good day 4 the tribe

[bearhunter99]

I paint with the widest brush of all.   I think we should be treated as one, no special treatment equals no prejudice.  I am a citizen of the United States.  If you are then you should be treated like another citizen.  Same taxes, same rules.   If you are not a citizen, then GET OUT, your visit is over.

AMEN!

[Elkaholic daWg]

When were Elk introduced to Washington??

They have been reintroduced several times, but elk have always been in Washington.

 In Washington,but not on the Colockum

 As for the Colockum the Coffin family brought them in  in the early 1900's and the white folks could not even hunt the area until the early to mid 50's since the land was privately owned.


 I saw an article of the Ellensburg Daily record circa 1953 or 54 announcing the opening of the Colockum area to hunters that year. The coffins moved to Yakima,in the late 1800's and ran sheep on the Colockum for years,owning THOUSANDS of acres in the area..

Hey all you Cougs...Kudos to your alma mater for having these documents!


http://www.wsulibs.wsu.edu/holland/masc/finders/cg405.htm



  
Washington State University Libraries
Manuscripts, Archives, and Special Collections
Pullman, WA 99164-5610 USA
(509) 335-6691
Inquiries

Cage 405
Coffin Family Papers, 1864-1977

The papers of the H. Stanley Coffin Family were donated to the Washington State University Libraries by H. Stanley Coffin III in July 1977 (77-39). The collection was processed from June to November 1979 by Pat Graham Pidcock.


Number of containers 15
Linear feet of shelf space 19
Approximate number of items 12,340

PERSONAL AND BUSINESS HISTORY

For over fifty years, the firm of Coffin Brothers, Incorporated, dominated the livestock industry in central Washington, the wholesale grocery business in the Yakima Valley, and a variety of other financial enterprises. Coffin Brothers became the core of a family owned group of business ventures. The principal founder of the family fortunes was H. (Harvard) Stanley Coffin, born at The Dalles, Oregon, on September 14, 1869. He attended local public school, the Wasco Academy, and a business college. At age fourteen he began working in the warehouse of McFarland and French, General Merchandisers. Four years later, he moved up the Columbia River to Arlington, Oregon, where he worked with his brother, Arthur Coffin at the Coffin-McFarland Company warehouse. Stanley and another brother, Lester, learned the business quickly, and proceeded to purchase a quarter interest in the firm which was then renamed Arthur Coffin and Brothers.

Recognizing central Washington's potential for growth, the brothers moved their business to Yakima about 1893. Aided by their commercial connections in San Francisco, Portland, and on Puget Sound, they conducted a thriving business with farmers and stockmen, and, increasingly with Indians. As a result of this early association, Stanley became friends with the Indians. He learned to speak their languages, to share their respect for horses, and to participate in their ceremonies. Later he was made an honorary member of the Yakima Tribe.

The three-way partnership was renamed Coffin Brothers, and in 1903 it became a licensed corporation in the State of Washington. Their success in Yakima led to the opening of several branch stores. Using the name "The Idaho Store Company," outlets were established in Lewiston, Kamiah, Nezperce, Forest, Filer, and Lapwai in Idaho. Another store was established in Seattle which catered to the needs of miners enroute to Alaska. Additional retail stores were opened in Prosser, Mabton, Kennewick, and Toppenish in central Washington. Retailing, however, proved less profitable, so the firm concentrated on the Yakima wholesale business. In 1954, the wholesale business, the Yakima Grocery Company, was transferred to Stanley's niece and nephew, John Wenner and Mary Alice Wenner.

In addition to merchandise and groceries, the brothers expanded into a major livestock operation. In 1895, two years after moving to Yakima, the Coffins imported two bands of ewes from Oregon. Within a few years the sheep venture had grown to such an extent that for a time Stanley was forced to devote his full attention to the bands, although he remained a full partner in the merchandise business. Following the premature deaths of Lester (ca. 1918) and Arthur (ca. 1920), Stanley assumed full responsibility for the entire business operation.

Stanley Coffin married Anna Wenner of Canton, Ohio, and they raised three daughters--Dorothy (d. 1924), Mary Elizabeth, and Margaret-- and a son--Harvard Stanley Coffin II. Additional family history can be found in Edson Dow's .us Passes to the North: History of the Wenatchee Mountains (Wenatchee, WA: Outdoor Publishing Company, 1963).

H. Stanley Coffin II was born on December 6, 1897 in Yakima. After attending Yakima schools and Columbia University, he graduated from Harvard University in 1921 with a bachelor of science degree. In 1924, he married Caroline Van Vliet of Yakima. Their daughter, Nancy was born in 1925 and the following year a son, Harvard Stanley Coffin III, was born. In 1921, Stanley II assumed management of the grocery business, and following his father's lead, became the central figure in the family's business interests. He was president of Coffin Brothers (liquidated 1954), the Yakima Grocery Company (passed to the Wenners in 1954), and the Coffin Sheep Company (reduced in 1956), in addition to holding a controlling interest in a number of smaller livestock companies. Mr. Coffin was a founder and director of the West Side National Bank of Yakima and a director of the Home Federal Savings and Loan Association.

Over the years the Coffin Family controlled substantial real estate holdings. Before 1909, they had acquired 50,000 deeded acres and 50,000 leased acres between Ellensburg and Wenatchee, known as the Cape Horn/Mountain Home Ranch. Eventually, Lester Coffin's descendents came to manage this property. Stanley Coffin I took control of the Coffin/Babcock range (also called the West Bar Ranch) which was located on the Columbia River. The family's Wenas Creek lands included the Mt. Vale Ranch, the McCabe Place, and the Lee Land ranch which totaled approximately 16,000 acres. Lying west of Yakima, the Cold Creek Ranch contained about 17,000 acres of well-watered grazing land. The Horse Heaven Ranch, inclusive of the Wilmert place and the Blakely place, was located south of Kennewick and was comprised of 30,000 deeded acres plus adjacent leased pastures. In addition to small deeded holdings (i.e., city lots, beach plots) the family also controlled various tracts of leased acreage.

Both Stanley I and Stanley II made significant contributions to the development of Yakima and the Pacific Northwest. As early members of the Washington Wool Growers Association and as leading sheep producers, the Coffins imported Corriedale and Romney sheep from Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand to upgrade local stock. Also they aided industry novices with both financial aid and moral support. Beginning in 1920, the Coffins were loyal Rotarians, both father and son serving terms as president. In addition to civic projects, the Stanley Park residential area in Yakima was developed by the Coffins. In 1940, at the age of 70, Stanley I passed away. Stanley II followed in 1970 at the age of 72. H. Stanley Coffin III, a practicing Yakima physician, continues to manage the family holdings.

ARRANGEMENT AND DESCRIPTION

Upon arrival at Washington State University, the Coffin papers contained several different filing systems plus considerable loose material. To unify the collection, six major subject series were established and the various filing systems were integrated into these series. With the exception of four boxes of unfoldered material which has been organized by topic and interfiled into the series, the original order within the folders was maintained. In each series and/or subseries, the folders are arranged alphabetically.

Throughout the papers the difficulty in discriminating between the signatures of Stanley I and Stanley II is encountered. During the nineteen year period between the time of Stanley II's assuming an active role in the business (1921) and the year of Stanley I's death (1940), their signatures are indistinguishable. The signature of Stanley III is usually differentiated by the use of a wide-tipped, black ink pen. Another problem in evaluating the papers is the result of the original filing of records of different Coffin enterprises in common folders. This may be due to the concurrent existence of Coffin Brothers, Yakima Grocery Company, and Coffin Sheep Company and to the interlocking roles of individuals within these entities.

The first series, General Office Files, dates from 1906 through 1917 and is arranged in three subseries. The first subseries, correspondence, deals with labor recruitment; employee instruction and rural operation reports; local, county, state, and federal agencies; civic projects; industry organizations and individuals of a service nature (i.e. lawyers, accountants, insurance agents); family correspondence; and clippings and journal articles of personal, family, business, or historical nature. In addition to the Coffins, Stella Pearl Brady, corporation secretary for approximately seventeen years, contributed substantially to the volume of correspondence.

The second subseries is comprised of three court suits related to the Horse Heaven Ranch. In the case of Coffin vrs Deffenbaugh, real estate boundaries were contested. The second case, Coffin .us v Moch, a former employee was charged with cattle misappropriation. The final case, Hellberg .us v Coffin, dealt with road right-of-way. In the third subseries, Livestock, 1906-1975, sheep are the greatest concern, but cattle and horses receive considerable attention. Materials include livestock industry correspondence and bulletins, livestock feeding and health data, and livestock registration papers.

The second major series, Financial, extends from 1899 through 1975 and contains eight subseries. Bills, the first and largest subseries, concerns livestock and real estate maintenance, livestock purchases, office upkeep, and other expenses. The Coffin Brothers liquidation papers make up the second subseries while the third subseries contains the papers of the Anna.enner Coffin estate. The fourth subseries, income, documents the sales of livestock, wool, and grain. The fifth subseries, investments, contains stock certificates and other papers which reflect the variety of financial ventures undertaken by the Coffins. The check register and the five ledgers that comprise the sixth subseries span the years 1908 through 1967 although they are not inclusive for all those years. Inventories, receipts, budgets, financial pocket books, and worksheets are included in the seventh subseries. The last financial subseries contains income and real estate tax data.

Dating 1864 through 1977, the third and largest series, Real Estate, evidences the extensive land holdings of the Coffin family. The first of the six subseries, correspondence and general real estate files, deals with easements and range and wheat-land leases. Documents, the second subseries, is largely property title abstracts. The third subseries concerns the maintenance and improvements, chiefly for irrigation, made by the Coffins on both deeded and leased land. Papers related to land purchases, sales, and use comprise the fourth through sixth subseries.

Thirty-seven personal/business logs with daily entries by Stanley I and Stanley II make up the fourth series. These day books date from 1899, skip to 1931, and are nearly complete through 1969 with only 1944 and 1947 lacking. Depicting the major real estate holdings and the prime livestock are the photographs in the fifth series. The last major series consists of maps which also illustrate the Coffin real estate. Aside from two bound atlases of Benton County, the series contains an oversize folder of Benton County maps of varied quality, sources, types and dates. Numerous maps of Yakima city and county are included in this series in an oversize folder.

Although the records may appear to be complete, a cautionary note is in order. For the most part, the records of the Coffin enterprises are not continuous and are not entirely complete. There are apparent gaps within series and subseries--both with respect to time and type of material. Records in a single folder often cross over organizational boundaries, thus making it difficult to trace the activities of a single unit within the Coffin financial hierarchy. For example, while a folder label may specify one entity of the Coffin enterprise, it may also contain information dealing with several other aspects.

SERIES LIST

[bearhunter99]

I paint with the widest brush of all.   I think we should be treated as one, no special treatment equals no prejudice.  I am a citizen of the United States.  If you are then you should be treated like another citizen.  Same taxes, same rules.   If you are not a citizen, then GET OUT, your visit is over.

When did we all start paying the same taxes?  Pretty sure it is based on income.  Wait thats not fair   Yes, it would be great if everyone was treated the same, realistic probably not.  

Ahem, there is a difference between paying your taxes (whatever bracket that may be) and not paying ANY taxes and getting government subsidies to boot.

There are many options to manage this, just nobody wants to be the one to enforce them because they will be the ONE who persecuted the Native Americans again.  Make em go non motorized with stick and string, close the gates when the seasons are closed, do something, anything before the herds are decimated further.  Tribal leaders need to start taking heed of their perceptions and make some changes, until then  

[runamuk]

I paint with the widest brush of all.   I think we should be treated as one, no special treatment equals no prejudice.  I am a citizen of the United States.  If you are then you should be treated like another citizen.  Same taxes, same rules.   If you are not a citizen, then GET OUT, your visit is over.

When did we all start paying the same taxes?  Pretty sure it is based on income.  Wait thats not fair   Yes, it would be great if everyone was treated the same, realistic probably not.  

not realistic because of those who refuse to become equal.  I apply this to all the nazi feminists as well who went right past equal rights to expecting special rights for being female.... Equal is not the same as special and as long at entitlements continue to be handed out to special interest groups we will never have a society of equals and will always suffer the effects of discrimination and racism.

The tribes on the west side have done a fabulous job of creating an artificial population of hatchery fish that allows them to maintain massive harvest rates for profit while screwing sportsmen and the native fish populations, yep real stewardship   again not every single tribe or tribal member but many partake and reap benefits from things none of the rest of the population has access to this is discrimination.  I also do not receive an annual stipend for existing discrimination based on race so racism, yet somewhere we have native blood in my family...oh and I am female and I dont blame all men today for what men did in the past I got the ef over it...get sick of being told by 20 something tribal members that "I" took their land BS neither did my parents or grand parents .  Difference is I cannot legally operate a casino and I dont get 10k-40k a year for having been born   the treaties are outdated and the federal government needs to wise the heck up and deal with it this country is self destructing due to greed.

[Practical Approach]

When were Elk introduced to Washington??

They have been reintroduced several times, but elk have always been in Washington.

 In Washington,but not on the Colockum

 As for the Colockum the Coffin family brought them in  in the early 1900's and the white folks could not even hunt the area until the early to mid 50's since the land was privately owned.


 I saw an article of the Ellensburg Daily record circa 1953 or 54 announcing the opening of the Colockum area to hunters that year. The coffins moved to Yakima,in the late 1800's and ran sheep on the Colockum for years,owning THOUSANDS of acres in the area..

Hey all you Cougs...Kudos to your alma mater for having these documents!


http://www.wsulibs.wsu.edu/holland/masc/finders/cg405.htm



  
Washington State University Libraries
Manuscripts, Archives, and Special Collections
Pullman, WA 99164-5610 USA
(509) 335-6691
Inquiries

Cage 405
Coffin Family Papers, 1864-1977

The papers of the H. Stanley Coffin Family were donated to the Washington State University Libraries by H. Stanley Coffin III in July 1977 (77-39). The collection was processed from June to November 1979 by Pat Graham Pidcock.


Number of containers 15
Linear feet of shelf space 19
Approximate number of items 12,340

PERSONAL AND BUSINESS HISTORY

For over fifty years, the firm of Coffin Brothers, Incorporated, dominated the livestock industry in central Washington, the wholesale grocery business in the Yakima Valley, and a variety of other financial enterprises. Coffin Brothers became the core of a family owned group of business ventures. The principal founder of the family fortunes was H. (Harvard) Stanley Coffin, born at The Dalles, Oregon, on September 14, 1869. He attended local public school, the Wasco Academy, and a business college. At age fourteen he began working in the warehouse of McFarland and French, General Merchandisers. Four years later, he moved up the Columbia River to Arlington, Oregon, where he worked with his brother, Arthur Coffin at the Coffin-McFarland Company warehouse. Stanley and another brother, Lester, learned the business quickly, and proceeded to purchase a quarter interest in the firm which was then renamed Arthur Coffin and Brothers.

Recognizing central Washington's potential for growth, the brothers moved their business to Yakima about 1893. Aided by their commercial connections in San Francisco, Portland, and on Puget Sound, they conducted a thriving business with farmers and stockmen, and, increasingly with Indians. As a result of this early association, Stanley became friends with the Indians. He learned to speak their languages, to share their respect for horses, and to participate in their ceremonies. Later he was made an honorary member of the Yakima Tribe.

The three-way partnership was renamed Coffin Brothers, and in 1903 it became a licensed corporation in the State of Washington. Their success in Yakima led to the opening of several branch stores. Using the name "The Idaho Store Company," outlets were established in Lewiston, Kamiah, Nezperce, Forest, Filer, and Lapwai in Idaho. Another store was established in Seattle which catered to the needs of miners enroute to Alaska. Additional retail stores were opened in Prosser, Mabton, Kennewick, and Toppenish in central Washington. Retailing, however, proved less profitable, so the firm concentrated on the Yakima wholesale business. In 1954, the wholesale business, the Yakima Grocery Company, was transferred to Stanley's niece and nephew, John Wenner and Mary Alice Wenner.

In addition to merchandise and groceries, the brothers expanded into a major livestock operation. In 1895, two years after moving to Yakima, the Coffins imported two bands of ewes from Oregon. Within a few years the sheep venture had grown to such an extent that for a time Stanley was forced to devote his full attention to the bands, although he remained a full partner in the merchandise business. Following the premature deaths of Lester (ca. 1918) and Arthur (ca. 1920), Stanley assumed full responsibility for the entire business operation.

Stanley Coffin married Anna Wenner of Canton, Ohio, and they raised three daughters--Dorothy (d. 1924), Mary Elizabeth, and Margaret-- and a son--Harvard Stanley Coffin II. Additional family history can be found in Edson Dow's .us Passes to the North: History of the Wenatchee Mountains (Wenatchee, WA: Outdoor Publishing Company, 1963).

H. Stanley Coffin II was born on December 6, 1897 in Yakima. After attending Yakima schools and Columbia University, he graduated from Harvard University in 1921 with a bachelor of science degree. In 1924, he married Caroline Van Vliet of Yakima. Their daughter, Nancy was born in 1925 and the following year a son, Harvard Stanley Coffin III, was born. In 1921, Stanley II assumed management of the grocery business, and following his father's lead, became the central figure in the family's business interests. He was president of Coffin Brothers (liquidated 1954), the Yakima Grocery Company (passed to the Wenners in 1954), and the Coffin Sheep Company (reduced in 1956), in addition to holding a controlling interest in a number of smaller livestock companies. Mr. Coffin was a founder and director of the West Side National Bank of Yakima and a director of the Home Federal Savings and Loan Association.

Over the years the Coffin Family controlled substantial real estate holdings. Before 1909, they had acquired 50,000 deeded acres and 50,000 leased acres between Ellensburg and Wenatchee, known as the Cape Horn/Mountain Home Ranch. Eventually, Lester Coffin's descendents came to manage this property. Stanley Coffin I took control of the Coffin/Babcock range (also called the West Bar Ranch) which was located on the Columbia River. The family's Wenas Creek lands included the Mt. Vale Ranch, the McCabe Place, and the Lee Land ranch which totaled approximately 16,000 acres. Lying west of Yakima, the Cold Creek Ranch contained about 17,000 acres of well-watered grazing land. The Horse Heaven Ranch, inclusive of the Wilmert place and the Blakely place, was located south of Kennewick and was comprised of 30,000 deeded acres plus adjacent leased pastures. In addition to small deeded holdings (i.e., city lots, beach plots) the family also controlled various tracts of leased acreage.

Both Stanley I and Stanley II made significant contributions to the development of Yakima and the Pacific Northwest. As early members of the Washington Wool Growers Association and as leading sheep producers, the Coffins imported Corriedale and Romney sheep from Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand to upgrade local stock. Also they aided industry novices with both financial aid and moral support. Beginning in 1920, the Coffins were loyal Rotarians, both father and son serving terms as president. In addition to civic projects, the Stanley Park residential area in Yakima was developed by the Coffins. In 1940, at the age of 70, Stanley I passed away. Stanley II followed in 1970 at the age of 72. H. Stanley Coffin III, a practicing Yakima physician, continues to manage the family holdings.

ARRANGEMENT AND DESCRIPTION

Upon arrival at Washington State University, the Coffin papers contained several different filing systems plus considerable loose material. To unify the collection, six major subject series were established and the various filing systems were integrated into these series. With the exception of four boxes of unfoldered material which has been organized by topic and interfiled into the series, the original order within the folders was maintained. In each series and/or subseries, the folders are arranged alphabetically.

Throughout the papers the difficulty in discriminating between the signatures of Stanley I and Stanley II is encountered. During the nineteen year period between the time of Stanley II's assuming an active role in the business (1921) and the year of Stanley I's death (1940), their signatures are indistinguishable. The signature of Stanley III is usually differentiated by the use of a wide-tipped, black ink pen. Another problem in evaluating the papers is the result of the original filing of records of different Coffin enterprises in common folders. This may be due to the concurrent existence of Coffin Brothers, Yakima Grocery Company, and Coffin Sheep Company and to the interlocking roles of individuals within these entities.

The first series, General Office Files, dates from 1906 through 1917 and is arranged in three subseries. The first subseries, correspondence, deals with labor recruitment; employee instruction and rural operation reports; local, county, state, and federal agencies; civic projects; industry organizations and individuals of a service nature (i.e. lawyers, accountants, insurance agents); family correspondence; and clippings and journal articles of personal, family, business, or historical nature. In addition to the Coffins, Stella Pearl Brady, corporation secretary for approximately seventeen years, contributed substantially to the volume of correspondence.

The second subseries is comprised of three court suits related to the Horse Heaven Ranch. In the case of Coffin vrs Deffenbaugh, real estate boundaries were contested. The second case, Coffin .us v Moch, a former employee was charged with cattle misappropriation. The final case, Hellberg .us v Coffin, dealt with road right-of-way. In the third subseries, Livestock, 1906-1975, sheep are the greatest concern, but cattle and horses receive considerable attention. Materials include livestock industry correspondence and bulletins, livestock feeding and health data, and livestock registration papers.

The second major series, Financial, extends from 1899 through 1975 and contains eight subseries. Bills, the first and largest subseries, concerns livestock and real estate maintenance, livestock purchases, office upkeep, and other expenses. The Coffin Brothers liquidation papers make up the second subseries while the third subseries contains the papers of the Anna.enner Coffin estate. The fourth subseries, income, documents the sales of livestock, wool, and grain. The fifth subseries, investments, contains stock certificates and other papers which reflect the variety of financial ventures undertaken by the Coffins. The check register and the five ledgers that comprise the sixth subseries span the years 1908 through 1967 although they are not inclusive for all those years. Inventories, receipts, budgets, financial pocket books, and worksheets are included in the seventh subseries. The last financial subseries contains income and real estate tax data.

Dating 1864 through 1977, the third and largest series, Real Estate, evidences the extensive land holdings of the Coffin family. The first of the six subseries, correspondence and general real estate files, deals with easements and range and wheat-land leases. Documents, the second subseries, is largely property title abstracts. The third subseries concerns the maintenance and improvements, chiefly for irrigation, made by the Coffins on both deeded and leased land. Papers related to land purchases, sales, and use comprise the fourth through sixth subseries.

Thirty-seven personal/business logs with daily entries by Stanley I and Stanley II make up the fourth series. These day books date from 1899, skip to 1931, and are nearly complete through 1969 with only 1944 and 1947 lacking. Depicting the major real estate holdings and the prime livestock are the photographs in the fifth series. The last major series consists of maps which also illustrate the Coffin real estate. Aside from two bound atlases of Benton County, the series contains an oversize folder of Benton County maps of varied quality, sources, types and dates. Numerous maps of Yakima city and county are included in this series in an oversize folder.

Although the records may appear to be complete, a cautionary note is in order. For the most part, the records of the Coffin enterprises are not continuous and are not entirely complete. There are apparent gaps within series and subseries--both with respect to time and type of material. Records in a single folder often cross over organizational boundaries, thus making it difficult to trace the activities of a single unit within the Coffin financial hierarchy. For example, while a folder label may specify one entity of the Coffin enterprise, it may also contain information dealing with several other aspects.

SERIES LIST

Taken from the WDFW Herd Plan for the Clockum
Historic Distribution
Zooarchaeological data from the Columbia Basin suggest elk were present and utilized by early
inhabitants (McCorquodale 1985, Dixon et al. 1996). By the late-1800s elk may have been
extirpated from the Region (McCorquodale 1985). The current Colockum elk population
developed from the reintroduction of Rocky Mountain elk (Cervus elaphus nelsoni) from
Yellowstone National Park in 1913 and 1915, which significantly contributed to any remnant
animals in the area (Bryant and Maser 1982).

[boneaddict]

Nickle and dime all you want Practical Approach, but as long as any group has entitlements or is treated differently, then there will be prejudice and hatred or any other stack of emotion.   I would love for there to be a flat tax.  I would love for there to be no affirmative action.   We are equals and we should be treated as such.  

[whiteeyes]

Illegal immigration is not a new problem Native Americans used to call it white people.
The Indian haters on this web site are amazing, you have people moving here from our southern borders buy the truck loads people from the eastern country's buy the plane load living off our system buy the thousands and not contributing back.
The Tribes do more for conservation than most even have a clue about. But throw a picture or comment about a Tribe shooting a animal and all hell breaks loss.
I spend alot of time up in the Colockum and Nanem area and have yet to see the truck loads of elk being exported out of those areas. I know for a fact that the Advanced Hunter program in that area is taking way more elk out of the system than we as hunters can imagine. This country is becoming more separated buy the day and it wont be long till nothing will be as we see it today. But than again that will be the Indians fault as well.

Peace  

[300magman]

whiteeyes...

last time I checked the Indians no longer live in teepee's and sure as hell dont use bow and arrow.........
Oh and as for the whites invading the native land........ we fought a war and we won last time I checked.......

All we as hunters want is equal rights when it comes to hunting............

as for the illegal immigrants........thats a whole other topic......................

[woodswalker]

Well its sad to hear what the Yakama Tribe has become.  What imprints their examples leave on others. 

You see its guys like you whom I hopr to never run into when I am exercising my Tribal rights.

But you know what I think I have... or a relative there of.  I have had pistols/rifles shot over our camp, slang words yelled to us... threatened .. horns honked when we were hunting.  4-wheelers push us off the trail.  etc etc etc. I can go on. 

I will just sit back and read the ignorance and false accusations of this thread.  Please keep it here.  I am learning a lot.  I will try not to reply anymore.  Carry on... thanks for your time

Motcha, I judge a man(or a tribe) on his(their) actions.  If you play fair and dont ABUSE your treaty rights I dont care.  EVEN if you do take game year round as is your Treaty right...but dont be wastefull about it.  Dont go shoot all the trophy bulls you can find JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN.  Dont strip the salmon hens of the skeins and throw the fish on the bank to rot.  Dont gillnet gank to bank and throw away the "too small" fish that are killed in the nets.  I fully understand that NOT ALL tribal members comport themselves in this manner...but enough DO to leave a REALLY bad taste when we see it again and again.  Start by policing your own.  Tell the Tribal councils to crack down on the wastage, dont take more than you NEED. Dont go shoot all the trophy bulls you can find JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN and then display them at the Sportsmans show and rub our noses in the fact that you CAN while we are restricted. SHARE the Tribal harvest info...most won't because they KNOW it is abusive.

Dont make the vast majority of us who pay for wildlife management feel like we are being RIPPED OFF by certain folks with certain special privelege.

Do that, work the Tribal fisheries and game agents WITH WDFW, share the info on Tribal harvest.

I grew up in a place with tribes all around, folks pretty much like me.  We all mostly get along and 90% of the tribal members i know personally are straight up folks.  There are a few who abuse it.

I'll turn in a poacher...no matter what color or affiliation....If the tribes dealt with their abusers it would go a long ways towards calming things down.

[WSU]

The problem, as I see it, with the "equals" argument that always gets pushed is that this "equals" approach completely ignores history and the facts regarding how the treaties came to be.  The treaties, and hunting and fishing rights that came along with them, were born out of a deal struck by our government and the various tribes.  It was more desireable to enter into treaties than it was to attempt to prosecute a war.  In exchange for all the land we, as the U.S., now own the tribes reserved some rights.  It's important to note a few things here.  First, they RESERVED the rights.  It is not an "entitlement."  They are rights that existed prior to the treaties.  They were given nothing.  They were simply keeping rights they already had.  Second, we were given something that is almost beyond value in today's dollars.  We got all the land you and I live in.  Want to end the rights of the tribe?  Maybe we should end the deal we cut.  You all give back your houses and land, your employer can do the same, as can the government, and the tribes can quit having hunting and fishing rights.  Sound like a good deal?  Or, you can simply disavow your word and the word of country.  We all agree that not living up to your word is dishonorable and bad, right?  Especially when the legal foundation of our country is built upon that very principle, right?

The other thing this "equal" argument ignores is the legal footing upon which tribal hunting rights sit.  Anyone ever read the Marshall Trilogy?  Any familiar with 300 years of constitutional caselaw involved?  The true facts giving rise to where we are today?  No need right, 'cause someone posted a picture of dead elk in an unidentified pickup.

Here is an article that give anyone who cares to educate themselves a bit a little hint of background.  It explains why the state "won't" challenge the tribes and halt the "slaughter."  It certainly won't give a full understanding, and certainly won't change many peoples' minds, but it may give a bit more perspective.  I'm off the soap box for now...

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990523&slug=bull23

[boneaddict]

This country is becoming more separated buy the day and it wont be long till nothing will be as we see it today.

Thats a dang true statement, and NO it won't be the indians at fault.  It is ALL of our fault.  That tends to be why I approach this subject the way I do.  We each have a part in this and thats why I challenge you to do your part.  Just like I do mine.  When I am pointing my finger at you, there are four more pointing back at me.  

[boneaddict]

Times change, treaties change. Nations go to war, leaders change , rules change.  Nothing is set in stone.  We as a people unified protect this big rock, vote for this big rock and are here to preserve this big rock.  You are either an American living on American soil, and defended by red American blood, or you are an invader and should be treated as such.  My ancestors had rights and ways and those are either followed or changed as the environment changes.  My reliogion also does not make me better than someone else or give me special rights.  I work on Sunday whether I like it or not.  My ancestors may have kicked blacks around like they were dogs, but that doesn't give them the ability to do so as we speak.  Times change.  A civil war was fought to change that.  Is that really necessary in order for us to be equals.  REALLY?   This arguement is really stupid.  There will be a group of people with entitlements or rights that allow them to take more than they should, and there will be those that hate them for it.   Literally it is going to take someone getting killed before the Feds step in, and that is just plain dumb.

[GoldTip]

Special rights for specific groups of people does nothing more than perpetuate racism and hate, period.  Bone is right, your either an American or your not.  If you live here become one and get the SAME rights we all have and are open to us, or leave.  Whether your white, pink, black, crippled, brown, gray, gay, the green lady Captian Kirk had sex with, yellow, albino, club footed or just plain stupid, if YOU feel YOU deserve special rights, then YOU are the reason for the divison among people.  It needs to stop.

[WSU]

Special rights for specific groups of people does nothing more than perpetuate racism and hate, period.  Bone is right, your either an American or your not.  If you live here become one and get the SAME rights we all have and are open to us, or leave.  Whether your white, pink, black, crippled, brown, gray, gay, the green lady Captian Kirk had sex with, yellow, albino, club footed or just plain stupid, if YOU feel YOU deserve special rights, then YOU are the reason for the divison among people.  It needs to stop.

With all due respect, did you or boneaddict read the article?  If so, care to directly address any of the facts contained in the article?

[runamuk]

The problem, as I see it, with the "equals" argument that always gets pushed is that this "equals" approach completely ignores history and the facts regarding how the treaties came to be.  The treaties, and hunting and fishing rights that came along with them, were born out of a deal struck by our government and the various tribes.  It was more desireable to enter into treaties than it was to attempt to prosecute a war.  In exchange for all the land we, as the U.S., now own the tribes reserved some rights.  It's important to note a few things here.  First, they RESERVED the rights.  It is not an "entitlement."  They are rights that existed prior to the treaties.  They were given nothing.  They were simply keeping rights they already had.  Second, we were given something that is almost beyond value in today's dollars.  We got all the land you and I live in.  Want to end the rights of the tribe?  Maybe we should end the deal we cut.  You all give back your houses and land, your employer can do the same, as can the government, and the tribes can quit having hunting and fishing rights.  Sound like a good deal?  Or, you can simply disavow your word and the word of country.  We all agree that not living up to your word is dishonorable and bad, right?  Especially when the legal foundation of our country is built upon that very principle, right?

The other thing this "equal" argument ignores is the legal footing upon which tribal hunting rights sit.  Anyone ever read the Marshall Trilogy?  Any familiar with 300 years of constitutional caselaw involved?  The true facts giving rise to where we are today?  No need right, 'cause someone posted a picture of dead elk in an unidentified pickup.

Here is an article that give anyone who cares to educate themselves a bit a little hint of background.  It explains why the state "won't" challenge the tribes and halt the "slaughter."  It certainly won't give a full understanding, and certainly won't change many peoples' minds, but it may give a bit more perspective.  I'm off the soap box for now...

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990523&slug=bull23

you dont consider it an entitlement to be paid for your existence  you do not have to ever lift a finger and you get 10k-40k depending on your tribal affiliation?  This is money coming from the federal government so i suppose it is simply monopoly money they printed up  and no one who pays taxes is paying those annual stipends.  I guess seeing first hand how this changes people and working with and for people with this mentality has altered my attitude being legally and actively discriminated against at work having it made clear regularly that I am beneath them and seeing inequality based on race has changed my attitude.....

and I haven't read the article been doing other things.....