My Baker Goat Units

[Keith494]

Anyone know what happened to the Mt Baker tags? I don’t remember seeing anything about them getting rid of them, did I miss something?

[Sundance]

there was a lot of discussion last year about the unit(s) closing due to overharvest of nannies.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,288453.0.html

[Practical Approach]

Yes, due to several years of high nanny kills and the population declining significantly based off annual surveys the season is shut down on Baker.  I suspect the overall population decline played a larger role in the closure.

[shanevg]

Yes, due to several years of high nanny kills and the population declining significantly based off annual surveys the season is shut down on Baker.  I suspect the overall population decline played a larger role in the closure.

The nanny overharvest was the straw that broke the camel's back.  The population decline was happening either way. 

[Meathunter06]

Native harvest doesn't help

[Practical Approach]

Native harvest doesn't help

There is little to no native harvest based of annual reports.  What a random post.  Please share your data, I am interested.

[OltHunter]

Have other states fared as poorly as Washington has with their goat populations? These tag eliminations are pretty shocking, but I don't follow other states tags at all.

[trophyhunt]

Native harvest doesn't help

If this was a factor, I would bet my left ... that @shanevg would know.

[shanevg]

Native harvest doesn't help

If this was a factor, I would bet my left ... that @shanevg would know.

Billy harvest isn't hurting the populations in the same way nanny harvest is.  To my knowledge (which is pretty high on these units) no natives have harvested a nanny in these units in years.  The nanny harvest was entirely through the WDFW issued tags.

[trophyhunt]

Thank you for the info!

[Keith494]

Guess I’d missed that info last year, just got around to crusing through the regs. Thanks all


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[wazzu99]

what about Bumping River going away?  Anyone here what is going on with this prior hunt choice?

[JPhelps]

It's a shame as my Mt Baker goat tag was one of the most memorable hunts I've been on.

I think nanny harvest may have played a minor roll in in the reduction of the goat herd, but it was not the main factor.  In that short time of me being there in 2020 and now there is something way bigger at play.  We saw goats EVERYWHERE!!!! 

I don't claim to know what is causing the reduction though but it would have to be an increase in predation, poaching, disease, winters or a combination of all of those.  The data below shows that 3 females were killed since 2020.  I'm unsure of what was killed in 2024 but if it was females combined with the reduction in herd size it may have been a preemptive decision to "do something".

6006 - Avalanche Gorge (4-7) - Mountain Goat Unit 4-7
2017- 2 males killed
2018 - 2 males killed
2019- 0 killed
2020 - 3 males killed
2021 - 1 female killed
2022 - 0 killed
2023- 1 male and 2 females killed

[fishngamereaper]

It's really frustrating
They either know the cause and won't admit it...
Or they really don't, which honestly is worse...
Since nearly every single goat relocated from the OP died .. you'd think there would be some data to study....

And by this time the OP would of been the premier unit in the State, if not the whole west...

As for bumping...I thought I saw it was stable...so who knows why it's tag less.

[Keith494]

It's a shame as my Mt Baker goat tag was one of the most memorable hunts I've been on.

I think nanny harvest may have played a minor roll in in the reduction of the goat herd, but it was not the main factor.  In that short time of me being there in 2020 and now there is something way bigger at play.  We saw goats EVERYWHERE!!!! 

I don't claim to know what is causing the reduction though but it would have to be an increase in predation, poaching, disease, winters or a combination of all of those.  The data below shows that 3 females were killed since 2020.  I'm unsure of what was killed in 2024 but if it was females combined with the reduction in herd size it may have been a preemptive decision to "do something".

6006 - Avalanche Gorge (4-7) - Mountain Goat Unit 4-7
2017- 2 males killed
2018 - 2 males killed
2019- 0 killed
2020 - 3 males killed
2021 - 1 female killed
2022 - 0 killed
2023- 1 male and 2 females killed

I’m sure they have their reasoning. I’ll just have to hope it comes back around in a few years. 3 nanny’s since 2020 doesn’t seem like a lot. But depending on what other factors are going on who knows.

Growing up in whatcom county and seeing them every time I venture up that was always made a goat hunt on Baker my dream hunt. Even knowing that it would probably never happen. I know there’s other units, but I’ve never had the draw like I do to baker. Not saying I wouldn’t venture to Alaska for one, but something about taking one on the mountain I grew up under just sounds like a dream.


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[Ridgerunner]

Lots of factors going on here but one thing that is worth mentioning that has not been mentioned is that WA is the MOST conservative state in the West when it comes to mountain goat seasons and quotas.  I'm not saying that the population is in decline but with the very conservative guidelines(and getting more conservative) and the lack of data the state is very quick to reduce tags.  I'm not sure how other states are able to offer more tags with smaller populations of goats and not have the same issues that we have here. 

[Keith494]

Lots of factors going on here but one thing that is worth mentioning that has not been mentioned is that WA is the MOST conservative state in the West when it comes to mountain goat seasons and quotas.  I'm not saying that the population is in decline but with the very conservative guidelines(and getting more conservative) and the lack of data the state is very quick to reduce tags.  I'm not sure how other states are able to offer more tags with smaller populations of goats and not have the same issues that we have here.

Sounds like what Washington does best

[bear]

A couple Nannie’s shot isn’t gonna cause this much of an issue.  Hasn’t been any hunting in the area just north of there that shut down in the late 90’s I believe.  It had 10 tags in there in 1994.  More going on here then what wdfw knows or is telling

[Meathunter06]

A couple Nannie’s shot isn’t gonna cause this much of an issue.  Hasn’t been any hunting in the area just north of there that shut down in the late 90’s I believe.  It had 10 tags in there in 1994.  More going on here then what wdfw knows or is telling

They know who's been hunting in there but their liberal agenda won't allow them to do anything about it.

[tracksoup]

A couple Nannie’s shot isn’t gonna cause this much of an issue.  Hasn’t been any hunting in the area just north of there that shut down in the late 90’s I believe.  It had 10 tags in there in 1994.  More going on here then what wdfw knows or is telling

They know who's been hunting in there but their liberal agenda won't allow them to do anything about it.

 

[3nails]

 Coincidentally the deer population in the high country has taken a massive hit due to the burgeoning lion population. I believe that they have begun targeting goats as the deer population shrinks. 

[Tbar]

A couple Nannie’s shot isn’t gonna cause this much of an issue.  Hasn’t been any hunting in the area just north of there that shut down in the late 90’s I believe.  It had 10 tags in there in 1994.  More going on here then what wdfw knows or is telling

They know who's been hunting in there but their liberal agenda won't allow them to do anything about it.

Please do tell.

[Tbar]

Coincidentally the deer population in the high country has taken a massive hit due to the burgeoning lion population. I believe that they have begun targeting goats as the deer population shrinks. 

Places are nearly void of deer,  and unfortunately goats now as well,  that once always held decent numbers.  The rec pressure likely pushes goats into less desirable habitat where they could be getting hit harder by cats.  That's purely speculation at this point but has been in discussions throughout.

[CarbonHunter]

The state issued tags is not what caused the drop in population. Both the tribes and state were trying to figure out how all the transplanted goats died as well.

I’m sure they know but their findings conflict with their agendas or they would have published the results.

[Tbar]

The state issued tags is not what caused the drop in population. Both the tribes and state were trying to figure out how all the transplanted goats died as well.

I’m sure they know but their findings conflict with their agendas or they would have published the results.

Not true but speak as if you know.  The criticism lies in the fact that there was zero funding to do investigations. Actually very little funding to collar.  The ones that were investigated were a mix of cougar kills and several undetermined but were in avalanche chutes.

[CarbonHunter]

The state issued tags is not what caused the drop in population. Both the tribes and state were trying to figure out how all the transplanted goats died as well.

I’m sure they know but their findings conflict with their agendas or they would have published the results.

Not true but speak as if you know.  The criticism lies in the fact that there was zero funding to do investigations. Actually very little funding to collar.  The ones that were investigated were a mix of cougar kills and several undetermined but were in avalanche chutes.

What’s not true?

The tribes have plenty of money for this research and they are looking into lots of issues around our state. We are just not getting any definitive data from the tribes, feds or the state.

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/almost-all-mountain-goats-died-after-airlift-from-olympics-to-cascades/

[Practical Approach]

Biologists knew going into the translocation that survival for mountain goat translocations is fairly low.  They just don't relocate to new surroundings very well for many reasons.  The general public emphasized relocating the goats rather than euthanizing them on site in the ONP.  Yes, TBAR is spot on with there not being any allocated funds for WDFW to follow up and investigate mortalities.  The tribes conducted what investigations did occur.  Other issues are the weather and terrain.  Goats that die in the winter time are often not accessible or it is to dangerous.