Cross Country Ski/Snowshoe Hunting - Experience & Thoughts?

[mcrawfordaf]

Well out my way the snow is just piling up and there is no sign of it slowing any time soon. I haven't been out in the woods since elk season and my deer has been keeping me happy cozy and warm inside cooking up all sorts of meals on the weekends (made an amazing venison lasagna this weekend with a béchamel sauce and homemade pasta noodles). I'm wanting to get out but man is post holing through this stuff chasing after a dog tiresome. Was wondering if anyone here has experience with hunting via cross country ski and/or snowshoe.

I'm currently reading through a series of articles and blogs about the venture and would like to hear from any of ya'll about your experiences, tips/tricks etc. Thanks!

Some of the articles I'm going through:
https://www.syracuse.com/outdoors/2010/02/coyotes.html
https://projectupland.com/bird-hunting-gear/upland-hunting-by-back-country-skis-2/
https://www.thealaskalife.com/blogs/news/hunting-on-skis-a-beginners-primer
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/crosscountry-skis-for-hunting.110586/

[boneaddict]

It’s fun, it’s different, it’s hard work.   I have noted skis spook deer way faster than snowshoes.  Pitch of the sound I don’t know.  I literally could snowmobile up to an animal without spooking them compared to skis.    Keep an eye on the end of your barrel.  It’s very easy to get plugged with snow or ice without knowing it.   

[MountainWalk]

I use snow shoes for my wolf hunting and wolf and lynx trapping. They take some getting used to. You have to relearn to walk. Take it slow and easy. Poles are a big help.

[300rum]

Thirty years ago or more, when I was a kid, I remember reading an article in Field and Stream of a guy who hunted snowshoe hare on snowshoes with a Thompson Center Contender with a .45/.410 barrel.  Of the hundreds of stories I read, this one stayed with me, it was a good one, I wish I would have kept it.  I always wanted to do that hunt after reading it.   

[boneaddict]

Layering or clothing choice is very important.   Lots of sweat, face plants and freezing to death, or losing your fingers.  Need to pay attention just that much more.   

[slavenoid]

I'm in the same situation as you. Been doing some research I came to the conclusion that neither snowshoes or skis look very easy or fun. Then I saw these. They look more approachable and less of a learning curve. I'm thinking they would work for me on snow covered logging road situations.

[HillHound]

I have never hunted off skis. But I have seen bobcat tracks going up the ski lift before. I always wondered what they would say if I got on the lift with a couple live traps strapped to a pack. We go stay up there for three or four days at a time so I have time to start a mini trap line. Although I would have to figure out carbon dioxide suffocation or something because I don’t think they would take kindly to me shooting up there.

[pickardjw]

I tried to cougar hunt Saturday with my AT setup. Black Diamond 105 skis, Marker Kingpin 13 bindings, K2 Mindbender 130 boots....it was pretty brutal. The boots squeak, I had to break trail through 6" of fresh snow two miles in to where I set up to call, boots were brutally uncomfortable for the first time being in them this season, and the snow tacked up too much to effectively ski back down.

Cross Country skis would be more comfortable but you'd have a tough time off a groomed trail in them. Snowshoes would be better but it would be nice to be able to ski out of an area instead of walking out...

I think the ski/snowshoe hybrid in the video above is something I'm going to try in the future. Never seen the Black Diamond version before, but I've seen some good reviews on these Altai skis over on Rokslide. Too bad they're sold out on the bindings currently.

https://us-store.altaiskis.com/product/hok-skis-with-universal-pivot-bindings-copy/

[Karl Blanchard]

Been a few years now but I used to ski for cats a lot.  I'd cover country via trails and closed roads on skis till I cut tracks then I'd turn on on the tracks. As bone stated, I'd pack extra clothes to throw one, I'd bring boots as well as snow shoes as my ski shoes sucked for everything. Set of over boots worked really well for those quick calling sessions where I didn't leave my skis.

[mcrawfordaf]

Thanks for everyone's insight so far. I started looking into the Black Diamond GlideLites. These seem like the right fit or least in the right direction over full blown cross country skis. I was also looking at the Hoks as someone from Rokslide also mentioned them. 49deg North is listed as a place that either rents or demos them. Might try to make my way up there and see if they're a good fit.

Weapon wise what are you guys thinking? Obviously something light and compact would be ideal. I was thinking a Buckmark or similar .22 pistol on the chest and maybe a slimmed down light weight AR on the back for dogs/cats?

[pickardjw]

I'll be carrying my AR with a 3-9 Nikon Buckmaster on it. Just gotta break it in some more, only have a few rounds through it. The 77gr Sierra TMK should be plenty of bullet. Since you mentioned seeing the Hoks on Rokslide, maybe you've seen the .223 thread as well. That is the rabbit hole of all rabbit holes! 

[MountainWalk]

Gun wise, up here in AK, when the days get short and the snow gets deep and temps drop to -10 to -35, it’s time to leave the AR at home.  Winter wolves up here are hella stout. Most are shot with your smaller deer rifles. 243, 22-250, 270, 30’06 and the various six and a halves are pretty popular up here, at least for folks who are serious about it. Lots of folks just open fire, but shoot and never give it a second thought. But anyone out in the winter is looking for shots of opportunity; they’re serious.

Once the fur grows long and dense and the wind starts howling, it’s time to leave the 223 at home. AR’s are a terrible thing to have to hold and keep your cheek welded to the stock when you are dug into a really good pre prepared hide in a snow bank.  Some AR’s don’t like weather below zero.  But, of course, all of this just pertains to wolves.

[pickardjw]

Speaking of the .223 thread, Form just posted some wound channel photos of multiple elk taken with the 77gr TMK. The exit through the femur and hindquarter is pretty impressive. At this point, I have more hesitation about the cheap scope on my AR than the ability of the caliber/bullet.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/post-2865590

[Mtnwalker]

Speaking of the .223 thread, Form just posted some wound channel photos of multiple elk taken with the 77gr TMK. The exit through the femur and hindquarter is pretty impressive. At this point, I have more hesitation about the cheap scope on my AR than the ability of the caliber/bullet.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/post-2865590

Man, less than 400 ft/lbs on some of those shots. Wow

[jackelope]

I’d take a hard look at Alpine touring skis with skins if I was going to go with skis. I feel like a fish out of water on cross country skis. 

[millerwheeler]

I have a buddy who runs “snowglides “ I think there called snow feet . He loves them he seams to move along a lot better than my Alaskan guide snow shoes

[kselkhunter]

I prefer snow shoes.  I've done back county hunts in deep snow, and snow shoes are just more maneuverable for most back country areas.  But it depends on the type of terrain you will be in.

[Okanagan]

Have done quite a bit of hunting on snowshoes and cross country skis.  Generally enjoyable, generally not as efficient as imagined and always harder work than expected.  My preference is for a wide, hybrid ski with traction ability, like aggressive skins. I’m too out of date to recommend a current model.

I’m assuming off trail, ungroomed, deep snow in steep forest and brush, which calls for BIG snowshoes and wide skis with BIG flotation rather than the cutesy little shoes designed for groomed trails.  Post-holing is exhausting but post-holing in snowshoes or skis is torture. Err on the side of getting bigger ski/shoes with more floatation. 

Snowshoes are generally HARD work, and so are skis but skis are faster when conditions favor them.  I’ve called and killed or been in on several lynx, on snowshoes.  Hunted moose on skis and snowshoes, elk and deer on snowshoes, plus done a lot of predator calling on snowshoes.  Did 14 miles on cross-country skis after moose one day following semi-packed snow mobile tracks.  It was faster and farther than I expected, but could not get off the packed tracks on the skinny skis.

The problem is that there is NO ski or snowshoe that is ideal for all conditions.   Deep powder calls for different tools than crusted coastal snow, and cruising packed snowmobile tracks on logging roads is vastly different from off trail travel in thick brush or steep ground. Ten yards of travel in sun and shadow can change condtions a lot. 

Some 30 years ago I designed in my mind a wide ski/snowshoe hybrid on a long day spent hunting elk on steep low ridges with gullies filled with deep powder and windswept bare ground in places on the ridges, with crusted five foot deep drifts in places.  I wanted to slide on the downhill and flats and have big flotation with climbing grip on the deep drifts and uphill. Now we can buy such gear.

As much as possible, try different gear in different conditions. My first ski moose hunt was on rented skis.  Maybe buy or borrow some 30 inch snowshoes and try them on ungroomed ground.  A quarter mile will inform you about features you want.  I would sometimes ski with snowshoes on my pack and switch when conditions changed.   I have 3 pairs of snowshoes,. The biggest are GV Wide 42” snowshoes and I wish they were 48.”

One anecdote:  I remember falling head down on my back, in steep, rib deep crusted snow, with medium heavy day pack and rifle, snowshoes tangled in under-snow brush.  Pushing down on the snow crust to try to get upright merely inserted my arm to the armpit.

[boneaddict]

One anecdote:  I remember falling head down on my back, in steep, rib deep crusted snow, with medium heavy day pack and rifle, legs tangled in under-snow brush.  Pushing down on the snow crust to try to get upright merely inserted my arm to the armpit

     I’m only laughing because I know. 

Good post, pretty much says it all. 

[KFhunter]

 

been there myself, more times than I can count

[boneaddict]

all dignity goes out the window

[luvmystang67]

Just did this in a non-motorized area for elk in Idaho with a cross country setup I just bought.

Cross country skis were much better than post holing or snowshoes, but still a ton of work.  I basically did 3+ miles of lunges with a pack and a muzzleloader on my back.  That night my quads and calves were so sore I could hardly sleep, and the next day I thought my legs were going to fall off.  I'm not in the BEST shape, but I had just come off of doing a lot of hiking for fall hunting, these were just very different muscles.

The boot makes it somewhat challenging, but in deep snow I think this is about as easy as it gets.  Problem that I had was that I was not going to be getting off the logging road for anything as moving was just too difficult.  And, if I had gotten an elk down, it would NOT have been easy to get out on my own.  3 miles in a foot of fresh snow was about all I could take physically, and I'm not afraid of a physical challenge.  The way back to the truck in my own tracks was significantly easier than on the way in.

I did fall hard once, going over a downed log.  On the backside of the log my skis went down it like a mini-hill and pulled my legs out from under me.

Otherwise, i was hot the entire time (and it was 17 degrees out), and I ended my hunting season after that outing.

It was a good idea only when compared to other horrible ideas.  I would try it again, but it wasn't exactly "fun".

BTW my whole cross country setup cost me like $200.  I bought a lot of it used.  I'm 5'10" and 175lbs and have 195cm skis.

[pianoman9701]

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Think Survival when sorting out your equipment. Fire starters, first aid, extra socks, emergency food, plenty of water, tarp or tube shelter, something to melt snow in - cup, pan, etc., obvious other items like rope, knife, ice axe maybe, signaling device. Have fun, be smart. Winter is unforgiving.

[KFhunter]

Anyone else thinking of Iceman as they read this tbread?

[Okanagan]

all dignity goes out the window

   

[KFhunter]

all dignity goes out the window

Last time I heard that my wife was in labor lol

[JimmyHoffa]

I was going to try the cougar biathlon a few years back.  The plan was to ski along the road after a fresh snowfall, cut tracks and then follow them until they still had paws.  Turned out the mountains were steeper and with more trees than in my plans.  Also, back then, as soon as there was fresh snow; about ten trucks were cruising along also looking for tracks.

[Okanagan]

 Problem that I had was that I was not going to be getting off the logging road for anything as moving was just too difficult. And, if I had gotten an elk down, it would NOT have been easy to get out on my own.  3 miles in a foot of fresh snow was about all I could take physically, and I'm not afraid of a physical challenge. The way back to the truck in my own tracks was significantly easier than on the way in.

I did fall hard once, going over a downed log.  On the backside of the log my skis went down it like a mini-hill and pulled my legs out from under me.

Good on you for trying it and reporting on it! In a "that reminds me" mode of old man stories:

I was not going to be getting off the logging road for anything as moving was just too difficult.

Ditto. Travelling logging roads on skis or snowshoes was easier for me than off road in brush and tougher slope angles.  The transition zone from road to open timber usually goes through brush, down trees, logging debris and steep road cuts, and is usually the toughest going of all. 

The way back to the truck in my own tracks was significantly easier than on the way in.
Ditto again! Once a trail is broken, whether by foot or snow mobile, it is WAY easier to travel on skis or snowshoes.  A friend and I took all day to cover 3 miles in powder snow 3 feet deep.  We walked back to our vehicle that evening on our broken trail in 55 minutes.  We walked in the next morning before dawn just as fast, carrying our snowshoes till we got to the end of the broken trail.  If you find game on a trail you have broken, you can return to it fairly quickly and easily until the next heavy snowfall.  On this specific hunt, we found a moose at sundown.  I wanted to build a fire and overnight close to the moose.  My wiser partner agreed that we could do it safely in the still air.  "But if the wind comes up we are dead," he said.  At -30 and dropping fast, with no tent nor sleeping bags etc. he was right. It got -42 that night.

Re falling when stepping over a log in snowshoes:  if one shoe jams into the void under a down log, and the other one is already over the log... I got hung up almost upside down with the top shoe snagged on a broken limb on the back side of the log and the bottom shoe locked under the log in toggle fashion. 

It can be stunningly beautiful and silent with nobody in your snow world but you.

[dwtraut7]

I went out for cougar last season a handful of times on snowshoes. It was fun, but I think I probably made way too much noise each time with the way conditions were. I've bought some basic cross-country equipment recently and plan to get comfortable on that and then ultimately buy a backcountry setup with wider skis for the future.

I think there is a lot of potential for a fun hunt in the winter doing something like this.

[Rob]

Two safety considerations.
1.  Beware of tree wells.  If you go in one headfirst you may not make it out.   Very easy for thigs to go pear shaped fast on skis.

2.  Read the avy reports if they exist for your area.  Lots of backcountry skiers get in trouble with avalanche.   Slightly safer in trees but beware of terrain traps.  https://nwac.us/ or there is an app called "avalanche forecast" that consolidates many reporting sites to cover more areas.

Might be wise to carry an inreach or spot if you have one.

[KFhunter]

I've been in a 20+ foot tree well 

Upside down, Canadians yelling down at me "you ok?" while they were toking up a joint. 


I was younger and flexible, got turned around and the rim was way up there above my head!


It was then I realized those trees weren't young reprod, but mature tree tops 


Snowmobile in a bowl, snow blew off the opposite mountain sides, over the top, and settled in the bowl I was in

[KFhunter]

I generally don't find predators in avalanche zones 

Unless I were after lynx

[Rob]

Just thought I would mention it.

I read about folks suffocating in tree wells just about every year.  And one never knows if they may pass thru an avy risk area on the way to predators.  Cascades are more prone to slides from what I understand.

Not reasons to stay off the skis, or out of the woods, just thoughts for consideration.

[Okanagan]

Some good stuff being posted. 

Small tree wells 3-4 feet deep make excellent places for a predator caller to sit.  Just your head from eyes up shows over the rim and you can see under limbs in some places. 

Most people probably know this but snow takes a “set’  after being disturbed.  It is not freezing in any normal melted sense anyway, but even dry powder snow in -40 firms up.  If you stir and toss snow, maybe shovel into a pile, within 20 minutes or so it will set up into a firm state that you can cut blocks from.  Avalanche snow “sets” so if buried, as quickly as possible press it back before it hardens, to make a breathing space and as much arm/leg space as possible.

Knowing that disturbed snow sets up has uses from making snow block shelters/windbreaks, to finding firm snow to travel with skis or snowshoes.  Some drifts will harden up after being stirred and moved by wind.  Animal tracks will often set up into a harder line of snow that holds up snowshoes much better than undisturbed snow.  On my last lynx I was too heavy with daypack and rifle for my snowshoes to hold me up about one step in four.  I found a line of old moose tracks that had hardened up and though it was a bit lumpy it kept me on top as long as it was headed my way.

[Rob]

I like the msr snow shoes with the removeable tails.  Having short tails make plung stepping down slopes so much easier.  adding the tails while traversing or ascending makes a big difference with float.

Some of the most exhausting and difficult travel I have done was while on snowshoes!

[Rob]

100% on snow setting like cement especially in an Avalanche.   Veering way off topic, but this is an outstanding anaysis of the tunnel.creek avy at Stevens pass.  Takes some time to go thru.  (Pains me to endorse anything produced by the NYT but this really is good)

https://www.nytimes.com/projects/2012/snow-fall/index.html#/?part=tunnel-creek

[Okanagan]

Yep, tangent but FWIW:  another useful tracking aid of snow hardening after being disturbed is to age tracks in snow.  Others do this I'm sure, but I have learned to touch and feel of tracks in snow to help determine how long ago they were made.  For comparison I feel my own tracks with bare fingers.  Fresh tracks tend to be soft and then begin to harden, as described in posts above.

 If you hang around or come back past the same spot later, feel of the tracks again to compare and get a sense of how fast and how much they harden.  It is useful to know a track is about 15 minutes old, or hours old, or as fresh as mine...!  (In that case, look around.  He is probably watching you!)

[Fidelk]

Also, be aware, if knocked out (skiing) you can drown in a couple of inches of snow.

[doubletall]

Look up HOK skis.  I rented a pair in Winthrop last year and tried them on the hill behind my place in Twisp.  In deep snow you don't have to pick up your feet as much as with a snow shoes and I'd much rather skin up a hill than plod along on snow shoes.  Skiing down the hill was not nearly as fun as with my AT setup but that's not what they're really about.  The bindings will accept pretty much any kind of boot.  They're worth a look anyways.

[mcrawfordaf]

Man this has been a great thread with a ton of useful information! Thanks guys. You got me thinking about things I hadn't previously ever considered. No clue what a "tree well" was before this topic.

Any input on pulk sleds? Necessary? Useful?

[KFhunter]

Man this has been a great thread with a ton of useful information! Thanks guys. You got me thinking about things I hadn't previously ever considered. No clue what a "tree well" was before this topic.

Any input on pulk sleds? Necessary? Useful?

Polks would be hella loud, but super nice for hauling out the mt lion, wolf whatever.

I use my exo 1500 pack, without water bladder,  it holds a foxpro XWAVE perfectly, and my tripod, and all my calling gear, plus the rifle

I do have the lid on it.

That leaves me hands free for ski poles

[KFhunter]

I get something down I'm going to walk out and leave the critter, maybe pack, and get my snowmobile,  or polk


My odds haven't been so great as to carry in a polk each stand...lotta dragging an empty polk around 

[boneaddict]

Apparently you can bring out big bulls on snowshoes.   That’s a pretty cool photo

[KFhunter]

anyone know what pic Boneaddict is referring too?

[JimmyHoffa]

anyone know what pic Boneaddict is referring too?

Stud bull? Elk section.

[Okanagan]

I haven't used one but have thought that a kid's flat plastic roll-up snow slide would be easy to carry and provide a tough sled for sliding an animal.

I used to skin most predators on the spot and only carry out the rolled up hides.  It is amazing how fast and easy a coyote is to skin if done within five minutes of his demise.  He will be signifcantly harder to skin after 30 minutes.

For those taken out whole, I carried a big contractor trash bag to put the critter in and slide/drag it on the snow.   For whole deer, or quarters of elk, the hair side slides well on an unskinned critter.  Drag it so the hair direction aids the slide, and looping a half hitch over the nose for a direct pull makes for the easiest drag on whole deer.  Use a deer foreleg cut off as a drag handle. 

edited a bit for clarity