talked to a biologist today who said we need wolves

[Sporting_Man]

Back to the center of the topic: that idiot biologist should kow that wolves do not like to kill and eat sick and old... they kill best and fattest animals in the herd. I know that for sure, and all sheperds and cattlemen can confirm this.
I hate conspiracy theories, but this look like really well thought one... Wolves are the best possible agent to destroy herds of any kind. And he said that we will not allow the same to happen here (like Idaho). Well, three years waiting period after the quota of desired breeding pairs is met, that is exactly what happened in Idaho... Good bye elk and muleys. 

[Wacenturion]

This is my  , I think a properly managed wolf population could be good for washington hunting. You dont see wolf packs going into herds and killing the biggest trophy bulls, they will cull the weak sick ones from the herd, leaving it stronger future reprodution. i am sure none of us want to wast our hard erned bull tag on a sickly small one, i want a trophy. well unfortunatly that sickly boy is going to be around next year to knock a cow up and just like with humans weak parents make weak kids, and the cycle continues. 

Amazing that this line of thought still persist.  This could NOT be further from the truth.  Turn off the Animal Plant channel and check out what wolves do in the real world.   

Got that right!  Animal planet mentality for sure on the opposing side.  All emotional drivel, nothing of sustenance.  What's next...Al Gore for wolves.

[huntinguy]

a little talk with a biologist and I learned that wolves make elk pack in larger herds. My immediate question was what about a disease that breaks out... say like hoof rot that is in Montana... his answer... We don't know yet... I asked what happens when wolves decide people are fat, slow and tasty. His answer, wolves don't eat people, those a hybrid animals that do that.... but on further questioning... I found out that he is a "wolf" biologist....

now, not to pick on anyone... if ones job depends on something... what is the chance they will make sure that something stays around....
  after inflation.

[luvtohnt]

Boot hunting just won't get it done, the success percentage will never catch up to the kitten survival rate.

So out of curiosity what is the kitten survival rate in WA? (Provide documentation as well please, I would like to read it for myself)

As far as wolves, and what they target, Run was spot on. It is hard though because the sick and dying will always be the first to go, and that is were the broad statement comes from I assume. I will get to experience first hand this October how much damage the wolves have done in Wyoming, I don' t think it will be near what it has in Idaho or Montana. I just hope in the end we can see some positive to the decision to let them reestablish in this state.

Brandon

[3nails]

Boot hunting just won't get it done, the success percentage will never catch up to the kitten survival rate.

So out of curiosity what is the kitten survival rate in WA? (Provide documentation as well please, I would like to read it for myself)

As far as wolves, and what they target, Run was spot on. It is hard though because the sick and dying will always be the first to go, and that is were the broad statement comes from I assume. I will get to experience first hand this October how much damage the wolves have done in Wyoming, I don' t think it will be near what it has in Idaho or Montana. I just hope in the end we can see some positive to the decision to let them reestablish in this state.

Brandon

That's just a big fat negative there. Wolves have actually been witnessed AVOIDING sickly animals and going for the healthier. They are smart animals. A pack that is in a game rich area and well fed will kill even when not hungry just to lap blood. Kind of like when a bear first starts fishing he eats the whole fish. But as the season progressess and he's had his fill, he switches to eating just the skin or roe.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Boot hunting just won't get it done, the success percentage will never catch up to the kitten survival rate.

So out of curiosity what is the kitten survival rate in WA? (Provide documentation as well please, I would like to read it for myself)

As far as wolves, and what they target, Run was spot on. It is hard though because the sick and dying will always be the first to go, and that is were the broad statement comes from I assume. I will get to experience first hand this October how much damage the wolves have done in Wyoming, I don' t think it will be near what it has in Idaho or Montana. I just hope in the end we can see some positive to the decision to let them reestablish in this state.

Brandon

That's just a big fat negative there. Wolves have actually been witnessed AVOIDING sickly animals and going for the healthier. They are smart animals. A pack that is in a game rich area and well fed will kill even when not hungry just to lap blood. Kind of like when a bear first starts fishing he eats the whole fish. But as the season progressess and he's had his fill, he switches to eating just the skin or roe.

I agree with 3 nails ...the theory of them just killing the sickest and weakest animals in total BS.. and I am not totally against the wolf thing BUT IT NEEDS SERIOUS POPULATION MANAGEMENT ..

[300UltraMagShooter]

a little talk with a biologist and I learned that wolves make elk pack in larger herds. My immediate question was what about a disease that breaks out... say like hoof rot that is in Montana...

This is another total bs assumption that many hunters have made.  Elk and other deer (whitetail) have herded/yarded up for as long as they have been around.  There again we end up with someone saying some that sounds "plausable" and before long it becomes "science".  There is no real science that shows an increase in disease.... And yes, I know about the so called "studies" in some of the Universities... to call them "studies" is a stretch to say the least.


I agree with the rest of your statement however.  And, when it comes to farmers, ranchers, hunters and biologist, I'll take the knowledge/expertise/credentials of the later three over the "biologist" all day long.   

[BOWHUNTER45]

a little talk with a biologist and I learned that wolves make elk pack in larger herds. My immediate question was what about a disease that breaks out... say like hoof rot that is in Montana...

This is another total bs assumption that many hunters have made.  Elk and other deer (whitetail) have herded/yarded up for as long as they have been around.  There again we end up with someone saying some that sounds "plausable" and before long it becomes "science".  There is no real science that shows an increase in disease.... And yes, I know about the so called "studies" in some of the Universities... to call them "studies" is a stretch to say the least.


I agree with the rest of your statement however.  And, when it comes to farmers, ranchers, hunters and biologist, I'll take the knowledge/expertise/credentials of the later three over the "biologist" all day long.   

yeah this type sheet pi$$$ me off too ... they act like hunters no nothing and all we care about is killing ...hunters are in the field more than any of them so that being said they need to rethink there way of thinking...that make sense?

[runamuk]

Boot hunting just won't get it done, the success percentage will never catch up to the kitten survival rate.

So out of curiosity what is the kitten survival rate in WA? (Provide documentation as well please, I would like to read it for myself)

As far as wolves, and what they target, Run was spot on. It is hard though because the sick and dying will always be the first to go, and that is were the broad statement comes from I assume. I will get to experience first hand this October how much damage the wolves have done in Wyoming, I don' t think it will be near what it has in Idaho or Montana. I just hope in the end we can see some positive to the decision to let them reestablish in this state.

Brandon

That's just a big fat negative there. Wolves have actually been witnessed AVOIDING sickly animals and going for the healthier. They are smart animals. A pack that is in a game rich area and well fed will kill even when not hungry just to lap blood. Kind of like when a bear first starts fishing he eats the whole fish. But as the season progressess and he's had his fill, he switches to eating just the skin or roe.

Brandon actually was agreeing with what you are saying  he was not supporting the sick and weak theory he said it is used to support the agenda....wolves target easy prey which is often healthy prey but also often disadvantaged prey that is singled out or alone so realistically wolves are much more likely to target small bull herds than massive cow herds....making the whole only kill sick and weak a fallacy...the sick and weak will be killed because they are easy targets but they arent the only ones killed.  the killing to lap blood alone is on the other end of the exaggeration spectrum real wolf behavior falls in the middle.

[huntinguy]

a little talk with a biologist and I learned that wolves make elk pack in larger herds. My immediate question was what about a disease that breaks out... say like hoof rot that is in Montana...

This is another total bs assumption that many hunters have made.  Elk and other deer (whitetail) have herded/yarded up for as long as they have been around.  There again we end up with someone saying some that sounds "plausable" and before long it becomes "science".  There is no real science that shows an increase in disease.... And yes, I know about the so called "studies" in some of the Universities... to call them "studies" is a stretch to say the least.


I agree with the rest of your statement however.  And, when it comes to farmers, ranchers, hunters and biologist, I'll take the knowledge/expertise/credentials of the later three over the "biologist" all day long.   

the key phrase was "Larger", what he said they saw in the study, it was several years long, was the smaller groups of less than 15 (or something close to that number) animals move into larger groups.

As some diseases animals get are contagious, the question was, what does that do to the overall health of the herd. They don't know yet....

The other thing he said, that seemed odd to me, was the elk moved in to more remote areas when the wolves showed up... I don't understand that one....

[BOWHUNTER45]

a little talk with a biologist and I learned that wolves make elk pack in larger herds. My immediate question was what about a disease that breaks out... say like hoof rot that is in Montana...

This is another total bs assumption that many hunters have made.  Elk and other deer (whitetail) have herded/yarded up for as long as they have been around.  There again we end up with someone saying some that sounds "plausable" and before long it becomes "science".  There is no real science that shows an increase in disease.... And yes, I know about the so called "studies" in some of the Universities... to call them "studies" is a stretch to say the least.


I agree with the rest of your statement however.  And, when it comes to farmers, ranchers, hunters and biologist, I'll take the knowledge/expertise/credentials of the later three over the "biologist" all day long.   

the key phrase was "Larger", what he said they saw in the study, it was several years long, was the smaller groups of less than 15 (or something close to that number) animals move into larger groups.

As some diseases animals get are contagious, the question was, what does that do to the overall health of the herd. They don't know yet....

The other thing he said, that seemed odd to me, was the elk moved in to more remote areas when the wolves showed up... I don't understand that one....

Seriously ....Man I best go back to school ...

[Greyson]

We need to let the game biologists manage the animals scientifically.  Cattlemen, timber companies, P.E.T.A., H.S.U.S., A.L.F. and all the other special interest groups have their agendas and get in the way of proper wildlife management.  Predator/prey numbers will find equilibrium. 
So I am not misunderstood, I look forward to hunting wolves when their numbers are stable. Wolves are neither good nor are they bad, they are predators, like coyotes, cougars and us.  Don't let doom and gloom scenarios carry the day. 

[windygorge]

We need to let the game biologists manage the animals scientifically.  Cattlemen, timber companies, P.E.T.A., H.S.U.S., A.L.F. and all the other special interest groups have their agendas and get in the way of proper wildlife management.  Predator/prey numbers will find equilibrium. 
So I am not misunderstood, I look forward to hunting wolves when their numbers are stable. Wolves are neither good nor are they bad, they are predators, like coyotes, cougars and us.  Don't let doom and gloom scenarios carry the day.

  amen brotha.  could not have said it better, nor can most on here. 

[CedarPants]

We need to let the game biologists manage the animals scientifically.  Cattlemen, timber companies, P.E.T.A., H.S.U.S., A.L.F. and all the other special interest groups have their agendas and get in the way of proper wildlife management.  Predator/prey numbers will find equilibrium. 
So I am not misunderstood, I look forward to hunting wolves when their numbers are stable. Wolves are neither good nor are they bad, they are predators, like coyotes, cougars and us.  Don't let doom and gloom scenarios carry the day.

I'm not sure how you can slap cattlemen in the face like that and lump them in with likes of P.E.T.A..  They don't have an agenda, they have a livelihood.  Big difference partner

[NWWABOWHNTR]

We need to let the game biologists manage the animals scientifically.  Cattlemen, timber companies, P.E.T.A., H.S.U.S., A.L.F. and all the other special interest groups have their agendas and get in the way of proper wildlife management.  Predator/prey numbers will find equilibrium. 
So I am not misunderstood, I look forward to hunting wolves when their numbers are stable. Wolves are neither good nor are they bad, they are predators, like coyotes, cougars and us.  Don't let doom and gloom scenarios carry the day.

Gloom and Doom, just look next door at Idaho and see what has happened there.