Rayonier selling permits to hunt it's land for $225: The Longview Daily News

[cem3434]

http://tdn.com/lifestyles/article_551bcd98-a8fd-11e0-9fc9-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story
Rayonier will sell 175 permits to enter its 31,000-acre Fossil Creek area from Aug. 15 through Dec. 31 for a flat $225.

Hmm lets see.
Rayonier access to Fossil Creek for 31,000 acres for 4.5 months = $225
Hancock to access its Snoqualmie Tree Farm at 90,000 acres year round (except fire closures) = $225.

I'm sorry but it seems like Rayonier is really ripping off those people buying those permits.

It depends on the number of permits.  If there are less permit holders, it makes for better hunting opportunities.

[cem3434]

Dude I can not even read sheet like this ... we all know its coming and we still are doing nothen but reading about it ....The fricken government should step in and TAX THE LIVING FRAKEN CRAP OUT OF THEM !!!!!! and for those who have money to spend on this type of hunting are setting the stage for disaster ...and I would never support such bullsheet knowing it is going again my fellow hunters and its now taking the meaning out of what hunting is all about ... So if you go an support these dumba$$$$$$ please do not come bragging to me about it .... THIS IS BS !!!!!

Capitalism.....it sucks, doesn't it.  Hunting is a privilege in this day and age and not a right like many people think.  None of us like it, but if there is a way to make money off of your hobby then somebody will figure out how. I would guess that most people wouldn't go to work everyday without getting paid, so why should the timber companies open their gates without getting paid? 

The State has figured out how to make money off of us by raising the cost of licenses and offering like 50 different raffles (which reminds me I still need to buy a few) and permit drawings. The timber companies are doing the same thing by charging for access passes.  They own the property and sadly have ever right to try and capitalize off of our hobby like everyone else.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Dude I can not even read sheet like this ... we all know its coming and we still are doing nothen but reading about it ....The fricken government should step in and TAX THE LIVING FRAKEN CRAP OUT OF THEM !!!!!! and for those who have money to spend on this type of hunting are setting the stage for disaster ...and I would never support such bullsheet knowing it is going again my fellow hunters and its now taking the meaning out of what hunting is all about ... So if you go an support these dumba$$$$$$ please do not come bragging to me about it .... THIS IS BS !!!!!

Capitalism.....it sucks, doesn't it.  Hunting is a privilege in this day and age and not a right like many people think.  None of us like it, but if there is a way to make money off of your hobby then somebody will figure out how. I would guess that most people wouldn't go to work everyday without getting paid, so why should the timber companies open their gates without getting paid? 

The State has figured out how to make money off of us by raising the cost of licenses and offering like 50 different raffles (which reminds me I still need to buy a few) and permit drawings. The timber companies are doing the same thing by charging for access passes.  They own the property and sadly have ever right to try and capitalize off of our hobby like everyone else.

Yeah ...Well here is the problem .. there are a few that agree with you and thats what they are seeing so thats why they are now interrested...Which I guess you can not blame them ..but supporting this type of BS will eventually make it a rich mans sport and we all know it so lets just support something so it ends quicker .. Like me for instance I have 2 sons and counting me makes 3 of us hunting .. it cost me 400+ this year in tags and licenses and now If we want to go hunt areas like this it will cost us $ 675 more to enter such lands..The average hunter can not afford this ... the cost is a little extreme ... I would not mind paying a deposit for a key and getting back my money once I returned it .. Thats about as far as I go with it....

[dreamunelk]

On November 1968 the people of Washington State voted overwhelming (68%) to tax agricultural, timberlands, and other open spaces for actual use.  The concern was the loss of green space to development and therefore the loss of recreation value of these lands.  If you do your research and look at the advertisements, newspaper articles, and voter’s pamphlet they all claim public recreation value is a premise for the reduction in taxes.  I have attached a few.  This is not about government telling them what to do with their lands.  This is about increasing profits at the expense of the public.  Many of these landowners have closed their mills or the lands have been purchased for their long term income value.  Basically this is where the money is at and they are making money.   Now they are ignoring state law.  If you have a problem with them charging for access then call your county and state elected officials they are the ones who are supposed to enforce the state law.

If someone will explain how to insert an image I will add a few of newspaper advertisements I have located.

 

[logger]

On November 1968 the people of Washington State voted overwhelming (68%) to tax agricultural, timberlands, and other open spaces for actual use.  The concern was the loss of green space to development and therefore the loss of recreation value of these lands.  If you do your research and look at the advertisements, newspaper articles, and voter’s pamphlet they all claim public recreation value is a premise for the reduction in taxes.  I have attached a few.  This is not about government telling them what to do with their lands.  This is about increasing profits at the expense of the public.  Many of these landowners have closed their mills or the lands have been purchased for their long term income value.  Basically this is where the money is at and they are making money.   Now they are ignoring state law.  If you have a problem with them charging for access then call your county and state elected officials they are the ones who are supposed to enforce the state law.

If someone will explain how to insert an image I will add a few of newspaper advertisements I have located.

 Not trying to be a smart ass, just lookin to learn something here, Does this law also apply to the guy with 30 acres that is taxed as timberland,does he have to allow public access also?

[dreamunelk]

Depends on how you read the rules.  I am trying to write a more detailed summary.  As I read it anything greater than 20 acres that meet certain criteria.  There is a reference to continuous lands. Overall counties have cut really dropped the ball in their planning and issued tax break where they should not be.  There is a few re writes that address hobby farms and smaller acreages that I am still trying to decipher.  As an example look a the multi million dollar home on five acres.  A small portion holds a house.  The rest hold a 200k horse barn that is taxed very low.  I have a small cabin and I pay more taxes than the guy down the street who s horse live in better housing than me.     I would say it depends on where you property is.  Just hang up a sign that says trespassing by written permission only and you are covered I bet.  After all, you have a say on who uses your property.   I think you only have a problem when charging for public recreation.  No place does it say you have to allow tweekers, garbage dumpers, felons, and general human garbage. 

I think I have the attachment thing figures out.

[logger]

I guess it could be interpeted a hundred ways,what comes to mind is the larger family owned tree farms that are getting taxed the same as rayonier, I would think they should be treated the same. thanks for the info.

[fireweed]

Farm Land and timberland are different classifications with different justifications for lower tax rates.  Farmland requires income per acre and is audited regularly.  (boarding horses, growing hay, selling cattle, crops for sale all count).  Farmers aren't getting a lower tax rate for public recreation, wildlife habitat, etc. like timber is.  Timber 5-20 acres requires a county approved forest plan to be classified lower.  This plan does not require public access, but the land must be used primarily for commercial forestry.  This is how Weyco. can get by with their "forest reserve" developments. They pay on one acre out for a house, and write a plan for the other acres.  Anything over 20 acres in commercial trees doesn't need a plan: it's simply designated forestland.  Most of the public benefits outlined in the law (wildlife habitat, clean water& air, less erosion, replanting) are covered by the state's forest practice laws which require buffers on streams, leave trees, good roads etc.  "scenic and recreational spaces" is not addressed in forest practice laws, but it is ID'ed as one of the public benefits justifying lower tax rates.   By charging for public recreation, after receiving a portion of their lower tax for public recreation, is the same as them charging the state for wildlife habitat (one of the other public benefits).  How would citizens react if they received a bill for each elk on tree farm land?   Yes, it's private property. And their is a probably a place for exclusive pay-entry hunts on timberland, but you simply cannot deny that there is a lower overall public benefit when they charge for entry.  Since their public benefit is lower, their tax rate should be adjusted accordingly.  Companies that do not charge should be rewarded with a lower rate, not lumped in with the profiteers.

[Humptulips]

As soon as the tax breaks are gone, you will see massive clear cutting and big for sale signs on what was once tree growing ground. Every landowner in the state big or small can  have there land classified as timber or open space, It's not really the big tax break you guy's think it is, Timber co. has instances of what we call a taking of property in which because a new law was passed what could have been logged 5 years ago they can't now but yet the co. invested money in planting back the trees and maintaing the trees but will see know return on the trees, then they can get a tax break on that ground just like anybody else. It cost lottsa money to maintain the roads and when the snow run run off washes out roads, your talkin big money. Way better than the forest circus when they have a problem road they just close it.

Geez, you must not look around when you're out in the woods. The massive clearcutting and for sale signs are already happening. The public taking of property via buffer strips and leave trees as in RMZs is equally applied to non-tree farm land. Don't kid yourself the tax breaks are big.
Ok so I understand the road thing but they keep the roads  for their own benefit not for a few hunters.
I'm a logger and have owned timberland just not now so I think I know a little about what you say. Don't see it the same way though.

[Humptulips]

WDFW could nip this right in the bud if they wanted to. Hunting on forest land is really a benefit to the timber companies. Wildlife does a lot of damage to the trees and the roads.Hunting and trapping helps to minimize this damage. WDFW could tell them if you charge for access, next time you apply for a damage control permit forget it. It will never happen.
Rayonier would change their tune in a minute.
Of course WDFW will never do it.

[bearpaw]

I have about 30 acres of timberland and it is taxed as timberland, if it was taxed at a higher rate I would probably have to break it in 5 acre pieces and devolop it to make it pay. Higher taxes would not be supported by keeping it in timberland.

[YellowDog]

WDFW could nip this right in the bud if they wanted to. Hunting on forest land is really a benefit to the timber companies. Wildlife does a lot of damage to the trees and the roads.Hunting and trapping helps to minimize this damage. WDFW could tell them if you charge for access, next time you apply for a damage control permit forget it. It will never happen.
Rayonier would change their tune in a minute.
Of course WDFW will never do it.

What animal damages logging roads?  I have never heard of this before.

Keep in mind that the animals need open space/timberland for food, cover, bedding, breeding, calving, etc.  If there is non incentive for timber companies to log and re-plant and/or manage their lands for timber, A TON of habitat would be lost because timber land would be sold off as soon as it was clear cut.  Timber land over a certain number of acres (40, 50?) has to have a timber management plan on file and there are costs for having those prepared as well as paying for foresters, etc. to keep the timber land designation and lower tax.  Taking away the tax break is a 

[pianoman9701]

Bears cause damage on timber land and there are special permits for those. There are several damage hunts for elk on timber lands. I agree that if this land isn't offered to the hunters of the state equally, or at least by special permit (without the extra $225), they should lose their tax incentives. I have to pay my taxes because i don't offer any special benefit to the residents of the state. They should, too.

As far as threatening to clear cut and re-plant is concerned, aren't timber companies required to replant within a certain number of years? Aren't their clear cuts done under fairly strict federal and state guidelines?

[YellowDog]

I know about damage caused by some animals (bear, elk, etc.) I was specifically asking about damage to ROADS based on the portion of Humptulips post "Wildlife does a lot of damage to the trees and the roads."

You are probably right about the requirements of timber companies to replant and that basically proves my point.  They pay less in taxes to offset the COST of making sure the trees are replanted and the forest is managed not only for their pocket books but for the benefit of the wildlife.  I'm telling you if you take away the tax break you would see more and more land just sold off and lost to development than we already have.  If you think our game populations suck now, you would not like to see what would happen then. 

Also, do you think that a guy like Bearpaw with his 30 acres should have to allow you to hunt his land too since his 30 acres of timberland is taxed at a lower rate.  Like he said, if he didn't get the break, he would have to sell it off for development purposes and that land would be lost forever for our game animals. 

Timber companies and private property owners of timber land that are getting a tax break are already providing a benefit to the citizens of the state by keeping their land undeveloped so that animals have places to hide, eat, breed, sleep, and raise their young. 

[Sumpnneedskillin]

Around here you see coyotes and badgers digging in the road