If the East Side Went to Permit Only!!!

[high country]

one thing that you might want to consider is predators. how many preds are killed during the season? if there are more guys in the woods persuing elk and opportunisticly taking preds the number of pred killed will go down and hence thenumber of game animals eaten will go up.

just a little possible what if.

[huntnphool]

Why would you want to give up being to hunt yearly simply for more chance at a big rack?

And this is what the "permit only" advocates on this site don't take into consideration. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and by far the majority of hunters in this state are the "hunt every year" type and do their share of "squeaking" to WDFW.

[Sawbuck]

I'm not knocking your idea or research.....but personally for me I want to hunt. I'm not a trophy hunter, but wouldn't mind having the opportunity to hunt them on occasion. However I'm not willing to give up general season and run the risk of not being able to hunt at all depending how successful I was for drawing. This type of discussion happens a lot on the forum and not sure why so many people want permit only hunting other than for the sake of having more trophy potential. Why would you want to give up being to hunt yearly simply for more chance at a big rack? If that is the case head out of state hunt where there is more trophy opportunity. 

Well said. I pack in every year to the same spot away from the crowds and enjoy hunting spikes. I see big bulls, take pictures and wait my turn to be drawn. Out of the five in our group, somebody gets drawn for an any bull tag about every other year, and we usually bring home at least one spike. Pretty good odds, good enough anyway. I think there are many ways to improve our elk herd management but going permit only might not be the best.

[hughjorgan]

I agree with what NW_Hunter said. I am fine hunting spikes and cows until I draw a big bull tag every 3-5 years. Another thing, so you are against them having a general season in the Little Naches. Don't you think it is kind of contradicting yourself by doubling the tags for Peaches Ridge, most guys are going to hunt the Little Naches over the Taneum, thus creating more "crowds" as you put in your letter in that specific GMU.

[ridgefire]

i am not a trophy hunter but i would be all for making the eastside a draw i think it would improve the hunting for all of us

[funkster]

This means you would get drawn to hunt branch bulls 3-4 times more often than now.  
http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/85

That is great since I have never drawn! I am assuming this would also mean not choosing a side before the draws are completed? That also would be nice.

[HHPro]

i am not a trophy hunter but i would be all for making the eastside a draw i think it would improve the hunting for all of us

[norsepeak]

The ironic thing is that all of the units on chinook pass (peaches, bumping/nile, bethel and manastash) could handle double the big bull permits they issue now for archery.  When we can call in and work 6-10 DIFFERENT big bulls per day everyday and in different areas, that tells me that there are a LOT of big bulls running around.  It really becomes evident in the winter time.  We see a lot of big bulls all winter long that never go down to the low country so they are not counted in the surveys anyway.  The key is if we could get bio's that actually were hunters, like back in the old days.  They would have an understanding of what actually is going on in the woods instead in some book that some nerd wrote who never actaully went outside either.

[teal101]

I'm an advocate for permit only.  I personally think it will provide for a better herd and make hunting up in the clockum more enjoyable and safe.  I've been up there during elk season twice.  Never again.  Too many people for too little game and too little space.  It's ridiculous up there.  And culling off all the spikes before they can grow up a bit really isn't helping that herd.

Shut it down and make it permit only.  Less people, more game, bigger game, NO INDIANS!!!

[funkster]

After I thought about it a alittle I got to thinking, would this change just make the westside more crowded? If half of the guys hunting eastside don't get drawn,most likely they are heading over the mountains making a already crowed archery season more crowded. Then with the added hunters on the westside,they are going to have to change the 3 point or antlerless to spike or antlerless because the bull to cow ratios will be off in a few short years. Now you will not be able to hunt bulls anywhere in the state without being drawn for a permit. So are we solving a problem or just making a new one? I say leave it the way it is, keep little naches closed for early archery.

[bobcat]

I agree, the westside would probably get more pressure if the eastside was draw only. So the entire state needs to be draw only.

For those saying permit only hunting would be only to increase the number of "trophies," no that isn't true at all. It would increase the number of animals overall and decrease the number of hunters in the woods at one time. Some units may be able to handle the same number of people that currently hunt it, so therefore they could issue that number of permits for that unit. Other units may be better off with a 50% cut in hunters. Reduce permits accordingly.

The point is it would allow the WDFW to correctly manage elk numbers per GMU instead of the way it is now where there is basically NO management whatsoever.

[colockumelk]

Hugh I got 4.5% because thats what the average success rate on eastside archery is on average.  Since the discussion is the east side why the hell would I include stats for the west side??

huntphool yes I know damn well that the biggest voice are the guys who just want the chance to hunt.  I realize that the quality hunting dreamers such as myself are in the minority.  I have also taken into account about the Indians.  

Article 3 of the treaty says.  The right of taking fish, at all usual and accustomed grounds and stations, is further secured to said Indians in common with the citizens of the territory…together with the privilege of hunting,  Now also in the BOLDT decision it also says (and this is why the Indians would lose their 24/7 elk hunting rights if it went to permit only)  

The courts have created a narrow exception to the general rule that state regulation of tribal treaty hunters is preempted by the treaties. This exception applies in situations where the state is regulating the fishing or hunting of a particular species in order to conserve that species.

If it went to permit only then that is "in order to conserve that species."  Although in order for us to hunt cows or bulls we MUST get drawn; there is still a general season.  If it goes to permit only that is telling the state that we are doing that to preserve and conserve the species of elk.  The Indians would still have hunting rights but they would now have to get drawn to hunt them much like they must get drawn to hunt sheep or goats.

[colockumelk]

High Country I don't think very many people connect with predators while out hunting.  At least I've never seen a camp with a predator in it.  I'd be willing to bet that 90% of predators taken are by the hard corps guys that predator hunt during the off season.  I personally know guys that smoke 50-70 yotes a year.

 

I agree with what NW_Hunter said. I am fine hunting spikes and cows until I draw a big bull tag every 3-5 years. Another thing, so you are against them having a general season in the Little Naches. Don't you think it is kind of contradicting yourself by doubling the tags for Peaches Ridge, most guys are going to hunt the Little Naches over the Taneum, thus creating more "crowds" as you put in your letter in that specific GMU.

 

This doesn't even deserve a response.  If you can't see that a general season in the Little Naches would have far more people in it that my "proposed permit only system" then you havn't done your research properly.  

SAWBUCK:  I'm not a trophy hunter by any means.  I just want quality hunting.  I'd rather hunt 2-3 out of 4 years with quality hunting then every year with our current horrid hunting.  Quality hunting to me is being able to see animals that I can harvest.  I don't see many spikes and the spikes I have seen get chased away by bigger bulls.  I also hike way into the high country to get away from the crowds.  I'm just sick of paying a bunch of money to the WDFW without getting any return on my investment.  I want more bang for my buck.

[Wile E. Hunter]

High Country I don't think very many people connect with predators while out hunting.  At least I've never seen a camp with a predator in it.  I'd be willing to bet that 90% of predators taken are by the hard corps guys that predator hunt during the off season.  I personally know guys that smoke 50-70 yotes a year.

   That'd be me!

[colockumelk]

Heck yeah Wiley Hunter.  Guys like you rock.  I think most big game hunters don't realize how much tougher predators are to hunt. 

Scroll down to Muleyguy's post.  He said it very very well.  About what's going to happen to our hunting here whether we like it or not. 

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,45066.45.html