination here, 4-legged and winged, it didn't matter.  The same thing happened in the hunting woods too, that's why we didn't have a predator problem 30 years ago, in fact if someone even saw a cougar it was pretty rare.     

I know it won't change back again.  Just know that your Grandpa and Great Uncle's would mock you relentlessly if they could see you hunt now days.  Between jokes about your outfit and your scope with the big knobs on it, they would get a bigger buck (with iron sights) then you, drag it out by themselves, and throw it on the top of a rig and drive it right through the middle of town waving to the folks on the side of the road as they went by.  All of this in wool or denim pants with nothing other then a sandwich in their pocket and an extra shell or two.     

The generalizations you put in there as ‘absolutes’ of how things ‘used to be’ do not correlate to my experiences. Perhaps in YOUR camp it was that way.
I am ‘fairly’ certain I am older than you, so maybe that all happened after I stopped being ‘part of the group’ and hunted on my own, but in the camps I was in any deer was good. The trophy hunters went for horns, the meat hunters went for either.
Cuterebra are NOT cute!

Offline kirkl

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #141 on: October 20, 2022, 08:14:46 AM »
It was a bad conclusion to come to Bow. I assumed that all the westside guys wouldn’t be driving to the Methow if they had deer coming out their kazzu, especially with gas costing 6 bucks a gallon.    :chuckle:   That buys a lot of black angus compared to eating one of those sage brush stinking does.

You spend enough each time you travel to the east side to take your pictures to buy a lot of angus?

LMAO, do you even know where Bone lives?

Offline nwwanderer

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #142 on: October 20, 2022, 09:08:04 AM »
Bone lives in the desert and finds things many are jealous of, keep it up bone, thanks.  Of the 6 million or so deer harvested in the USA each year about half are does.  No way to apply one management rule across Washington, do your homework, the variations are staggering and always in flux.  Oh, by the way the meeting on Vashon island loves the discord.

Offline buckfvr

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #143 on: October 20, 2022, 09:19:48 AM »

The generalizations you put in there as ‘absolutes’ of how things ‘used to be’ do not correlate to my experiences. Perhaps in YOUR camp it was that way.
I am ‘fairly’ certain I am older than you, so maybe that all happened after I stopped being ‘part of the group’ and hunted on my own, but in the camps I was in any deer was good. The trophy hunters went for horns, the meat hunters went for either.

As far back as I can remember, my dad and uncles hunted for meat most times as they, being construction workers back in the 60's usually meant slow times for work in the winters.  If work was plentiful, they were all buck hunters, ya, they hunted bucks, not trophies.  There were far more mature bucks and far less hunters then so most times the bucks they did kill would be considered trophies by todays hunters, even though they weren't actually "trophies" even back then. 

Fast forward 40-50 years and you encounter a generation of hunters and non hunters who have put a negative spin on the term "trophy hunter", to the point they actually spit it off their tongues for the fowl taste it leaves them .   Even here on a hunting site, trophy is usually used as a derogatory negative almost insult.  If you kill a mature buck on here, youre a trophy hunter even though 99% of the bucks so called dont actually reach that officially.  I admit, I prefer to hunt mature animals WHEN THEY ARE AVAILABLE which is not always, and matures can be in limited supplies by regions and conditions and events (blue tongue, fire, etc.) making it less likely for success.

I do not, never have hunted doe, it just seems like nothing but killing, no hunt skill necessary.  Same goes for spikes and forkies, maybe if they were more wily and not running with mom/sis, they may stoke some interest,but they dont. 

I think for here, if you cant take the ridicule, dont be so quick to share stuff.  Some folks get pleasure from poking at others.   :twocents:

Offline Ridgeratt

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #144 on: October 20, 2022, 09:28:40 AM »

Fast forward 40-50 years and you encounter a generation of hunters and non hunters who have put a negative spin on the term "trophy hunter", to the point they actually spit it off their tongues for the fowl taste it leaves them .   Even here on a hunting site, trophy is usually used as a derogatory negative almost insult.  If you kill a mature buck on here, youre a trophy hunter even though 99% of the bucks so called dont actually reach that officially.  I admit, I prefer to hunt mature animals WHEN THEY ARE AVAILABLE which is not always, and matures can be in limited supplies by regions and conditions and events (blue tongue, fire, etc.) making it less likely for success.
 



The other term: Is that a "Shooter" Any legal buck is a candidate. But to poll the forum for permission is insane. Like others have said the deer we shot back in the 70's would most likely be considered trophy bucks by todays measure. and they were considered "meat deer" horns were sawed off and thrown in a pile.

Bone I marvel at the quality/quantity of deer you post on this forum. You are posting animals that most people will never see. I salute you. :bow:
« Last Edit: October 20, 2022, 10:48:01 AM by Ridgeratt »

Offline boneaddict

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #145 on: October 20, 2022, 10:27:06 AM »
Quote
To be so egotistical to think I am talking about him specifically is laughable......well unless he has a guilty conscious.  One that sits so high on the pedestal to think his way of hunting is the only way to hunt and then partaking in actions that lesson the chance for others to partake in legal hunting is wrong.  Again....prove me wrong.

Let’s see, I went from being a terrorist to egotistical to now being high on a pedestal.  And no I don’t have a guilty conscious, nor do I have the time or energy to even debate such dribble.  You started strong with your points about predators but somehow went down a rabbit hole enough I’m not even going to read the big post.   I’m pretty much a straight shooter so i,’m not very good at recognizing word games, insinuations etc.   

For us simple minded folk you could say “I think it’s wrong to buy tags just to rip them up.” If that’s your point.   

Meanwhile look for the thread “From high on my pedestal”.  I’ll post in a bit of a 180 class wa buck from this mornings light.

Edit….. probably 170
« Last Edit: October 20, 2022, 10:46:07 AM by boneaddict »

Offline Bowhunter3

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #146 on: October 20, 2022, 10:31:07 AM »
I’m more curious why you annually fund the department you’re here whining about just to tear the tags up? Anything?

Offline Gringo31

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #147 on: October 20, 2022, 10:34:03 AM »
 :chuckle:
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
-Ronald Reagan

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #148 on: October 20, 2022, 10:41:16 AM »
Folks still seem focused on symptoms instead of root causes.  Lower than desirable deer abundance is a symptom...and hunters killing does is not the root cause.  I get it...some would prefer to not have any hunters harvest does even if it is legal...but in the end that does not in any meaningful way address the root causes of low deer numbers in the state.

Addressing winter range/habitat and social tolerance are root causes of lower game abundance - as are predators.  Rather than alienate legal hunters with a short term band-aid approach...I'd suggest beating down the door of commercial ag groups, producers, and developers...thats where the hell raising needs to happen...and of course the wdfw commission when it comes to predators :twocents:


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline buckfvr

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Re: STOP KILLING THE BABY MAKERS
« Reply #149 on: October 20, 2022, 10:56:32 AM »
The damage is done and continues.  Doe tags wont fix a thing at this point.  Biggest issue ?, politics.

 


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