new info on 4 pt restriction

[DBHAWTHORNE]

It goes to show that a 4 pt APR won't hurt at all. 

[1bugman]

True, They my help, but I question the motives. may have to find a new hunting area. to bad really.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I won't deny. I would be happy with the slightly higher percentage of mature bucks that would result. It's an added bonus.

[millertime89]

Thanks DB. Got him in GMU 121. 

haha no no no.. you got him in 204!

[DBHAWTHORNE]

Yeah...all the big bucks are in 204 from what you guys tell me

[walt]

I hear you DB, I really do.  I just don't buy that an APR is the way to go for the reasons they are selling it, especially for a 5 year trial.  If they want to create an area where hunters can flock to kill a 4 point buck and the local communities can reap the financial benefits that's cool with me, I have plenty of family and friends that will benefit, just don't tell me it's because the herd is in dire straits, or is it because of the ratio, or the predators, or...  If it's about any of those there are much quicker and more effective ways that will have much better long term effects, and if the real goal is to have more trophy bucks roaming around then APR makes even less sense.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I hear you DB, I really do.  I just don't buy that an APR is the way to go for the reasons they are selling it, especially for a 5 year trial.  If they want to create an area where hunters can flock to kill a 4 point buck and the local communities can reap the financial benefits that's cool with me, I have plenty of family and friends that will benefit, just don't tell me it's because the herd is in dire straits, or is it because of the ratio, or the predators, or...  If it's about any of those there are much quicker and more effective ways that will have much better long term effects, and if the real goal is to have more trophy bucks roaming around then APR makes even less sense.

I agree there are quicker ways to recover a herd and like you I don't believe they are in dire straights...which is why I think an APR will be sufficient....of course there are certainly other methods that will be equally effective at restricting harvest to recover the herd.

 There are certainly better ways to have more trophy bucks than an APR. Some counties in Georgia have implemented spread restrictions and had much greater success growing mature bucks than counties with APR. However, from my experience there does seem to be a very slight (but definitely existent) increase in mature bucks in areas with APR's. When it comes to whitetails I haven't seen the issues with APR's that some people see with mule deer. I don't there will be a unit full of big 3pt's running around. When it comes to buck to doe ratios it really depends on where I am at within the unit. In the more agricultural areas it appears to be off balance. In the deep woods it's fairly even.

[walt]

In the more agricultural areas it appears to be off balance. In the deep woods it's fairly even.

Yep, that's what I see too. 

[724wd]

is this going to be across the board, ie, rifle, muzzleloader and archery?

[TeacherMan]

is this going to be across the board, ie, rifle, muzzleloader and archery?

good question, what about does in the archery season.

[Ridgeratt]

is this going to be across the board, ie, rifle, muzzleloader and archery?

good question, what about does in the archery season.

Perhaps another good choice would to be the elimination of the archery chum lines as well.   
This post to the topic isn't intended to "Thread Jack" it but will also do to increase the over all quality of the deer population.

[DBHAWTHORNE]

is this going to be across the board, ie, rifle, muzzleloader and archery?

good question, what about does in the archery season.

Perhaps another good choice would to be the elimination of the archery chum lines as well.   
This post to the topic isn't intended to "Thread Jack" it but will also do to increase the over all quality of the deer population.

"but will also do to increase the over all quality of the deer population." ..... How so?

[bobcat]

I agree- all doe harvest needs to be eliminated, IF the whitetail deer population is really as bad as they say.

For those who say there is no downside to a 4 pt. minimum restriction: what about all the other units in the NE that many hunters will be displaced to, and the additional harvest of bucks that that will be sure to cause?

If it's going to be 4 point minimum, shouldn't it be for ALL the NE GMU's?

[DBHAWTHORNE]

I think a 4pt APR in all GMU's would be nice but I doubt that will happen. I see your point with displacing hunters...but I think it would equal out because for the hunters moving to other units there will likely be a near equal amount of hunters primarily hunting that unit due to the 4pt minimum. I know it would be more appealing to me.

[muleyguy]

BP,

Are you saying that APR was not effective at building a better deer herd south of Spokane? Most of the people seem to like the APR south of Spokane.

what I am saying is that south of spokane is a vastly different unit then north of spokane;  now, HNW can say what he wants, but, nobody that is knowledgeable of the units would say that north of the river units and south of the river units are the same.

They are vastly different;

APR's are less destructive in these situations:

1.  high private ground
2.  thicker vegetation terrain
3.  lower hunter pressure

but, the bottom line is, they always result in the same general problem:  harvest is focused on older age class animals.

I dare say, that more older age class deer would be available south of the river without it........just my opinion..........

if anybody thinks that north of the river is going to equal south of the river whitetail's in 5 yrs with APR's is just wrong.........that seems to be what HNW is saying;
if only we had APR's north of the river, it would be the same as south of the river;

My main problem with APR's is they are just a short term solution to a long term problem in this State, and they inflict a HIGH cost on the structure of the population.

Like any good idea, lets discuss the exit strategy first......

I will go back to the idea of how do you get of APR's?

In 5 yrs, the buck population will consist of a high amount of 1.5 and 2.5 yr old animals;  these are the most vulnerable bucks in the buck group;

if you suddenly open the season to any buck after 5 yrs of APR, you will have a wholesale slaughter of this age class of bucks;  especially with the late season structure that is place.

the reason APR's work is it guarantees a steady recruitmant of 1.5 yr old deer into the 2.5 yr old deer class (the harvest group).

If you open it up, there will be virtually zero bucks that make it past 2.5 yrs old;  you will almost guaranteee that you have lower recruitment into the 3.5 yr old class.

this is why it is a trap;  there is no easy "out" once you institute it;  once you get rid of it, you have to somehow "regulate" the harvest of 1.5 and 2.5 yr old bucks to make sure they don't get all shot.

to say that we will simply "get rid of it" is not realistic....yes, you can get rid of it, but, you will essentially take out two age classes of bucks with it when you do.

define the exit strategy........