TO FORCE FETCH OR NOT TO FORCE FETCH? THAT IS THE QUESTION

[Happy Gilmore]

I've never let a bird lie to ot simply because my dog didn't mark it! But my dog regulary makes invisible retrieves and has never been force fetch trained! He knows how to hunt back and left to right! Never had a problem.

If I put a bird out at 200 yards in the cat-tails with a 150 yard swim you're telling me you can walk up and your dog will handle to the bird?

[Fowlweather25]

200 yards? Jesus! What kindof duck hunter are you? Sky bust much? My gun is only good to about 50 yards bud! And I've worked to about 100 yards or so! No need to go any farther!

[Happy Gilmore]

200 yards? Jesus! What kindof duck hunter are you? Sky bust much? My gun is only good to about 50 yards bud! And I've worked to about 100 yards or so! No need to go any farther!

Ok, you win. Your dog is better and you are a better duck hunter than me.

[rtspring]

I knew this one was gonna turn ugly..  To each is his own. I was just stating I never had to F/F a dog and I have had two that I would run up against any dog out there. Sure there could be a circumstance where a 200 yard retireve is needed. But I can still get the job done without F/F my dogs...

good luck hunting,

PS, I will ddamn near die before I leavea downed bird to rot..  See the goose story I put up on this site.. Three days I looked for the damn thing.....

RTSPRING

[Fowlweather25]

Not saying I'm better or my dog is better, but Ive never had a need for that extreme of a retrieve out of my dog!

[Happy Gilmore]

I knew this one was gonna turn ugly..  To each is his own. I was just stating I never had to F/F a dog and I have had two that I would run up against any dog out there. Sure there could be a circumstance where a 200 yard retireve is needed. But I can still get the job done without F/F my dogs...

good luck hunting,

PS, I will ddamn near die before I leavea downed bird to rot..  See the goose story I put up on this site.. Three days I looked for the damn thing.....

RTSPRING

I tried to keep it to my opinion but, that is difficult sometimes. I would say there are some natural retrievers and some people have had good success not FFing their dogs and training via the Robert Milner materials which is actually decent for a good duck dog.

http://www.duckhillkennels.com/dogs/gundogs.php

[Happy Gilmore]

Not saying I'm better or my dog is better, but Ive never had a need for that extreme of a retrieve out of my dog!

I started training dogs because of that need. Hunting on the Columbia at Wallula, Finley, John Day and up at Bridgeport Brewster. All big water and good current. By the time a dog picks up one bird, your second bird is long gone. Puts demands on the dog to make long retrieves. It only gets harder with the more hunters dropping more ducks.

Not to mention, cripples that lock up and glide out. I'm not a perfect shot by any means and wing birds. I'm no sky buster. Most of the time I hunt my lease so, I have no reason to sky bust.

[JLS]

No matter how good the dog, will it really hurt them to do FF training?  Maybe they'll function OK without it, but I don't think it will hurt even the best dog to have the training.

I didn't do it with my dog, and wish that I had.

[hillbillyhunting]

I dont want to thread jack, but what is force fetch.  I am interested because I rescued a lab the vet told me was about 3 yrs old.  He had no manners.  I had to teach him the word "no".    He loves to retrieve over water, but will only go pounce on the object when on land.  Also, when he retrieves over water he usually drops the object at the shoreline. 

THanks in advance for filling me in...

[BIGINNER]

i'll let someone else answer your question because i won't do as good of a job,..

one more question to add on to my original one: should I forcefetch my dog or am i better off not force fetching him myself?

[CP]

i'll let someone else answer your question because i won't do as good of a job,..

one more question to add on to my original one: should I forcefetch my dog or am i better off not force fetching him myself?

Don’t do it yourself, it’s a job for a professional.

[Fowlweather25]

Force fetch if done wrong can ruin your dog! If you've never done it you're best off taking your dog to someone who has experience.

[Happy Gilmore]

I dont want to thread jack, but what is force fetch.  I am interested because I rescued a lab the vet told me was about 3 yrs old.  He had no manners.  I had to teach him the word "no".    He loves to retrieve over water, but will only go pounce on the object when on land.  Also, when he retrieves over water he usually drops the object at the shoreline. 

THanks in advance for filling me in...

Three years old makes it a bit (sometimes a lot)more difficult. It is best done right after they get the adult teeth in 100% and are not showing any signs of soreness in their mouth. If you can teach the dog to hold by placing something in his mouth, keeping his mouth closed around it...repeat for 5-10 minutes 2X a day and get to the point where he will hold the object and walk around on lead I say you can probably FF him. It is the common "fix" for lack of better terms for the problems you've described.

The basic concept is that once you've taught hold you then introduce pressure to him via uncomfortable stimulation. This can be a e-collar for some, pinching an ear, pulling on a toe with a string hitch. The command "fetch" is given and when the dog has the object(dowel or bumper) in his mouth you stop the stimulation. Sometimes it is a real bear, other dogs get it real easy. Some dogs take little stimulation, others take a lot. This is where reading the dog comes into play and why it's a good idea to always do it the first time with a pro.(if you want to do it yourself at least have someone walk you through it and be on hand)

It isn't a torture chamber when done correctly. It is you and the dog coming to the mutual understanding that you make the rules, you enforce the rules and you also distribute the praise for a job well done.

FF is just another tool in the bigger picture of making a reliable retriever. 99% of all Professional retriever trainers will agree that without a solid FF foundation, you'll really have many, many more difficulties advancing your training in other areas. I do not personally know ANY professional retriever trainers who do not FF every single dog who comes in for training. 99% of the time, the first thing they'll do is get the dog accostomed to the kennel routine and then it's time for the most unpleasant part of a retrievers life. A week or two of FF.

[Lee Root]

 I force fetch all of my Drahthaars.  In the tests they are run in, you get to tell the dog fetch one time when sent on retrieves. You can encourage the dog on it's return if he/she is behaving, but if you try to correct bad behavior you fail the test.  So they have to do blind retrieves, a rabbit retrieve for a rabbit that has been dragged 300 meters, and other retrieves. At the end of all of the retrieves you get to tell your dog to "sit" once and then an "out" command.  That is it. 

Force fetch also means that wing tipped chukars such as this one was are returned to me even if they have sailed and run down the nastiest rock filled hillside as this one did.  Usually Addy sits, but this time she got away with a rest and is lying down on the retrieve since this bird came back to me after one such long retrieve.




Bottom line is that the retrieve of upland game and waterfowl should be as important as the work the dog does before the shot.  I like a retrieve with manners on my dogs and I do it with the force fetch.  My dogs have frequently brought back game to me that I have never shot that was left by other hunters.

[Shannon]

I think FF is a good thing. I run in test like Lee where the retrieve is scored and has to be perfect. FF is the only way I can guarrantee a perfect retrieve every time. Watch Evan Graham's Smart Fetch videos and read the books. I think anyone with some ability to read there dog could FF there dog after using his methods. I don't think its a requirement for the average hunting dog but I think it gives you tools that you'll be glad you have and it gives you a greater relationship with the dog after going through the process. Nothing negative about it if done right on the average dog. I'll do it on every dog I will ever own from here on out. A great natural retrieve is even better after FF IMO.