The truth about the wolves

[Fed up with deception]

You're right- we're all screwed.  If the wolves don't eat us and all the game, we're all going to die from parasitic worms.  If i was you guys, I would stay out of the woods; it's just too dangerous there.   

Really- my suggestion is to continue what you're doing and pay attention to wolf sign.  Document it and report to the state to help the delisting effort.  That is the only way that I can think of to get the delisting process going an begin managing wolves once they are well established.   You just don't get it do you, delisting to what? delisting to big game species is absolutely the wrong approach.  If they are not considered as a predator, you will have the same bureaucratic problems that Idaho is having.  Come on, I suppose you think that the 220 some tags they gave out was a grand and noble gesture, well you got that partially right, it was a gesture.  2 or 3 times that many pups will be born this year.  The scientists, yes scientists say in order to keep a wolf population in check, 70% mortality has to occur every single year.  The way game departments are run these days, they are most definitely being run by anti hunters. All the biologists sure are.  If you don't see that then you are either not the brightest firefly in the woods, or very sadly trusting, or quite possibly, on the other side,  It's time to wake up and see that the WDFW is not on the hunters side.  They have been sliding left for decades now.  These disease, parasite ridden sport killers need to be eliminated.  Unfortunately with "hunters" like you on our side that is not going to happen.  When all you have left to hunt WA. is your coyote, I hope you will be happy, for left to the federalise and our ill game dept. it will only be a short amount of time before we are in the same predicament as Idaho and Montana etc, etc.  Either stand with us or quit your ill anti hunting propaganda on a hunting web site.  You do nothing other than to further the anti hunter sentiment that is rampant across the nation.

[SkookumHntr]

We seen are first wolf in the upper Sinlahekin about 5 years ago! We didn't hunt 08 because of other hunts but 09 yes from 07 to 09 the deer numbers are wayway down! I don't care what any Bio's say, Hunting was as *censored*ty as I have ever seen and we had a better later season with weather towards the end. The deer in the area we hunt were more herded up and not spread out like normal and pretty obvious things are different then 3+ years ago, This coming up fall will tell us more, if hunting is *censored*ty again no doubt the wolves have ran um out or changed the normal patterns of the deer herd. And Yes I got pics of my wolf, If I can figure out how to scan a regular pic and get it on here I will, but keep in mind its a Canadian timber wolf and there pretty big, Its on the brochure for Double Eagle Outfitters in BC if you happen to go to the Portland Sportsmans show.

So that right there, if I understand what you are saying, states that the hunting was better with weather, and the deer were herded up. So plain and simple the numbers are normal they have just altered their movement patterns, and their useage areas.

Brandon, how many deer fawns and elk calves will survive to the age of 1 in the wolf country?

The latest study I read in Idaho or Montana, I will have to find the article again for reference, said the elk calf survival rate for 2008 was ~30% or perfectly in line with the ten year average. So there has been an equilibrium established between the wolves presence and elk numbers. That means as long as we as hunters aren't allowed to overharvest the numbers will start to climb again.

Brandon

-No you missunderstood, we had a later season, Oct 17-25, snow and wind on the 24-25, should have been outstanding hunting, nope, awful, we seen one group of deer with about 18 deer. In the area we hunt you never see them grouped up like that! Believe me bud, we are not the only group that noticed the drop in deer numbers, Im not going to take this argument any further becouse you dont know much about the upper Okanogan Deer herds, but the guys that do know, know there in trouble!

[luvtohnt]

You made your point much more clear, I understand now what you were trying to say. So you claim that you know the upper Okanogan deer herds then, why?, because you hunt for 8 days up there.

Brandon

[SkookumHntr]

What are you trying to say there guy? That there were alot of deer around? Were you up there? Obviously not, Ive hunted the area all my life and have never seen so few deer, and I'm sure anybody else that was up there agrees. Keep reading your Northwest Sportsman to keep you informed

[spikehunter]

S S S

[luvtohnt]

I am saying you are just as far out of the loop as I am. Just because you have spent 8 days a year up there does not make you an expert.

Brandon

[wolfbait]

The truth is WDFW and Defenders of Wildlife among others have been planting wolves in Washington for along time, it takes awhile for the wolves to run out of prey and to drop down into lower elevations where they have not yet started killing. This I know for a fact. The wolves that were planted this spring, was the very same week that WDFW bought the new "deer Habitat" with wolf money. Not surprising s.fitkin was so happy he went to the Wenatchee world and bragged about the 8 wolves that were now fattening up on the "new deer habitat that WDFW had just purchased. New information has surfaced of wolves being planted, and if I was Harriet Allen I would definitely start looking for other employment. If I was a WDFW I would think about pulling head out of ass and try to figure out a way to sidestep the avalanche that is head their way. As I have said before Washington is not just now starting wolf recovery, but in fact should never have been put on the endangered list, but instead been classified as a predator and shot on sight. Wolves were not meant to be down in the low lands running through peoples yards, they are suppose to be up in the wilderness.

Brandon the more you talk the less sense you make, give up before you drop in over your head. WDFW biologist have lied to the public on livestock kills, they have lied on the wolf count, they have lied through the whole Washington wolf issue, but then they are defenders of wildlife so what should we expect. Your book learning does not carry over to what is seen in the woods, it would be great if you could sit in your warm cozy office and tell everyone exactly what the deer count is like s.fitkin is doing, but that is not the way it works. You need to get out in the brush sonny.

[WAcoyotehunter]

The truth is WDFW and Defenders of Wildlife among others have been planting wolves in Washington for along time, it takes awhile for the wolves to run out of prey and to drop down into lower elevations where they have not yet started killing. This I know for a fact. The wolves that were planted this spring, was the very same week that WDFW bought the new "deer Habitat" with wolf money. Not surprising s.fitkin was so happy he went to the Wenatchee world and bragged about the 8 wolves that were now fattening up on the "new deer habitat that WDFW had just purchased. New information has surfaced of wolves being planted, and if I was Harriet Allen I would definitely start looking for other employment. If I was a WDFW I would think about pulling head out of ass and try to figure out a way to sidestep the avalanche that is head their way. As I have said before Washington is not just now starting wolf recovery, but in fact should never have been put on the endangered list, but instead been classified as a predator and shot on sight. Wolves were not meant to be down in the low lands running through peoples yards, they are suppose to be up in the wilderness.

Brandon the more you talk the less sense you make, give up before you drop in over your head. WDFW biologist have lied to the public on livestock kills, they have lied on the wolf count, they have lied through the whole Washington wolf issue, but then they are defenders of wildlife so what should we expect. Your book learning does not carry over to what is seen in the woods, it would be great if you could sit in your warm cozy office and tell everyone exactly what the deer count is like s.fitkin is doing, but that is not the way it works. You need to get out in the brush sonny.

Looking forward to your evidence of the planting.  As you know- I'm suspect of any translocation or relocation theories, but if you have proof and can bring it forward I would love to see that.

[SkookumHntr]

-Kinda funny when all of a sudden they have wolf identification next to the coyote id in the regs, what was that 5 years ago, when did the wolves show up 5yrs ago hmm

[wolfbait]

WDFW are not going to be smelling like a rose when everything comes out and all is said and done I can tell you that right now. Funny thing about the truth, when it stinks to high heaven and the blind can see the lies then something is sure to give. WDFW went out of their way to make an example of the White's, which really opened up the wolf issue in Washington, you might say WDFW sh$t in their own nest. Now their fat is in the fire and I'm betting there is a lot of finger pointing going on inside WDFW headquarters.

[Kain]

Western States Sportsman just posted this pic on their Facebook page.  I had not seen it before and thought I would share.  I didnt want to start a whole new thread and figured anyone that is into the wolf issue is probably on this thread.
 
This is the title of the pic.

22 Wolves = 10,000 missing elk in the Lolo valley in Idaho. Not to mention the rest of the state.

[mulehunter]

Kain, Those pic WOW  I remember in Lolo Recently Spring, I saw 14.....     Dang 22 too MANY for this pack!    No wonder why No one want to do anything but watching them GROWING and GROWING!! Just like Lookout pack! Pups are supposed to born next month over ELBOW CANYON!
I cant believe NO ONE shot them this year! STILL 7 



Mulehunter 

[wolfbait]

Have you seen the GPS wolves lately? you know the packs that no one is suppose to know about. Talk about the dumb leading the dumb,  Wdfandwolves

[Lowedog]

There are 17 left to kill in the Lolo zone as of today. 

[mulehunter]

Have you seen the GPS wolves lately? you know the packs that no one is suppose to know about. Talk about the dumb leading the dumb,  Wdfandwolves

   Were you talking about RED Collar or Black Collar? 

Mulehunter