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Author Topic: Police ticket man who wore gun in store  (Read 10369 times)

Offline duckaholic

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Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« on: March 20, 2010, 08:30:53 PM »
Police ticket man who wore gun in store
Visible handgun alarmed someone, police say

By John Branton
Columbian staff writer

Friday, March 19, 2010
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A man who was seen in a Vancouver supermarket with a handgun visible in a holster — prompting a call to 911 on Friday — was ticketed and released with a court date, police said.

Shortly after 4 p.m., officers were sent to the Albertsons store at 5000 E. Fourth Plain Blvd., said Sgt. Greg Raquer with the Vancouver Police Department.

When officers approached the man who wore the gun he was cooperative. The loaded gun’s holster had two ammo magazines attached to it, said Officer Ilia Botvinnik.

Officers explained the law to the man, gave him a ticket for alleged unlawful carrying of a weapon and released him.

Under the law, Raquer said, a person can be ticketed if his display of a gun alarms people.

“I guess you could liken it to people yelling ‘Fire!’ in a movie theater,” Raquer said. “People get alarmed.”

He added, “Most responsible people don’t display their firearm in public.”

Had the man worn a coat, no one would have noticed the gun, Raquer said.

In that event, however, the gun would have been considered concealed, which is illegal unless the person had a concealed weapons permit, Botvinnik said.

The man in Albertsons did have a concealed weapons permit, although it doesn’t apply to open carrying, Botvinnik said.

Raquer declined to release the man’s name, saying the police report hadn’t been completed.

Vancouver police have had several such calls recently.

The state law that applies to the Albertsons case is RCW 9.41.270, Botvinnik said.

That law says: “It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.”

The text of the entire law, including exceptions such as carrying a firearm in your own home or place of business, can be read at http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.as
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Offline Ridgeratt

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2010, 09:00:57 PM »

Offline ADAMS

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2010, 09:01:43 PM »
Washington is an open carry state.

The operative langauge here is:

... in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

Just because someone was alarmed does not mean that their alarm was warranted.  A lawyer will get this dismissed. The cited man will fight this because it is a gross misdemeanor requiring that an offender lose their CPL.

Opencarry.org is already all over this:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/40666.html
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 10:15:31 PM by ADAMS »

Offline satchel3006

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2010, 09:06:37 PM »
unless the guy was waving the gun around how was it alarming? i think the law needs to be changed so that this kinda stuff doesnt happen should be changed to brandishing or something like that would warrent a ticket not just carrying a gun in and alarming fashion (whatever that means) imo

Offline markts

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2010, 09:09:03 PM »
Alarming fashion :dunno: :dunno:

Offline bobcat

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2010, 09:26:33 PM »
Stupid people, they should be glad to have armed citizens in public places, in case of some lunatic coming in the store and wanting to kill a bunch of people, here's somebody that would have a chance of killing the bad guy and preventing others from being killed. Instead they call the cops because they're afraid of guns. Idiots. Just unbelievable. If the guy was intending to harm someone he would likely have had the gun concealed.

Offline duckaholic

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2010, 09:37:53 PM »
 :mor: :stup:
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Offline kennedy244

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2010, 09:46:01 PM »
I see stupid people >:(

Offline ADAMS

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2010, 09:46:53 PM »
"Stupid people, they should be glad to have armed citizens in public places ..."

I agree but the stupid people I blame here are the police.  Who are supposed to know better.  Several other WA police agencies have training that specifically covers such situations.  Some agencies have adopted the following:

In order to support an enforcement action under this law the officer must be able to articulate (describe in a convincing manner) malicious intent by the suspect or circumstances that reasonably cause alarm to the public. In either case, because open carry in Washington is presumably legal, the articulation must include something beyond mere, open possession.

See the following Training Bulletins:

http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=f1b316411fd4af474926f506a95ec282&action=downloads;cat=1



« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 09:58:35 PM by ADAMS »

Offline bobcat

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2010, 10:28:54 PM »
I read the city of Olympia training bulletin. Interesting. So the police in many cities are actually being specifically told that they need to uphold the Constitution.

I also was reading the thread on the Open Carry forum. The wife of the Vancouver man who was ticketed just posted on there and said the one thing the newspaper article did not say was that the Vancouver Police also confiscated her husband's hangdun.   :bash:

Offline JackOfAllTrades

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2010, 10:30:46 PM »
Quote
the officer must be able to articulate (describe in a convincing manner) malicious intent by the suspect


Yes, officer needs to brush up on the RCW.

Procecutor... I imagine, will throw this one out.

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Offline bobcat

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2010, 11:56:09 PM »
There was no law broken, of course he should not have received a ticket. It's a person's constitutional right to open carry in this state. Doesn't matter if it scares somebody or if somebody thinks it's irresponsible for some reason. Why don't the police conceal their weapons?

Offline carpsniperg2

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2010, 12:04:20 AM »
what crazy $hit, that is just unreal no laws were broken it should be thrown out and they should pay his lawyer fees and pay him for the time he misses from work :twocents: >:(
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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2010, 12:10:51 AM »
I suspect his firearm will be returned when the prosecutor drops the charge...
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Offline duckaholic

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Re: Police ticket man who wore gun in store
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2010, 12:27:33 AM »
I suspect his firearm will be returned when the prosecutor drops the charge...
it should have never have even been taken from his possession let alone confiscated.

and just out of curiosity when did it become irresponsible to practice constitutional right? i open carry every day of the week but find it weird that i am however a very responsible adult, or maybe i was wrong because i practice my right as a American and carry my side arm openly.

..oh and yes i do have a c.p.l.   
gun control means use two hands

 


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