Free: Contests & Raffles.
Ha! I was joking the other day about when the time will come that we have to draw a permit for fishing "Quality River Native Steelhead permit".
There's a lot of factors involved in the wild steelhead decline. Harvest by all user groups is part of it I believe. For those of you that have to bonk your 1 wild fish, ask yourself this. How many wild fish have you kept in rivers that are now closed completely or closed to keeping them now. Look at the trend. Just something to think about.
My personal opinion, if the native steelhead is in such poor shape the WDFW would stop the bonking. YET, they still allow it. The Natives gillnet the heck out of the rivers and they do not see an issue or they would stop or use different type of nets. Don’t forget neither one of those groups care about the sea lions eating the fish. So until the two of these groups feel it needs attention I personally think it is not as big deal as many portray. I am just glad those two groups have hatchery's for me to catch those fish. As for my opinion on scientific studies, any data can be twisted and turned to whoever wants the values to come out they want it to. Look at the entire wolf model as an example. I do not have time to figure out who are the zealots in the issue of native fish verses hatchery fish.
. The Sea Lions is an interesting subject. They have always been here and always will be. Populations have risen dramatically over the past few decades and there is a growing concern about their take in the sportfish market. Take for example the amount of White Sturgeon they eat at Bonneville Dam. It would be nice for them to step up and have a few controlled hunts to thin numbers, although the public outcry would be substantial.
Quote from: TheHunt on February 10, 2012, 06:25:08 PMMy personal opinion, if the native steelhead is in such poor shape the WDFW would stop the bonking. YET, they still allow it. The Natives gillnet the heck out of the rivers and they do not see an issue or they would stop or use different type of nets. Don’t forget neither one of those groups care about the sea lions eating the fish. So until the two of these groups feel it needs attention I personally think it is not as big deal as many portray. I am just glad those two groups have hatchery's for me to catch those fish. As for my opinion on scientific studies, any data can be twisted and turned to whoever wants the values to come out they want it to. Look at the entire wolf model as an example. I do not have time to figure out who are the zealots in the issue of native fish verses hatchery fish.They still allow native harvest because of people like you who just have to bonk fish or you will take your money elsewhere. If more people were management minded and would rather fish for sport other than sustenance with Steelhead this wouldnt be an issue. They cant change the natives gillnetting, there is a treaty and millions of miles of political bull*censored* to change before that happens. The Sea Lions is an interesting subject. They have always been here and always will be. Populations have risen dramatically over the past few decades and there is a growing concern about their take in the sportfish market. Take for example the amount of White Sturgeon they eat at Bonneville Dam. It would be nice for them to step up and have a few controlled hunts to thin numbers, although the public outcry would be substantial.Comparing these studies to the wolf model is like comparing apples to a car. They are completely different in every aspect. You can see the public having issues with the wolf population before they are at management goals. You do not see the public saying there are plenty of Steelhead before management goals. I dont see how the WDFW could twist this data in their favor if they tried, while still implementing management practices. Why would they twist the data to show there are more fish than there are while implementing population increasing management practices while the public still sees no increase? This makes zero sense any way you spin it because of WDFW's actions. There are no zealots. WDFW implemented hatcheries as a way to replenish fish lost due to the construction of the dams and over fishing. Over time they have realized due to numerous studies and field research that hatchery fish are worse for the system as a whole due to degradation of native fish populations. They are now attempting to fix these issues by either removing hatcheries or implementing new hatchery practices like those at the Sol Duc. You have to remember, the WDFW's plan for the Steelhead is native fish recovery, not sport fishing.
Quote from: teal101 on February 11, 2012, 10:38:50 AM. The Sea Lions is an interesting subject. They have always been here and always will be. Populations have risen dramatically over the past few decades and there is a growing concern about their take in the sportfish market. Take for example the amount of White Sturgeon they eat at Bonneville Dam. It would be nice for them to step up and have a few controlled hunts to thin numbers, although the public outcry would be substantial.from my understanding sealions were not in the Columbia river until the damns, so they haven't always been here. i don't know the significance of what they do to the salmon and steelhead but i know they are destroying the sturgeon
Totally disagree with all your comments. There are many books out there that show how history was recorded and what actually recorded. I make NO impact to the fishing of WDFW if I take my money some where else. I just started fishing last October so how would my comment shake the foundation of funding of WDFW? I personally do not see it. Ahhh the wolf study.. That is apples to apples if you would consider that there are Zealots in the Wolf introductions. I have read thread after thread on the wolf topic. The wolf Zealots do not care about the data and they willfully ignore data. So I contest there are Zealots in this fish debate. They could be the Tribes, fly fishermen, elitest fishermen, or tree huggers. Your comment regarding the WDFW plan for the Steelhead is native fish recovery, not sport fishing. I am a NEW sport fishermen as I want to catch fish like all new fishermen like to do. Now answer the question: If the WDFW does not support sport fishing why would this make sense to me? To me, the WDFW would NEED to have many rivers with hatcheries for the sport fishing in mind. Look at the Methow for the fishing, people can go over and fish and carefully let the fish go. The Sol Duc can be the same. One on the East side and one on the West side. I am all for it... Quote from: teal101 on February 11, 2012, 10:38:50 AMQuote from: TheHunt on February 10, 2012, 06:25:08 PMMy personal opinion, if the native steelhead is in such poor shape the WDFW would stop the bonking. YET, they still allow it. The Natives gillnet the heck out of the rivers and they do not see an issue or they would stop or use different type of nets. Don’t forget neither one of those groups care about the sea lions eating the fish. So until the two of these groups feel it needs attention I personally think it is not as big deal as many portray. I am just glad those two groups have hatchery's for me to catch those fish. As for my opinion on scientific studies, any data can be twisted and turned to whoever wants the values to come out they want it to. Look at the entire wolf model as an example. I do not have time to figure out who are the zealots in the issue of native fish verses hatchery fish.They still allow native harvest because of people like you who just have to bonk fish or you will take your money elsewhere. If more people were management minded and would rather fish for sport other than sustenance with Steelhead this wouldnt be an issue. They cant change the natives gillnetting, there is a treaty and millions of miles of political bull*censored* to change before that happens. The Sea Lions is an interesting subject. They have always been here and always will be. Populations have risen dramatically over the past few decades and there is a growing concern about their take in the sportfish market. Take for example the amount of White Sturgeon they eat at Bonneville Dam. It would be nice for them to step up and have a few controlled hunts to thin numbers, although the public outcry would be substantial.Comparing these studies to the wolf model is like comparing apples to a car. They are completely different in every aspect. You can see the public having issues with the wolf population before they are at management goals. You do not see the public saying there are plenty of Steelhead before management goals. I dont see how the WDFW could twist this data in their favor if they tried, while still implementing management practices. Why would they twist the data to show there are more fish than there are while implementing population increasing management practices while the public still sees no increase? This makes zero sense any way you spin it because of WDFW's actions. There are no zealots. WDFW implemented hatcheries as a way to replenish fish lost due to the construction of the dams and over fishing. Over time they have realized due to numerous studies and field research that hatchery fish are worse for the system as a whole due to degradation of native fish populations. They are now attempting to fix these issues by either removing hatcheries or implementing new hatchery practices like those at the Sol Duc. You have to remember, the WDFW's plan for the Steelhead is native fish recovery, not sport fishing.
Nothing has changed my argument still stands... I have only been fishing since last October. I am good to go as long as I have a place to fish, I can bonk them and take them home. Ignorant yes, Zealot NO! <Humor> HA HA HA you will have to sell that to someone else as I am not buying any of that... Heck you might be one of them Zealots for all that I know. You might be one of them folks who says fish have feeling too and they cry when you hook them in the mouth. </Humor> I will stay ignorant for a while. I do not have time to read up all the fishing crap to determine who is who in the zoo. Will I get to it? YES, but my first objective is to learn to catch the darn things legally. If I cannot catch them than I should give up and find something else to do during the hunting off season. Lately I have been spending all my time: 1. trying to figure out the access points, deciphering the regs, finding the locations which fish hold up on the Wynoochee river.2. how to successfully catch fish when I go fishing. This is the most complicated part of fishing for me. I have read many books and I am starting to feel confident in figuring out were the fish are at in the river. 3. putting in for out of state elk hunts.Once I start catching them and feel confident in my ability I can than spend some time reading about the fishery and how messed up or hopless, or what ever it is.
I never said, nor has the WDFW, that the WDFW does not support sport fishing. What I said is that the WDFW's main goal is native fish recovery. Everything else will take a back seat to the native fish recovery goals. The WDFW obviously supports sport fishing by allowing you a season Their main goal, fish, bird, or big game, is management of the resource so we all have an opportunity at harvest or sightseeing dependent upon our venue. The Methow and the Sol Duc are VERY different rivers. Again I implore you to take up some reading on this subject. You will begin to understand why the Methow is a poor choice for a wild Steelhead recovery river and why the Sol Duc is a great choice. Furthermore, you can still fish the Sol Duc, catch as many as you want, and carefully release them, I fail to see where your argument is here. First you want to bonk as many fish as you can, now you want to catch and release carefully wild fish. Make up your mind, your argument lacks cohesion.
