Sportsmen Shafted by Congress

[Little Dave]

I'll point out that she said we are (in the process of) losing our rights.
You asked her to name rights already lost.

The matter is that we do need to be noisy with the politicians.  We're not going to give up rights, although we do have adaptable and perpetual resistance to erode or lose these rights.  Presently we have exceptional rights, we can hunt, we can defend ourselves, we have a degree of privacy, and we cannot be fined or imprisoned for uttering a word that is not agreeable with the head of state.

Many do more than their fair share to defend these rights.  I see these types of messages as an appeal to get more people to pitch in and help defend rights.  The principle being that more people make lighter work.  Therefore, it is appropriate to use media such as this to discuss.

[KillBilly]

Totally agree Fred....is this thread still permissible.....

Was nearly afraid it might hurt someones feelings...

Some folks just don't understand how national politics and hunting are related, maybe they will understand when it is banned....

Dale, this is clearly a fair topic and it will stand unless some folks can't control themselves. When name calling and threats begin then it is time to lock or delete. Locking and deleting isn't as prevalent as some think it does.

[300UltraMagShooter]

Miles asked the most important question in all of these "threads".

He asked, "what freedoms & liberty are we losing?"

That is it.  And if you guys can force him to see it, you will have gained more ground with him than all other posts combined.

I can give example after example after example, but i'd prefer you guys to do it so you can get the hang of it when this comes up again. 

Not everyone understands "taxes" or "security from islamofacists", but everyone understands they don't want to lose their freedoms.  Loss of freedom & liberty is the heart of every political issue there is, which is why i hate leftist ideas so much.

Please explain it to Miles in detail and with real world examples. 

Hint:  Maybe start with Healtcare or socialist style (government run) schools?

[Ray]

If you know anything about Sunstein he's a complete kook who advocates banning all hunting except for sustenance purposes. You would have to prove you need to hunt even in those scenarios if you want to meet his standards. The fact that he's such a radical will certainly raise eyebrows among the sporting community and you can be sure that your hunting priveleges will be under scrutiny. Possibly under attack.

If you like the feeling of having to justify every aspect of hunting to some government bureaucrat and feel that the expanding government and possibly this specific bureaucrat it is not an invasion or even out of touch with reality then great. I don't see any problem with this particular topic.

I think there are legitemate reasons for multiple hunting groups to target this person and try to get him out of the government. Cass Sunstein believes that the animals should be able to bring you to court and sue you. I have no idea how that could physically work but anyone who thinks like that doesn't have all their screws tightened. Apparently Cass Sunstein would have sweeping powers to regulate ANYTHING. Whatever that means

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease_detail.cfm/release/249

In a 2007 speech at Harvard University, Sunstein argued in favor of entirely "eliminating current practices such as … meat eating." He also proposed: "We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now."

Sunstein wrote in his 2004 book Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions that "animals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives … Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian-like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients’ behalf."

The Center for Consumer Freedom’s Director of Research, David Martosko, is available to discuss Cass Sunstein’s likely impact on typical elements of American life that involve the use of animals. Sunstein’s work could spell the end of animal agriculture, retail sales of meat and dairy foods, hunting and fishing, biomedical research, pet ownership, zoos and aquariums, traveling circuses, and countless other things Americans take for granted.

Mr. Martosko said: "Cass Sunstein owes Americans an honest appraisal of his animal rights agenda as America’s top regulator. Americans don’t realize that the next four years could be full of bizarre initiatives plucked from the wildest dreams of the animal-rights fringe. Think about every outrageous idea PETA and the Humane Society of the United States have ever had, and imagine them all having the force of federal law. This doesn’t look good for hunters, ranchers, restaurateurs, biomedical researchers, or ordinary pet owners."

“[A]nimals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives, to prevent violations of current law … Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients’ behalf.”

“We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now.”

.

[huntnphool]

"I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now."

 There goes sex, outlawed unless you apply for a procreating permit. That would be one high demand OIL tag right there.

[runamuk]

OK Miles sorry I had to go work the 4 hours I get to work today so could not jump back in and answer your questions....

In my lifetime rights I have lost...

I have no right to choose..... to wear a seatbelt, buy auto insurance, wear a helmet on a motorcycle, in many cities I may not leave my dogs intact, or breed them, sell my horses for slaughter, these are few that pop into my head immediately......you may not think these are rights or a loss but to me they are....because I knew a time where I had these choices and now I don't.

I am sick of being told how I can find ways to make money...I apply for jobs and get no where....I've sold everything I can sell extra vehicles, my horses, horse trailer, my plants are not selling which was once a source of income...they'd probably sell if they were illegal plants instead of just landscape plants....I have shovelled *censored* in horse barns, bartended, worked low paying crappy jobs part time around my kids schedules for 18 years I started working when I was 11 .....so when I say I am not finding work it really pisses me off to have someone say I am not trying hard enough 

Miles I go to the gun shop to talk to people the owner is a nice guy I stop in and say hi when I am in town I haven't bought a damn thing from him in the last 2 months due to no spending money

I don't know why I am even bothering to try and answer your questions.......it doesn't matter what I say....hell none of it matters......all I do is let this crap get me upset.....

[Rgrady35]

Gee Miles, aint been laid in a while, huh? Dude you might want to try some anger management classes. Let people say what they want, it's not hurting you is it? Life is short, sorry if you have had issues lately. Two rights ya say that have been lost. I wish I could use steel traps like I used to when I was younger. I wish we could still bait bears. I wish I could find some way to turn off my stoopid seat belt alarm in my truck without having to be a contortionist. I pray that my health care is not in the hands of the government. I really don't trust the government, as many of our fore fathers didn't. The less the government is involved with the better. There, I hope I didn't upset you too much, man.

[bearpaw]

Miles....it might get rid of much of the bickering you are complaining about if you avoid my posts. When I look back through this post the bickering you are talking about seems to be mostly your own. If you avoid my posts then we won't have the bickering that you so adamently say you hate....

For some of you others who don't have the fortitude or ability to talk politics in a courteous manner, please avoid my posts and we won't have the bickering you say you don't like.

For the record and out of courtesy, I will limit my political posts to guns or hunting related political posts, unless someone else starts a thread, then I will consider it open season.

IMO - If you can't take the heat and respond in a civil manner, you shouldn't even read or respond to political threads.    That will take care of much of the bickering some of you complain about. 

[bearpaw]

Back to the thread.....

Unfortunately we are now stuck with Sunstein....hopefully I am wrong in worrying that he will try to further his anti-gun and anti-hunting agenda....but somehow I doubt that will be the case.

May the force be with us....

[bearpaw]

I think there is an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other, sometimes it is hard to listen to the right one, but we all need to try my firend.

[bearpaw]

miles, miles, miles....it is so easy to see what you are doing....you are just trying to agravate me so you can complain about the political threads upsetting your feelings.

sorry, bait not taken.....have a nice day my friend. 

[bearpaw]

Miles....it might get rid of much of the bickering you are complaining about if you avoid my posts. When I look back through this post the bickering you are talking about seems to be mostly your own. If you avoid my posts then we won't have the bickering that you so adamently say you hate....

Thankyou for taking my advice from several posts back. I have nothing against you, but you seem to be creating the very problem you are complaining about. I say we forget the whole thing and just try to support each other in our hunting endeavers....

 

[Ray]

Yes it is unfortunate, and now we all know about him and what he stands for.   What could possibly be left to this post other than complaining?   Now if you are going to post useful info in the area of activism, or perhaps letters you have written, or something you have done to try to help the issue, than great.   Other than that quit complaining about it.

A lot of people are completely unaware of who's where and what's going on. The intent may not be to bicker as you suggest. In addition to that there is good reason to share information and points of view. It's a forum. That's what people like to do with forums. Activism is very much about being aware of what is going on. If you are not aware then you don't know what to act on. I think it could be construed as insulting to tell someone who has made a topic regarding anti hunters in the top level of the government that they not are doing something useful by sharing the information. Your repetitive rants only feed the fire of negativity on the various political topics regarding hunting and 2nd Amendment matters and are pretty much counterproductive. If you have some facts to debunk the topic that would be something worth hearing about. Other than that I support deleting instigating responses as they serve little or no purpose.

[Alchase]

Activism starts from whining, bitching, and yes bickering.
Our forefathers did not one day say "the King wants to tax our tea"! Revolution!!!"
It was after decades of taxation without representation. Tea was just the final straw that broke the camels back per se`.
What is your final straw? Registering your weapons? Taxing and/or limiting your ammo? Coming into your home an taking all you weapons. They actually did this after Katrina and we heard nothing about it for months? Where do you think they got the list of people with weapons from? How about the State level, over the past 20+ years of continuously taking a day of your hunting season here, raising the cost of tags there. Playing us against each other (Archery, Blackpowder, Rifle). Hiring Bios with no hunting or fishing background that are supportive and sometimes active with the extreme anti hunting Eco groups. How about telling us they are killing off all the high mountain lakes to kill the rainbows and cuttthrout to plant Dooly Vardon that you won't be able to fish? With the logic that rainbow and cutthrout are not native. Then turning around and allowing Canadian Grey Wolves to populate areas they have never been in the past?
Closing down sportsmans rights to fish a river to minimize conflict with another group that gets the river to themselves during that time.

Pick your straw 

[runamuk]

Pick your straw 

My straw was the day they banned the sale of horses for slaughter in this country......